downedpilot Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) at the end of this , ubi server rooms were still 20s and 40s the first il2 was just fantastic and up to 1946 better too. we all waited three years for cliffs of dover, a promise of moving weather detail in real time. 100 in one dog fight, i have never seen 100 on a server, but for its time it was well ahead of any flying sim i loved mouse control of the engine controls ext, we all new the game was released far to early but i loved the game any hell , and the game was dumped after waiting three year for it. then tf got there hands on it. all thay could do was mod the hell out of it and some fixes, mean while 777 come a long and gave us bos and all the reast, the 777 joined tf to sale blitz to none dover owners and now cod Africa i do really fill, that all of us that went over to 777 bos ext. should get Africa free has i really do think that cod is a greater game than any 777 game and now that it is fixed and i have waited over 13 years and have spent a fortune on the il2 series. Edited July 5, 2020 by downedpilot 4 5
dazako Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) So every time Star Wars got released in a new format or boxed set it should be for free to anyone who bought any prior Star Wars movies ? Led Zeppelin CD's for free if you had the vinyl album ? It sounds like a great idea for the movie or music fan, but business just does not work that way. No-one is forced to buy anything. We all make our own choices. You've spent a lot of money on the IL2 series by choice, and I hope you've enjoyed it all as much as you will Tobruk - if you choose to buy it. Daz Edited July 4, 2020 by dazako 1
Beazil Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 Team Fusion has worked for free as they "interned" for several years bringing us modded and updated Cliffs of Dover; A simulation the group did not start, but stepped in to work on when no one else could. Let's look at it another way: how many years would you work on a commercial project without any compensation? 4 1 2
Monksilver Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 For those who do not live in the UK - The Covid 19 lockdown saw all pubs in England shut since 23 March. Today is the first day people in England have been allowed go back to drinking in pubs. I do not know if this is relevant to the first post above.? 13 1
Trooper117 Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 Strange isn't it... like the OP I have bought everything that has come out in WWII combat aviation with the IL2 name on it. It comes to a tidy sum and I don't regret buying anything. The IL2 game series has given me years of fun and pleasure, right from the moment old Oleg released it... and yet not once did I think that anything that came out should be given to me for free. I don't see that, now that this latest add on to CloD is arriving, I should change my perspective in any way... it's a funny old world! 2 3
jollyjack Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Monksilver said: For those who do not live in the UK - The Covid 19 lockdown saw all pubs in England shut since 23 March. Today is the first day people in England have been allowed go back to drinking in pubs. I do not know if this is relevant to the first post above.? Guess he went for a special brew: 1
DD_Arthur Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Monksilver said: For those who do not live in the UK - The Covid 19 lockdown saw all pubs in England shut since 23 March. Today is the first day people in England have been allowed go back to drinking in pubs. I do not know if this is relevant to the first post above.? 1
Enceladus828 Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 If Tobruk was released for free then I wouldn’t see any point in them continuing development after Tobruk. (okay, maybe just maybe a few fixes and VR) The same thing probably goes with IL-2 GBz.
Beazil Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Trooper117 said: Strange isn't it... like the OP I have bought everything that has come out in WWII combat aviation with the IL2 name on it. It comes to a tidy sum and I don't regret buying anything. The IL2 game series has given me years of fun and pleasure, right from the moment old Oleg released it... and yet not once did I think that anything that came out should be given to me for free. I don't see that, now that this latest add on to CloD is arriving, I should change my perspective in any way... it's a funny old world! Well, I guess it's win win then. I don't see much to disagree with in your statement, let alone anything that might ruffle feathers. The op suggested the expansion should be free. I disagree. The win win part is that those improvements will make their way to Blitz owners anyway.
BraveSirRobin Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 10 hours ago, downedpilot said: at the end of this , ubi server rooms were still 20s and 40s the first il2 was just fantastic and up to 1946 better too. we all waited three years for cliffs of dover, a promise of moving weather detail in real time. 100 in one dog fight, i have never seen 100 on a server, but for its time it was well ahead of any flying sim i loved mouse control of the engine controls ext, we all new the game was released far to early but i loved the game any hell , and the game was dumped after waiting three year for it. then tf got there hands on it. all thay could do was mod the hell out of it and some fixes, mean while 777 come a long and gave us bos and all the reast, the 777 jioned tf to sale blitz to none dover owners and now cod africa i do really fill, that all of us that went over to 777 bos ext should get africa free has i really do think that cod is a greater game than any 777 game and now that it is fixed and i have waited over 13 years and have spent a fortune on the il2 series. Congrats on your first beer in a very long while (ever?)!! 1
ATAG_Flare Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 "You mean I have to pay for this fifth beer? But I'm a loyal customer and just bought 4 beers already!" 1
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 7 hours ago, ATAG_Flare said: "You mean I have to pay for this fifth beer? But I'm a loyal customer and just bought 4 beers already!" yes but the last4 beer were water down 17 hours ago, dazako said: So every time Star Wars got released in a new format or boxed set it should be for free to anyone who bought any prior Star Wars movies ? Led Zeppelin CD's for free if you had the vinyl album ? It sounds like a great idea for the movie or music fan, but business just does not work that way. No-one is forced to buy anything. We all make our own choices. You've spent a lot of money on the IL2 series by choice, and I hope you've enjoyed it all as much as you will Tobruk - if you choose to buy it. Daz yes i will buy has i fill this is the only true il2 engine and give up on 777 just remember you paid full price for a sim that took 13 years to get up to its true self, i will find a squad and serve in africa not normandy 17 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said: Team Fusion has worked for free as they "interned" for several years bringing us modded and updated Cliffs of Dover; A simulation the group did not start, but stepped in to work on when no one else could. Let's look at it another way: how many years would you work on a commercial project without any compensation? i no and wish thay carried on with out joining the very machine that dumped the game in the first place, i did give money to them threw donations like a lot of fans for mods and patches ,has i was very great full the game to remain on line.
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said: If Tobruk was released for free then I wouldn’t see any point in them continuing development after Tobruk. (okay, maybe just maybe a few fixes and VR) The same thing probably goes with IL-2 GBz. tf took donations of fans and took the game on and proved that thay could make it work on their own, then 777 come along with snow snow snow, for gods sake snow and a old engine . and took codb on there books , lets say the beast of both worlds, Edited July 5, 2020 by downedpilot 1
BOO Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, downedpilot said: is there any one out their that can see what i can. Im looking.....er....... nope.
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, BOO said: Im looking.....er....... nope. sorry all it is ,i just hate the idea of having two il2 series if the game makers were true to the fan,s dumped would have meant dumped not to jump back in has the going looked to good to miss, should of stuck with cod how good would il2 series be now, i can only afford to jion one il2 team so i chose cod and pick up on bos when its dirt cheap in sales.
BOO Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 1 minute ago, downedpilot said: Look at it a different way. Its two engines both of which have their plus and minus points. Treat them as two different takes on theme and forget they are in the same house now. Two different teams working in some semblence of co-operation thus avoiding repeating the same theatres. The improvements supposedly coming with Sandclod will also benefit Blitz and since Blitz is essentially the developed core product of the orignial game you wont need to pay for those improvments if you choose not to buy into the Dessert. Ultimately BOS is not going away and has its fans just as much (if not currently more) than Clod.
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 51 minutes ago, BOO said: Look at it a different way. Its two engines both of which have their plus and minus points. Treat them as two different takes on theme and forget they are in the same house now. Two different teams working in some semblence of co-operation thus avoiding repeating the same theatres. The improvements supposedly coming with Sandclod will also benefit Blitz and since Blitz is essentially the developed core product of the orignial game you wont need to pay for those improvments if you choose not to buy into the Dessert. Ultimately BOS is not going away and has its fans just as much (if not currently more) than Clod. very good answer, lets hope we don't have to wait ten years before we get a new eng that works with all that new tech that's coming our way now , i have seen things in other games, that would work well in il2 but the two engines our out of date to take such tech,i give you sample, it might be a crape game to you all, but to me we all our hunters in the sky and a kill is so ? the two games ironwings and tigers over china have close up combate were you see some real damage how good would this be in 4k x and rtx x12extra it would move the game on to adults only but i dont no many under 18 that like the game, this close up action comes from madox ,cod team before tf
AndyJWest Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Sorry, downedpilot, but it simply isn't going to happen. The decision has already been made, and regardless of your opinion on the matter, if you want to fly the CloD Africa content, you are going to have to pay for it (or find someone to pay for it on your behalf). Team Fusion are in a commercial relationship with 1C-777, and the contract they will have signed - the one that gave them access to the source code - will undoubtedly have included clauses on under what conditions derived content can be released, and on how income is distributed. Whether 1C-777 will take a significant cut of the income derived, I don't know, though they will presumably get something in return for the costs they incur for distribution etc. Personally, I'm all in favour of free software. I'm not, however, under the illusion that commercial developers are somehow going to forgo income just because some random guy bought something else years ago, and thinks that this entitles them to free stuff. That isn't how the world works, for now at least - and if you want to argue for a world where commercial concerns don't determine pricing, you'll probably need to ask yourself whether the cost of entertainment software is really the place to be focusing such arguments. Personally, I'd suggest that essentials like food, healthcare, housing etc are more of a priority for most of us... Edited July 5, 2020 by AndyJWest 2 2
Chief_Mouser Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 21 hours ago, downedpilot said: You can't call yourself a diehard fan if you haven't got this one: Mind you, he does live in a body of water so perhaps we'll let him off. 1 1
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 31 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said: You can't call yourself a diehard fan if you haven't got this one: Mind you, he does live in a body of water so perhaps we'll let him off. the beast mod i ever had and all the fans wanted the normandy map of it very good graphics great patch 407 i thing /BATTLES OVER NORMANDY/ just great i seved this mod for a long time. had the beast nights in ever my fav plane was the 4 cannon hurrie make one pass bf109 out turn shoot him down if not you the gonna, ya the 109 hatted the cannon and the turn rate of the hurrie,
Chief_Mouser Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, downedpilot said: the beast mod i ever had and all the fans wanted the normandy map of it very good graphics great patch 407 i thing /BATTLES OVER NORMANDY/ just great i seved this mod for a long time. had the beast nights in ever my fav plane was the 4 cannon hurrie make one pass bf109 out turn shoot him down if not you the gonna, ya the 109 hatted the cannon and the turn rate of the hurrie, The Hampshire dialect is strong in this one... 1 1
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 21 hours ago, dazako said: So every time Star Wars got released in a new format or boxed set it should be for free to anyone who bought any prior Star Wars movies ? Led Zeppelin CD's for free if you had the vinyl album ? It sounds like a great idea for the movie or music fan, but business just does not work that way. No-one is forced to buy anything. We all make our own choices. You've spent a lot of money on the IL2 series by choice, and I hope you've enjoyed it all as much as you will Tobruk - if you choose to buy it. Daz the music industry haha pirate bay got them bach £17 for a cd. free to down load torrent. greed will all ways lead to poverty, paid £14 sgt peppers lp £17cd £16cd remaster £37 for the lot worth it great lp
BOO Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 Never thought it possible but you make raaid sound like voice of reason. 1 1
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said: The Hampshire dialect is strong in this one... yes very lazy on key board
jollyjack Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 I probably won't buy it anyway since i HATE that Steam mafia ....
BOO Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 Just now, jollyjack said: I probably won't buy it anyway since i HATE that Steam mafia .... Thanks for sharing. Must have been very cathartic for you. 1
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 26 minutes ago, BOO said: Thanks for sharing. Must have been very cathartic for you. yes i no what you mean, yes felt the same when steam come in to it all, i was the most loyal il2 customer when madox was on the il2 add ventures, still loyal to madox games now well watts left of it, but all so very loyal to the new il2 team untill now i have only paid steam for cod and tigers over china, i think i might forget all i have said flick a coin and go with the winner,
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, BOO said: Look at it a different way. Its two engines both of which have their plus and minus points. Treat them as two different takes on theme and forget they are in the same house now. Two different teams working in some semblence of co-operation thus avoiding repeating the same theatres. The improvements supposedly coming with Sandclod will also benefit Blitz and since Blitz is essentially the developed core product of the orignial game you wont need to pay for those improvments if you choose not to buy into the Dessert. Ultimately BOS is not going away and has its fans just as much (if not currently more) than Clod. i just love the way this is getting up ya nose of some people . but no one give a toot rimity toot toot when we all got the email were our not suporting ext cliffs of dover the game was dumped Edited July 5, 2020 by downedpilot
Beazil Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 Connect the dots man. Cliffs got dumped. Not 777 studio's fault. Not Team Fusion's fault. Nobody had to touch this software. I know I was upset and felt ripped off at the time too. But that was in no small part to the small amount of sales where the original publisher could not justify continued development. It is a business after all. You could blame mismanagement perhaps, but nobody here was involved and there is no blame to assign. Noone owes here. I can't help but think arguments like this one must be discouraging for TF to read. We are talking about people here, and the hard work they do. Salute! 1 1
Livai Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 Wach, Lana, I wanna Africa - Wach, Lana, I wanna for free - I wanna wanna wanna wanna ??? 1
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 On 7/4/2020 at 6:25 PM, JG51_Beazil said: Team Fusion has worked for free as they "interned" for several years bringing us modded and updated Cliffs of Dover; A simulation the group did not start, but stepped in to work on when no one else could. Let's look at it another way: how many years would you work on a commercial project without any compensation? i would give team fusion the full asking price but i don't want to give any thing to the team that dumped the game in the first place, its like giving a car thief a job in a car park,
Beazil Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, downedpilot said: i would give team fusion the full asking price but i don't want to give any thing to the team that dumped the game in the first place, its like giving a car thief a job in a car park, Aha! Now we get to the crux of it! This is not the same team. This is not the same publisher. It's the same franchise, yes, and to a degree, a resurrection of it. Think of 777 studios as the patron that made paid development possible and elevated the members of team fusion from "modders" to blossoming "flight simulation professionals", and you'll understand why I'm looking at it the way I am. No one is profiteering here. I'm looking at it like when we have a member go out and obtain a pilot's licence. I'm happy for them, and celebrate the achievements of our members. This is a triumph for our community. Edited July 5, 2020 by JG51_Beazil 1
Avimimus Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 4 hours ago, 216th_Cat said: You can't call yourself a diehard fan if you haven't got this one: Well, 1946 was announced before the Peshka expansion became available in the West... so... I could see one being a diehard by rushing to pre-order it. I actually tried to get the U.K. collector's edition of Cliffs (getting a friend to order it) but it never arrived. But, if we're doing the whole 'I'm a die-hard fan because I've got two copies of the Ace Expansion Pack' kindof silly conversation... I'll give you what I think the prestige one is: Having rushed out to buy the copy of PC Gamer that had the original Il-2 demo (the first one - not the post-release v1.2 one)!
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, JG51_Beazil said: Aha! Now we get to the crux of it! This is not the same team. This is not the same publisher. It's the same franchise, yes, and to a degree, a resurrection of it. Think of 777 studios as the patron that made paid development possible and elevated the members of team fusion from "modders" to blossoming "flight simulation professionals", and you'll understand why I'm looking at it the way I am. No one is profiteering here. I'm looking at it like when we have a member go out and obtain a pilot's licence. I'm happy for them, and celebrate the achievements of our members. This is a triumph for our community. i fully agree with you but you still have two game machine using the il2 badge with 777 ending up with the rights of all il2 games, when il2 sent a email to all saying the game had been dumped and now il2 our asking for money for a mod on a game thay have dumped 1
Beazil Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Well I suppose it's your perogative if you feel that strongly about it, but I am of the opinion that anyone involved presently in IL2 development is not responsible for the "sins of the father's", so to speak. If it was a simple matter to port all assets to the current engine, it would have been done. You could say the same about the original IL2 assets and rise of flight too, if only it were that simple. It just isn't. Oh and thank you for the civil discussion downedpilot. It has been noted, even though we differ on opinion. Edited July 5, 2020 by JG51_Beazil 1
Monksilver Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, downedpilot said: i fully agree with you but you still have two game machine using the il2 badge with 777 ending up with the rights of all il2 games, when il2 sent a email to all saying the game had been dumped and now il2 our asking for money for a mod on a game thay have dumped Don't think of it paying for a mod on CODB, instead think of it as buying a new stand alone game. If it was a stand alone sim would you want to buy it? Surely that desire can't be lessened just because you will at the same time get an upgrade on a sim you already have. As for the rest of your issues, what you do or don't do isn't going to change history, its not going to get you a refund on COD it isn't going to get you a letter of apology. Cutting off your nose to spite your face and all that.
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Avimimus said: Well, 1946 was announced before the Peshka expansion became available in the West... so... I could see one being a diehard by rushing to pre-order it. I actually tried to get the U.K. collector's edition of Cliffs (getting a friend to order it) but it never arrived. But, if we're doing the whole 'I'm a die-hard fan because I've got two copies of the Ace Expansion Pack' kindof silly conversation... I'll give you what I think the prestige one is: Having rushed out to buy the copy of PC Gamer that had the original Il-2 demo (the first one - not the post-release v1.2 one)! yes i got the disk to , did not like vista 64, had a great time untill first patch come out even more fun after that,
DD_Arthur Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 49 minutes ago, downedpilot said: i would give team fusion the full asking price but i don't want to give any thing to the team that dumped the game in the first place, its like giving a car thief a job in a car park, The 'team' that dumped CLoD in the first place? That would be evil old 1C Games and yes what a terrible bunch they were. After bankrolling the development for 5 years, in 2011 they had the nerve to ask for a release!!! And then it was all up for poor old Oleg! It gets worse! 1C then spent another 2 years trying to make a game of it themselves, assembling a staff of over fifty to try and bludgeon it into something before giving it up for a bad job. Finally, just to show what a bunch of villains they were and even after shovelling millions of $ into the big black hole that was CLoD they STILL wanted to make combat flight sims and contracted 777 Studio to form a new partnership with them called 1CGames to have another go.........which is where we are today. Yeah.....1C eh? What a bunch they were..... 2 1 1
downedpilot Posted July 5, 2020 Author Posted July 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Monksilver said: Don't think of it paying for a mod on CODB, instead think of it as buying a new stand alone game. If it was a stand alone sim would you want to buy it? Surely that desire can't be lessened just because you will at the same time get an upgrade on a sim you already have. As for the rest of your issues, what you do or don't do isn't going to change history, its not going to get you a refund on COD it isn't going to get you a letter of apology. Cutting off your nose to spite your face and all that. 6 minutes ago, Monksilver said: Don't think of it paying for a mod on CODB, instead think of it as buying a new stand alone game. If it was a stand alone sim would you want to buy it? Surely that desire can't be lessened just because you will at the same time get an upgrade on a sim you already have. As for the rest of your issues, what you do or don't do isn't going to change history, its not going to get you a refund on COD it isn't going to get you a letter of apology. Cutting off your nose to spite your face and all that. 7 minutes ago, Monksilver said: Don't think of it paying for a mod on CODB, instead think of it as buying a new stand alone game. If it was a stand alone sim would you want to buy it? Surely that desire can't be lessened just because you will at the same time get an upgrade on a sim you already have. As for the rest of your issues, what you do or don't do isn't going to change history, its not going to get you a refund on COD it isn't going to get you a letter of apology. Cutting off your nose to spite your face and all that. 8 minutes ago, Monksilver said: Don't think of it paying for a mod on CODB, instead think of it as buying a new stand alone game. If it was a stand alone sim would you want to buy it? Surely that desire can't be lessened just because you will at the same time get an upgrade on a sim you already have. As for the rest of your issues, what you do or don't do isn't going to change history, its not going to get you a refund on COD it isn't going to get you a letter of apology. Cutting off your nose to spite your face and all that. i started this and did my best to tell the truth, it has been very interesting. so fare find that most forum members our very die hard fans, and dont like to here bad about il2, this is how i felt many years ago, i really did think that cod would disappear into the wood work, and have said my bit now and hope you all can see how one game failure and uprise from the deadish can make some old fan feel.
Beazil Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said: The 'team' that dumped CLoD in the first place? That would be evil old 1C Games and yes what a terrible bunch they were. After bankrolling the development for 5 years, in 2011 they had the nerve to ask for a release!!! And then it was all up for poor old Oleg! It gets worse! 1C then spent another 2 years trying to make a game of it themselves, assembling a staff of over fifty to try and bludgeon it into something before giving it up for a bad job. Finally, just to show what a bunch of villains they were and even after shovelling millions of $ into the big black hole that was CLoD they STILL wanted to make combat flight sims and contracted 777 Studio to form a new partnership with them called 1CGames to have another go.........which is where we are today. Yeah.....1C eh? What a bunch they were..... Lol, yeah, more like this.
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