Venting some frustration for the sake of us all VR targets.

[t-stoff]

I've been playing combat flying sims since Falcon 3.0. Screen was the only option. We evolved with a dozen flight and combat sims that were superb and we got cocky; joysticks (I reckon I got my first one with Falcon), good screens, and more recently Track IR. I must say I couldn't never get my grips with it 100% (trackir5). There were always problems tracking, getting the head where the console was (in DCS was horrible) to get that reading or switches, judders, snapping views - it was always clunky.
I bought VR because it was the ultimate experience you could add in terms of SIMS, specially if you can portray yourself in the cockpit of a flying machine. I even got a 152 on xplane just to get that extra training.
It's so easy to forget and to immerse the lack of FOV with the real life feeling of an helmet or headset. But in terms of spotting we've been let down, and it's so frustrating. I get shot down over and over because you just "FINALLY" get to see some random dude around you that's not your mate after  your 140923402394809238x attempt do identify  him (minus all the team mates you just fly over just to check, over and over), and even then you're not sure, apart from reading every book about planes, and growing with the slightest amount of info and still recognizing the X version from the X1.2.34.4566 version on any photograph, real life, show, video, movie ANYTHING. Not this time mate!
What it does is, you get that kinda fever of "that's it", "that's my chance", and it's never it, and the target vanishes, and its not really there. And you get ambushed. 
And no, if it was just like really life I could have spot it from miles away, and you wouldn't loose track anytime. I know that from real life.
I have been rage quiting. I never have done it before, not in CS, or UT, or COD, or anything. 
It's just frustrating and I needed to vent. Bear with me.

That's why I fly a lot of bombing missions. Not always successful. 
But it shouldn't be that way.


have a nice weekend!
 

Edited July 4, 2020 by t-stoff

[Drum]

I agree, that's why I suggested a while back that each dot (bogey) should have a small red/blue dot that lights up within the bogey's plane shape which would be an optional player aid when a bogey closes within a realistic range (selectable) to be identified.  You would still be required to spot the bogey, and truth be told, if you were looking at that bogey once it reached identifying range it's not really a cheat, but rather just a resolution aid that would still be missed when located behind cockpit framing, etc.  This dot would remain very small even as the plane closes so it in itself wouldn't draw your attention to it when not looking directly at the bogey.

[spitfirejoe]

To be honest...……...that is the reason why I mostly don´t fly online in Multiplayer. We VR players with the lower resolution have a big disadvantage compared to monitor players in 4k resolution turing their head 180 degrees like ducks.

The first missions online I even did friendly fire by accident, because I thought it is an opponent.

 

In VR I mostly do campaigns and own offline missions, I enjoy that more than Multiplayer.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

You are using an Oculus Rift CV1 though, correct me if I am wrong. That's the equivalent of a 720p monitor? Of course you'll have issues.

 

The Reverb (G1 or G2) could be an option for you. (I remember you had troubles with LH tracking).

 

 

[RedKestrel]

15 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

To be honest...……...that is the reason why I mostly don´t fly online in Multiplayer. We VR players with the lower resolution have a big disadvantage compared to monitor players in 4k resolution turing their head 180 degrees like ducks.

The first missions online I even did friendly fire by accident, because I thought it is an opponent.

 

In VR I mostly do campaigns and own offline missions, I enjoy that more than Multiplayer.

I am willing to bet that 4K monitors are rarer in online play than VR headsets. Most guys are either on 1080p or 1440p. 

[ACG_Macro]

gotta agree.

 

They taken away the  thing that made vr viable for alot of people calling it a hack.  no point flying online now against people using trackir you're just a target.  Iv used both for years and i believe the head mobility of trackir is more a game hack than any zoom in vr.  But its (the owl neck) has become the standard and loads of people use it so any changes detrimental to that would come with loads of complaints.  I'm sure pilots of the time could withstand high g maneuvers, but not while looking at the tail the whole time!

 

I would like to see VR only servers but dont think there are enough users for that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HansBlitz]

I have used Rift CV1 since July 2017 and spot better than my friends who use monitors and Track IR. VR is not a handicap -- keep working at it. I'm not saying some using VR don't have challenges spotting -- not everyone's sight is the same and settings can improve or make things worse. I know someone that flies on a monitor and says they can't see what I do but also says their eyesight could be better. As far as settings, there are lots of opinions - I'd say play with them and use what works best for you. I get bounced too and those times have been my fault for not being as aware as I should -- have happened when I've not been looking around me as much as I should.

 

I'm not special and think anyone could be able to do something like the flights I had yesterday. I haven't flown that much for a couple of months but did fly 2 sorties yesterday on Combat Box - below. 2 kills and got hit once and bailed out on my side of the line as was wounded slightly and 109 control response was lacking somewhat and that Spit was about to finish the kill anyway. The first kill never saw me. Dropped down into it's blind spot low 6 as I closed in, then hit it right at it started a slight right turn. Then I had spotted that Spit first and was in the process of bouncing it but it saw me just a bit too early for me to fire. It jinked, I missed when I did fire, I went high and the Spit ran out of energy trying to prop hang on me, dropped it's nose and I came back down behind the Spit. The Spit broke right and timed it's break well, I had a high angle shot but I missed. After than the Spit got the best of me in a scissors. I got shot down because of two things, neither being my VR. Both were my mistakes. If I had simply blown on through after my first pass -- then I wouldn't have gotten shot. Then when I did stay in that by going high and dropping back down, I blew the high angle shot -- wasn't an easy shot but it was my aim and timing on pulling the trigger that blew it. That Spit had ran out of energy and was on the defensive when I made 2nd pass. I had two chances. The other kill was when I spotted a fight and dove on P38 chasing someone and I believe didn't see me due to being so fixated on the plane it was shooting at.

 

My point is that, all three of the planes I got close to, I saw before they saw me while using VR. I also saw some other planes/fights but stayed out of those as the friendly already appeared to have the situation under control. That is often the case and is why I so strongly believe VR is not a handicap. My biggest issue is the guy with the stick in his hand.

 

https://combatbox.net/en/sorties/276/HansBlitz/?tour=24

 

These may not be best for you -- As I said in my first paragraph adjust yours and see what works best for you. My monitor is set to 1920x1080 and I use 1.2 super sampling in OTT, ASW off, and use Open Composite. Preset to High, Gamma is currently at 1.0 but have used 0.8 in the past, Landscape = blurred, HDR = off, Antialising = MSAA @ 2 also have Radeon software antialiasing set to enhance application settings (RX5700 XT GPU I7-7700k CPU). Find the balance of what works best for you in spotting that gives you a frame rate you can be ok with. I'm lucky that I'm ok with the few times I get 45-mid 50s PFS on airfields but often am getting 60-80 fps depending on clouds and objects nearby. I handle frame rate changes better than some talk about, so am lucky in that.

 

Keep working at your SA and try not to get frustrated, I believe you can improve your SA. Mine's not perfect but I do often see others before they see me. The new zoom has helped me with ID'ing things.

5 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Macro said:

no point flying online now against people using trackir you're just a target. 

 

Nah, that is not true. Most of my flying has been online and completely VR for 3 yrs. I get my share off kills. As stated in my post above, If I get shot down, it is on me having a lapse in my SA or making bad choices, not my VR.

[PreyStalker]

59 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I am willing to bet that 4K monitors are rarer in online play than VR headsets. Most guys are either on 1080p or 1440p. 

 

43' 1080p TV FTW !  ( or it used to be ! ) Conventional wisdom was that larger screens and lower resolution were best for spotting.

 

I can understand the OP's frustration, but I don't think anyone is having a great time with spotting at the moment, be it VR or flatscreen. Some maps and lighting conditions make things better/worse too, which confuses the issue.

 

Add in the magical disappearing contacts and I think it's obvious the visibility system in BOX needs improving. Right now, it's so hard to see anything unless you fall on top of it or it falls on you.

 

@t-stoff

You're not at such a big disadvantage in VR as you may think. Spotting on a flatscreen is no walk in the park either. Keep tweaking settings until you get something vaguely acceptable and that's about all you can do for the moment.

 

 

 

[t-stoff]

Thanks for all the replies!

One of the things that I miss a lot with VR is mostly because of the sweet spot. As it "blurs" your peripheral vision around your focus area you can't rely on your "sensors" to notice movement patterns, add that to the fact that most planes are nearly invisible, for the reasons mentioned all over this post, and you're up to an extremely difficult task. 
And yes I do agree that the witch-hunt on VR Zoom was certainly bad for us, and for the wrong reasons, like realism, as it was pointed out here with that spot on example of the owl neck in TrackIR. 
But I wont give up on searching for the right settings and some other strategies for succeeding in MP. For now I think I'll do a bit of offline play along with some MP bombing.

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Your sweet spot comment is also headset specific.

 

Again, if you don't go with a modern headset, you'll be having a hard time, especially IDing.

[t-stoff]

it's a reverb:) 

[FTC_Mephisto]

On multiple occasions I can see and ID cons better compared to my "screen" squad mates. 

[Bernard_IV]

I think it's pretty damn good with Reverb.  I'm playing pretty well on combatbox this month, ranked 113 at the moment.  Been ranked about 300 the last few months since I got Reverb out of a few thousand players.  It's competitive, you might be doing something wrong.

[Marvel]

On 7/4/2020 at 7:29 PM, t-stoff said:

I've been playing combat flying sims since Falcon 3.0. Screen was the only option. We evolved with a dozen flight and combat sims that were superb and we got cocky; joysticks (I reckon I got my first one with Falcon), good screens, and more recently Track IR. I must say I couldn't never get my grips with it 100% (trackir5). There were always problems tracking, getting the head where the console was (in DCS was horrible) to get that reading or switches, judders, snapping views - it was always clunky.
I bought VR because it was the ultimate experience you could add in terms of SIMS, specially if you can portray yourself in the cockpit of a flying machine. I even got a 152 on xplane just to get that extra training.
It's so easy to forget and to immerse the lack of FOV with the real life feeling of an helmet or headset. But in terms of spotting we've been let down, and it's so frustrating. I get shot down over and over because you just "FINALLY" get to see some random dude around you that's not your mate after  your 140923402394809238x attempt do identify  him (minus all the team mates you just fly over just to check, over and over), and even then you're not sure, apart from reading every book about planes, and growing with the slightest amount of info and still recognizing the X version from the X1.2.34.4566 version on any photograph, real life, show, video, movie ANYTHING. Not this time mate!
What it does is, you get that kinda fever of "that's it", "that's my chance", and it's never it, and the target vanishes, and its not really there. And you get ambushed. 
And no, if it was just like really life I could have spot it from miles away, and you wouldn't loose track anytime. I know that from real life.
I have been rage quiting. I never have done it before, not in CS, or UT, or COD, or anything. 
It's just frustrating and I needed to vent. Bear with me.

That's why I fly a lot of bombing missions. Not always successful. 
But it shouldn't be that way.


have a nice weekend!
 

 

In my previous installation of IL-2GB I finished the Stalingrad campaign with over 550 kills, all with Bf.109F2/4, no marks on map only track and my icon plane, no marks on external, real carreer, difficulty hard, front-line activity dense. I am not an "experten" but only training. In dogfight if you lose sight of your enemy almost surely you die.

 

Training and again training, eyes always on target, well-knowing of your plane and if you are at a numerical disadvantage e&e (escape and evading).

 

Maybe a new headsets could help a lot.

 

Ciao!

 

M

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

If you want to increase contrasts, I just by coincidence found out that the App fpsVR has added a function to play around with colors and brightness now for SteamVR users.

 

You need to start it, start IL-2, then go to the SteamVR Dashboard, and at the bottom panel on the left-hand side you'll see a new icon. Click it and explore 

 

Edit: The App costs something in Steam, but you can explore it for up to two hours - and if you have less use-time on it, you can give it back and have it refunded within Steam within a few days. If you're using WMR, you might want to check that immediately if it works there too.

Edited July 9, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[t-stoff]

On 7/9/2020 at 10:21 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

If you want to increase contrasts, I just by coincidence found out that the App fpsVR has added a function to play around with colors and brightness now for SteamVR users.

 

You need to start it, start IL-2, then go to the SteamVR Dashboard, and at the bottom panel on the left-hand side you'll see a new icon. Click it and explore 

 

Edit: The App costs something in Steam, but you can explore it for up to two hours - and if you have less use-time on it, you can give it back and have it refunded within Steam within a few days. If you're using WMR, you might want to check that immediately if it works there too.

Hey!:)
I bought fpsVR when I got my VR, but I'm not sure if I'm following where to find these new feature of colors and brightness. I launch SteamVR Dashboard while ingame, and I see the fpsVR icon but the settings look the same. Maybe I'm missing something!
Thanks

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Well, isn't easy to make a screenshot of something not on the monitor. It's in there, to the left hand side of the large icon "current game" on the dashboard. Then search through the points until you find it. ?

[t-stoff]

I don't think it works with the Reverb, from what I've been reading & searching (on the fpsvr steam discussion). I think it's Index only ? 

[O_DesoLunatic]

I'm getting some good sorties and some bad ones - it can be frustrating because if you are flying alone you will be always at a disadvantage to people grouping up and flying together. I also would want to blame it on something but I guess I can only blame me for bad results when they happen since I know I am capable of 3-5 kill sorties and I don't always pay the attention to my surroundings equally. I noticed tho that if I don't feel very optimistic or 'hungry' for this game it will result in subpar flying so when it happens I just call it a day and go do something else   

Part of the reason for me might be also that I choose to do something others would consider a very bad habit - I usually stay in a fight until I'm out of ammo and I survived or until enemy shoots me down and I think you can see it in my recent sorties on box 
https://combatbox.net/en/sorties/3996/desolunatic/?tour=24

Edited July 11, 2020 by desolunatic

[t-stoff]

I think we can make mistakes, we can be out of "hunger" or as suggested above "may be you're doing something wrong". Guilty of all!
But that can't hide the fact that these problems exist in game and are also the subject of hundreds of posts here, on reddit, steam etc - and one of the main purposes of this specific sub forum; optimization, tips, zooms, etc, etc.
We're still handicapped, client side, and game side. Hardware and software.
We can always blame the player, but there's a big part that's not our fault. And of course I never said that's the games fault that I can't be an ace. It's the games fault that It's frustrating most of the time when you're spotting/identifying some plane and in that process you to fall intro a trap or something else that is counterproductive to most survival tactics. It's more or less like if you need but don't use glasses while driving you'll probably miss your highway exit. 
Of course sometimes our skills and zone, luck and other random factors can trick us into thinking there's nothing wrong, but you know there is and everyone here knows it.
Otherwise some kind people weren't spending thousands of hours developing zooms, testing colors, settings and other stuff to improve experience. 
I don't think there's much to add apart from some tips and I can thank you all for it!:)

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by t-stoff

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

17 hours ago, t-stoff said:

I don't think it works with the Reverb, from what I've been reading & searching (on the fpsvr steam discussion). I think it's Index only ? 

Oh okay that might be, yeah I remember I found the setting while using the Index. Damn.

 

So only Index and Pimax have these settings confirmed to work I guess. Means it won't work in the Reverb G2 either ? HP mentioned to MRTV they'll reduce brightness by 30%. Will see how that turns out then.. wake me up when September ends!

Edited July 11, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[O_DesoLunatic]

1 hour ago, t-stoff said:

Of course sometimes our skills and zone, luck and other random factors can trick us into thinking there's nothing wrong, but you know there is and everyone here knows it.
Otherwise some kind people weren't spending thousands of hours developing zooms, testing colors, settings and other stuff to improve experience. 
I don't think there's much to add apart from some tips and I can thank you all for it!:)

 

 

Maybe I found settings that are good for me fairly quickly and/or my brain works well with Lenvovo Exploder (as 3klicksphilip from youtube calls it). In my experience the biggest factor setup-wise is supersampling I think - higher gives better ID but worse spotting so maybe try playing with it?  Anyway I really can't remember a situation recently when I was jumped when I wasn't lazy with my SA. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by desolunatic

[Bernard_IV]

I feel pretty competitive in the servers, so I don't agree with the huge VR handicap.  I have about 700hrs experience but many others have far more.  Here are my sorties: https://combatbox.net/en/sorties/5246/Bernard_IV/?tour=24&page=1  Win some and lose some.  When I die I know what I did wrong or what I missed.

 

If I had any tips it would be to start out at 10,000 ft or higher if you don't have a crew.  Put the plane into combat power and keep your speed up, use this as much as possible.  I keep scanning around constantly, it is really hard work and not very relaxing.  If you get an opportunity don't miss!  If you do miss, don't over commit to the fight losing all your speed and altitude, play it smart.  Learn some defensive maneuvers and have a plan for when someone pulls up behind you.  In VR I use my chair on a swivel and literally sit sideways most of the time so I can keep an eye on my 6.  It's pretty rare for me to get bounced.  Keep practicing!  There are a lot of amazing players in this game.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Bernard_IV