TrackIR: Is it a "Must Have?"

[JughedJughedJones]

So, I just bought into this sim. I am absolutely loving it so far. As an FSX addict, these flight models are absolutely blowing me away. 

 

I played the OG Il-2 years ago and that made me realize what I love about video games. Damage, immersion, flight, "believing you're there."

 

So, the question is: 1. Do I need a TrackIR to make this worth it?  2. Do any of the really good pilots in il-2 fly without it? 2a: If so how?

 

3: Do you have to wear a hat with a bunch of globes on your head if you use it?   3a: If so, do you feel silly?

Edited May 9, 2014 by JughedJones

[JGzbV_Manni]

1. yes

2. yes - but only in east-europe

2b. cooliehat

3. yes - or you can use http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-TrackClip-PRO.html

3b. sure i do - but its ok as iam not leaving my room with the stuff on my head - so its not that bad

[JughedJughedJones]

 http://www.naturalpo...ckClip-PRO.html

 

 

WOW!!!!!!

 

 

That makes me feel a lot better about the purchase!   My girlfriend-wife is pretty awesome. She let's me be pretty dorky with my hobbies, but wearing a big dumb hat with 

motion capture globes - I fear - would be going to far. 

 

That clip might save the day!   Awesome. 

 

But good god this hobby is expensive, isn't it?

 

 

Thanks a lot, Manni!

Edited May 9, 2014 by JughedJones

[snowsnipersnow_sniper]

you can use  freetrack which is a free alternative.

 

mine is quite easy and cheap. Just a webcam. Just a hatcap with 3 reflectives parts glued on it,

i cuted from a reflective cloth. And it works well, ....only  if i 'm nearly in the dark. no ir or things like that. I'm very happy of this cheap system.

 

Dogfight without such a system or a conventional trackir is quite impossible. You have to look quickly backward in your 6:00, above to prevent snap attack like zoom and boom, follow in a scissor your target ..... It's really easier with such a system.

 

 

 

[216th_Peterla]

TrackIR 5 + Track clip Pro=Totally recommended.

[JughedJughedJones]

What's a 'Coolie 

 

you can use  freetrack which is a free alternative.

 

mine is quite easy and cheap. Just a webcam. Just a hatcap with 3 reflectives parts glued on it,

i cuted from a reflective cloth. And it works well, ....only  if i 'm nearly in the dark. no ir or things like that. I'm very happy of this cheap system.

 

Dogfight without such a system or a conventional trackir is quite impossible. You have to look quickly backward in your 6:00, above to prevent snap attack like zoom and boom, follow in a scissor your target ..... It's really easier with such a system.

 

I learned that quickly in my first venture into multiplayer today.

 

I barely got into the clouds and I got zapped.  

 

That rig you got is pretty sweet SNS.  However, I think I'll spring for the regular track and clip.  I've already spent close to 800 bucks on my sim habit so far... why stop now?

 

I want to be as good as I can get at this.

[Desode]

I used to play with the mini mouse on my X52 and I was pretty good with it, so no you don't need it.

I upgraded to TIR about 3 years ago, and I could never go back to anything else.

 

It does take a little bit of adjusting to !  The first couple of days you will feel like it was a big mistake in spending the money on it.

By a weeks time , you will then be saying WOW !  how did I ever play a flight Sim without this thing !   LOL

 

I never cared for the Hat clip, I went to radio shack and bought some IR LEDs and put them on a ball cap.

Works Great , way better then the clip that comes with TIR. Cost me about $8 USD to make the hat.

 

I never feel silly , and if you Love flight Sims , you won't regret it at all

 

Best of Luck Sincerely Desode

Edited May 9, 2014 by Desode

[JughedJughedJones]

I used to play with the mini mouse on my X52 and I was pretty good with it, so no you don't need it.

I upgraded to TIR about 3 years ago, and I could never go back to anything else.

 

It does take a little bit of adjusting to !  The first couple of days you will feel like it was a big mistake in spending the money on it.

By a weeks time , you will then be saying WOW !  how did I ever play a flight Sim without this thing !   LOL

 

I never cared for the Hat clip, I went to radio shack and bought some IR LEDs and put them on a ball cap.

Works Great , way better then the clip that comes with TIR. Cost me about $8 USD to make the hat.

 

I never feel silly , and if you Love flight Sims , you won't regret it at all

 

Best of Luck Sincerely Desode

 

 

Word.  Thing is though.. I can't wear a ball cap. I have a really big head that's full of waist long dreadlocks.  I can't put a ball cap on my head. 

 

I feel like I would need the Pro clip.  Pretty happy that it's an option.  I could probably put it on anything, like a stocking cap or the like... right?

[Matt]

1. I wouldn't fly any flightsim without it anymore. It just adds a lot to the immersion.

3. I'm using the TrackClip Pro which is attached to my headset (i always use a headset anyway)

3a. Nope.

[JughedJughedJones]

I just took another look at the Pro clip..

 

 

You can put that on your Headset!!

 

 

Problem = Solved.  

1. I wouldn't fly any flightsim without it anymore. It just adds a lot to the immersion.

3. I'm using the TrackClip Pro which is attached to my headset (i always use a headset anyway)

3a. Nope.

 

 

Great timing!

[Feathered_IV]

TrackIR 5 + Track clip Pro=Totally recommended.

Quite right. What price dignity I say. Much better than those geek antlers.

[6high]

My best investment in flight simming since buying Il2 in 2001

....once you get it, you simply cannot do without.

Edited May 9, 2014 by 6high

[AbortedMan]

Note that the pro clip isn't necessary. The TrackIR comes with a metal reflective clip that just reflects the IR light the TrackIR projects, it works just as well and is $50 cheaper.

[Bearcat]

It is not a must have if you have a way of using mouse control on your stick.... but it adds to the immersion tremendously. I have been using TIR for years now and it is hard to beat. I use the hat and clip which I don't mind at all. You can set the sensitivity how uiu like/need it. The good thing about tIR especially TIR 5 is that it is less sensitive to ambient light. I have had TIR 1,3 and now 5 and TIR 5 is by far the smoothest, least susceptible to ambient light. Out of curiosity what kind of stick do you use and are you considering rudder pedals as well?

[Georgio]

So, I just bought into this sim. I am absolutely loving it so far. As an FSX addict, these flight models are absolutely blowing me away. 

 

I played the OG Il-2 years ago and that made me realize what I love about video games. Damage, immersion, flight, "believing you're there."

 

So, the question is: 1. Do I need a TrackIR to make this worth it?  2. Do any of the really good pilots in il-2 fly without it? 2a: If so how?

 

3: Do you have to wear a hat with a bunch of globes on your head if you use it?   3a: If so, do you feel silly?

 

I would say that to get the best out of any modern sim you need the flexibility to be able to look around the cockpit/simulated World.

Up until now TrackIR has provided a very capable, relatively cheap solution to this, however... there is a new kid on the block.

If you have not heard of Oculus Rift, then google it or look it up on YouTube.

This device and others will revolutionise gaming by making the view 3D and therefore as realistic as possible without actually being there.

Pretty strong stuff I know, but the reason why the Rift unit in particular will be so well suited for flight sims is purely because we sit in a chair/cockpit to do our thing and the unit makes that interchangability seamless.

Other games like first person shooters will also benefit but because they have to move characters via keyboard/pad some immersion is lost.

We move via the plane's movement which we control directly so the immersion will be 110%.

TrackIR/monitor's will still have a place for those that can't get on with the new technology but trust me, people are going to be blown away by VR technology when it gets mature enough to be able to dispense with the monitor for viewing.

 

I can't wait...

[BlitzPig_EL]

I would never attempt any flight sim without Track IR.  I use the Pro clip as well.

 

Another benefit of Track IR is that it frees up a hat switch on your controller that can be assigned to better uses.

 

Also I got a chuckle out of your initial exposure to real FMs.  This is what a flight sim is all about.  FS X is just a procedure simulator, there is a big difference.

Years ago a friend of mine, and one of my BlitzPig squadmates that works for the FAA and teaches real world aerobatics, sent me a copy of FS X for free.

It lasted about two weeks on my hard drive. 

 

It's OK if you want to learn ATC procedures, or just enjoy puttering around the sky for no real reason I suppose, but after experiencing sims that paid attention to actual flight physics and damage modeling it just fell flat.

[oneeyeddog]

I really can't imagine flying without TIR and if I were just starting to gather flight Sim hardware it would be my third purchase after a decent joystick and rudder pedals. Maybe even before rudder pedals if your comfortable and confident with using a twist joystick. My TIR has been virtually trouble free, easy to set up and reliable. The Trackclip Pro has a deserved reputation of being quite fragile and I personally know a few folks whose clips have broken. However NaturalPoint has had excellent customer service and i know folks who've had their clips replaced.

[smink1701]

Yes

[J2_Trupobaw]

Take good care of TrackClip Pro. I recommend it, but it's very very fragile at joints.
 

 

 However NaturalPoint has had excellent customer service and i know folks who've had their clips replaced.

Can you elaborate? I about to buy a replacement...

Edited May 9, 2014 by Trupobaw

[EmperorBobSaget]

Playing with and without TrackIR is like night and day, seriously. I freaking love this tool so much. I bought the TrackIR5 with the clip.

 

Here's the video by Dslyecxi giving a good breakdown of the product and what it can do. 

 

And he also has a link that gives you a coupon discount of $20 off!

http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/promo/promo_landing.html?promoname=dslyecxi-pro14

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

What's a 'Coolie 

 

 

I learned that quickly in my first venture into multiplayer today.

 

I barely got into the clouds and I got zapped.  

 

That rig you got is pretty sweet SNS.  However, I think I'll spring for the regular track and clip.  I've already spent close to 800 bucks on my sim habit so far... why stop now?

 

I want to be as good as I can get at this.

 

Having a bunch of equipment doesn't make a good pilot. It just means you can get sensory overloaded easier, have less of an idea of what's going on and (hopefully) line yourself up in my Revi a little better.

[BlueHeron]

I can't overstate how much TrackIR 5 adds to the experience.  

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

I never got in to sims until i bought the trackir v1 back in 2003.. After that i have had v3 and now v5. For me it has always been peripheral nr one.......

Highly recommended

[Steambat]

If I didn't have Track IR now, I wouldn't fly, its that simple. I use it for all flight sims I have (RoF, FSX, all the IL2 series) - nothing beats leaning forward into the gunsight to line up a target and still being able to have a quick glance over your shoulder!

 

You can adjust it to your preference but I think a lot people use Requiem's profile, either way you can get loads of help on this website because it's full of jolly nice people!!

[dburne]

If I didn't have Track IR now, I wouldn't fly, its that simple. I use it for all flight sims I have (RoF, FSX, all the IL2 series) - nothing beats leaning forward into the gunsight to line up a target and still being able to have a quick glance over your shoulder!

 

You can adjust it to your preference but I think a lot people use Requiem's profile, either way you can get loads of help on this website because it's full of jolly nice people!!

 

I feel exactly the same, no way would I fly any of my flight sims without Track IR5.

I consider it as essential as my HOTAS setup.

[FuriousMeow]

There's people who insist that the best "pilots" in RoF don't use TrackIr. I don't think it really matters, there are those that are just as good with TrackIr as there are those that use hats only.

 

I didn't use it until v5, picked it up after RoF came out. I don't know exactly when I bought it, but I spent years just using a trackball rigged up to my joystick so my thumb could control my viewpoint like with a hat. TrackIr does make it a lot easier using the strafe/zoom/height adjustment a lot quicker and more naturally without delays, so that is a plus over just a mouse or joystick hat.

[smink1701]

• I played without TrackIr for years and still enjoyed flight simming but read all the posts that said it makes a HUGE differecne.  Well, it does.  If you want your flying immersion experience to go from a 7 to an 11 (Spinal Tap levels!), TIR is well worth the modest investment.

[Requiem]

TrackIR isn't a must have, but if you prefer the feeling of being there it really can't be beaten...yet (I'm looking at you Oculus Rift). You may experience some trouble translating your actual head movement into the game, but persevere and it will begin to feel more natural. If you are the type who must win at all costs then just stick with snap views.

[C-Bag]

I was shocked how quickly I adapted to the TiR. It doesn't seem like it would be so natural but for me it was literally minutes of use and it was totally like being there. I can't even conceive of flying a sim without it. 

 

My gripe with it was the setup that comes with it that goes on the brim of a hat didn't work for me because the brim would occlude the receiver when I looked up. I might not have my flatscreen monitor as high as some.

 

But all that went away when I went to the pro and clipped it to my headphones. But the clip on the pro is a so so design and not very sturdy. And the whole unit is laughably fragile. It fell apart while I was trying to mount it to my headphones! It's taped back together and I leave it installed on my headphones so it's hanging in there. I just wish there was a sturdier option for the pro clip, like all metal or something.  I'd pay more for that.

[Rederick]

Question for you guys who use TIR.  I tried Freetrack with just my face for a few days.  Lets ignore that it wasn't as accurate and steady as I would of wanted, my biggest problem was.. I didn't realize how much I instinctively move my head around when flying!  All of these natural tendencies to move my head slightly during maneuvers ended up really frustrating me while i was behind someone. I always felt like i had to really tense up my neck and basically fight myself not to move at all so i wouldn't move my view around when trying to line up the guns!  Is this something you all experienced at first and learned to adjust to after that first week?

 

The other question, do any of you use TIR with a tripple monitor setup?  This i think in part is why it felt so odd to me, it was hard to find a sweet spot in the settings where looking side to side at the 2 other monitors synced up well with the vertical movements.  I also found myself seeing something on a side monitor out of the corner of my eye and when i would look over it would move to the center and so would i, back and forth.  After a lot of adjusting this was minimized but i could never get it to feel right...  

 

Any tips about these problems from anyone? Would TIR make a noticable difference from my experience with Freetrack?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Rederick

[Desode]

I will add that the reflective tape does not have the range that IR leds have. So Keep that in mind depending on your setup.

I have friends that have also made a clip for their headset cheap too, So you can do it either way on the cheap if you have a little building skill.

 

I play sitting in my recliner and my monitor is a 50 inch HDTV, So Im about 7-8 feet from the TV with the TIR on top of the TV.

The IR Leds really make a difference and I don't have to worry about the lighting in the room with also affects the reflective tape clips.

 

Desode

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Wow! Most people buy the sim and then the TrackIR.

What made you buy the TrackIR in the 1st place?

Well I DID buy a sim first... The original Il2 and then Il2 fb.. And I flew it but never got into it until I bought the TrackIr... Suddenly I had full SA... Which I never had before by using the mouse to look around..... Next step was to start F19.. And here we are...still

Both titles would be collecting dust on the shelf if i had'nt got it.. i am quite certain

 

Sorry.. Have to go.. Need to start up the La for the first time.... With the trackir

Edited May 9, 2014 by F19_Klunk

[Volkoff]

While Oculus Rift may one day be my choice head tracking gear, I am currently a Trackir 4 user. I am actually expecting my second Trackir 4 to be at my door, this evening. See, my first one recently malfunctioned, after many years of faithful service. While Oculus Rift may offer a far more emersive experience  than my trackir, my trackir is a known quantity. I know about how many years of use I can expect to get out of my trackir, unlike the Oculus Rift.

 

Also, compared to a Trackir 4, the Oculus Rift costs a relatively large sum of money. I would like to wait some years, before  purchasing an Oculus Rift, to see the price come down and let the Oculus develop a track record, so I can see if the Oculus is reliable enough to work for a number of years, before requiring the purchase of a newer version. Yes, I would recommend the trackir 4, for anyone looking to get a more emersive experience, than when using a hat switch, but not ready to commit to an Oculus Rift.  MJ 

[sturmkraehe]

You don't need TrackIR to become successfull. I played for months with coolie hat tracking (online) and when I switched to TrackIR and got used to it I did not feel more successfull than before. It's a matter of training.

 

However, TrackIR is just great because it is more "natural" and more immersive. So I would recommend it. I own mine for several years now and no failure. So over the years the price is not expensive.

[Sandhill]

It is of course possible (although perhaps not ideal in combat) to use a hat or keyboard to look around, but when you do, it's a bit like a slide show and does not "simulate" any real world experience very well.  Beyond that one of the big advantages of TIR is that it reduces your task burden.  Looking in the direction you want to see is natural vs thinking about moving a hat, and it frees your thumb to do other possibly important things.  Mostly, though, TrackIR is amazingly immersive.  The change to 3D space is, to me, well worth the price of admission.  To look down and to the left in RL and be looking down and to the left in the sim really does make you feel like you are there.  (I think that the other directions work, too).  I'm with Mikha on Oculus Rift...I'm an early adapter, but not THAT early...if you're flying this week TIR is a clear winner.

[Hollywood_]

So, I just bought into this sim. I am absolutely loving it so far. As an FSX addict, these flight models are absolutely blowing me away. 

 

I played the OG Il-2 years ago and that made me realize what I love about video games. Damage, immersion, flight, "believing you're there."

 

So, the question is: 1. Do I need a TrackIR to make this worth it?  2. Do any of the really good pilots in il-2 fly without it? 2a: If so how?

 

3: Do you have to wear a hat with a bunch of globes on your head if you use it?   3a: If so, do you feel silly?

 

I spend a good amount of time sitting in front of my computer flying these types of games and I love every second of it.

 

I did not used to have TrackIR and I thought I was holding my own pretty well with left hand on my stick and right on my mouse to pan around,

 

I got by pretty well and I had a friend (Aborted Man) talk me into buying the trackIR, needless to say I can't imagine ever flying with out it ever again.

 

If my TrackIR for some reason were to break right here right now I wouldn't play Combat sims until I was able to order and receive a new one, that's how much of a game changer that little piece of hardware is...

 

 

And ask for the expensiveness of this hobby... Cheerio lol, but it's a great hobby

Edited May 9, 2014 by Hollywood126

[Georgio]

Word.  Thing is though.. I can't wear a ball cap. I have a really big head that's full of waist long dreadlocks.  I can't put a ball cap on my head. 

 

I feel like I would need the Pro clip.  Pretty happy that it's an option.  I could probably put it on anything, like a stocking cap or the like... right?

You can pretty much stick the IR LEDS anywhere, I'm working on fitting some into my Logitech G930 headphones. I want a neat job so they're in bits while I route all the wires, but the final result will be both very robust and functional, just how I like my planes.

[Georgio]

I was shocked how quickly I adapted to the TiR. It doesn't seem like it would be so natural but for me it was literally minutes of use and it was totally like being there. I can't even conceive of flying a sim without it. 

 

My gripe with it was the setup that comes with it that goes on the brim of a hat didn't work for me because the brim would occlude the receiver when I looked up. I might not have my flatscreen monitor as high as some.

 

But all that went away when I went to the pro and clipped it to my headphones. But the clip on the pro is a so so design and not very sturdy. And the whole unit is laughably fragile. It fell apart while I was trying to mount it to my headphones! It's taped back together and I leave it installed on my headphones so it's hanging in there. I just wish there was a sturdier option for the pro clip, like all metal or something.  I'd pay more for that.

Get some IR LED's a couple of resistors and a small battery pack and wire the LEDs into your headphones in the same configuration as the reflective metal strip, much better than the track clip.

[Georgio]

Also, compared to a Trackir 4, the Oculus Rift costs a relatively large sum of money. I would like to wait some years, before  purchasing an Oculus Rift, to see the price come down and let the Oculus develop a track record, so I can see if the Oculus is reliable enough to work for a number of years, before requiring the purchase of a newer version. Yes, I would recommend the trackir 4, for anyone looking to get a more emersive experience, than when using a hat switch, but not ready to commit to an Oculus Rift.  MJ

 

When the CV1 hits the shelves I absolutely bet that you will read about how everyone is having such a good time and you will give in.

Guaranteed.

You will hate yourself for it, but you won't be able to resist...^^

[Capt_Hook]

I'll just dogpile in with most everyone else and say if my TIR5 broke today, I wouldn't be flying till the new one came in.  I could make do with a cheaper joystick, pedals, etc., but I can't fly without TIR. 

 

I don't use the Trackclip Pro as I don't have anywhere to plug it in, but the standard wireframe reflector track clip is taped to the top of my headphones and works perfectly.  I only sit 24" or so from my monitor/TIR camera, though.  I use a boom mike mounted under my monitor, as I can't stand the poor sound of most integrated mike/headphones.  If they made an illuminated trackclip that used a button battery or some such I'd try it, but I can't imagine it'd work better given the short range I sit at.

 

You can get pretty good at using the keyboard, mouse, or coolie to look around, but they all suffer from a similar flaw:  you have no ingrained muscle memory to help you do that.  You'll have to learn it from scratch with a lot of practice.  The benefit of TIR (or any tracking solution) is that it takes advantage of your training since birth of turning your head to look around.  There's a bit of learning curve since the tracking has to be more sensitive to account for 180 movement, but it's  trivial to get used to it.  3-4 hours flying is typically all it takes.  This includes getting rid of all the unconscious movements you tend to make that will show up in the cockpit view.