**Parachute Shooters** / Killers.

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

 

 

 

Quote from Speedwulf77:

 

(Maybe i am a little "OldSchool" but i come from a time where years ago in training in a squadron it was one of the biggest rules to even let someone "smoking darker then white" run home if he doesnt want to fight anymore.. "Parachuting or similar" permanent Ban of the squadron... )

 

 

Good day pilots, it seems that it is a new trend today to shoot a parachute, it gives the impression of being a sign of humiliation towards the opponent, I remember the old days of 46 when they could ban you for doing that, the only thing that inspires is a certain degree of grief and sad for the little honor that exists today.

 

 

Many times I have read phrases from various virtual pilots saying: It is simply a game, in a game there is no honor, and things like that, however because in old days from the 1946 there was certain grade of respect for the opponent and why today it is not ?

 

Age differences, a new generation of pilots from other games. What do you think about it?

 

-S-

Edited July 3, 2020 by GOA_Karaya_VR

[Trooper117]

Ban them for life and confiscate their flight sim games... the dirty bounders!

[vonduck]

Although a game, a game and how you play it is in someway a reflection of the actual person...personally I don't shoot paras.... im after the plane, not the man...

[Bilbo_Baggins]

Karaya,

 

I'm not sure if you're already aware of it but the offender in your picture reference here has an unbridled bias and hatred towards blue since time began, however I still believe that the vast majority still have a sense of the respect you talk of. Also, it has to be said that whilst hanging in the parachute one can give clear information and warnings to others for as far the eye can see, and from many angles as you pan around the view. Perhaps this needs to be considered here too.

 

RGDS

Edited July 4, 2020 by Bilbo_Baggins

[Archie]

I dislike it, but it's been happening since the early days of the original il2. Certain squads in online wars were well known for it.

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

BTW, my parachute was once killed during TAW by a member of GOA.

[=[TIA]=I-Fly-Central]

17 hours ago, vonduck said:

Although a game, a game and how you play it is in someway a reflection of the actual person...personally I don't shoot paras.... im after the plane, not the man...

 

Agreed. I fly the same why. Once I see that the plane is going down; I break off. As a matter of practicality, it conserves ammo, if nothing else.

[Cybermat47]

57 minutes ago, mincer said:

BTW, my parachute was once killed during TAW by a member of GOA.

Were you parachuting into friendly territory?

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

7 minutes ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

Were you parachuting into friendly territory?

I don't remember, but it was close to front line. Why does it matter?

[FTC_Etherlight]

Because pilot lives are a limited, map winning resource in TAW. From a design perspective it makes perfect sense to shoot at parachutes. 

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

In the parser admin area there is a table for scoring objects.  It is possible to assign points for a parachute.  Of course, as far as I know, everyone has left this at "0", to not provide additional incentive for shooting at parachutes.  But, presumably, it would also be possible to change the points to a negative number, as a sort of penalty.  Has any WWII server/campaign where both sides have chutes available, ever considered playing with the idea of penalty points for shooting chutes to discourage the behavior?

[Madov]

It's more of an expression of how you see the activity that you are engaged in, are you simulating war action or playing a game? The answer to that question will largely determine your reaction to shooting at pilots under canopy. Certainly it happened historically and quite often. It became official policy of the US Mighty Eighth to kill bailed pilots from German jets as they were a prized asset to deny the enemy. It frequently happened on the Eastern Front and happened also to pilots during the BoB though perhaps less often.

[6FG_Big_Al]

In general, I have a deep aversion to this behavior. Even if it is a combat simulator, we are not at war. Accordingly, this is about fun and (for me) also sportsmanship. The same applies to me when people camp at airfields.  While I can understand why people do it on servers like TAW, on servers like Wings, KOTA and CB it has no more value than getting a few " easy " kills.

[busdriver]

54 minutes ago, 41Sqn_Madov said:

It became official policy of the US Mighty Eighth to kill bailed pilots from German jets as they were a prized asset to deny the enemy.

 

You're daft mate...show us some documentation.

[Beazil]

Suppressing an airfield and shooting chutes are different in my mind's eye.  While being on the receiving end of a spawn/strafe sucks, it's (IMHO) part of the game.  Now I know there are rules in place on some servers, and I respect those rules, but on servers where it is allowed, I will strafe airfields to try to deny it's use while I can - The objective being to get the enemy to lift from another field or just not lift from a frontline field.

My objective isn't killing pilots in this situation, it's suppressing the enemy.

Chute killing on the other hand strikes me as a more spiteful move for obvious reasons, but I suppose that's why I throw my comments up for consideration.

[Pict]

My take on this subject is that I don't do it myself, but I'm not interested on going on a crusade to stop it happening, simply as it's too large a task to enforce. I just about only fly offline on TAW and their rule allows for it. I'd guess that's because it really did happen and again it's too much hassle to enforce.

 

If someone shoots me in my chute I think it says more about them than it say about me, so it's not really my problem ultimately but theirs.

 

Anyhow, I'm far more concerned about getting smashed on the runway by others on my own side who don't use the taxiway or follow the pattern or land / take off against the wind because they are either too lazy or consider themselves too important to taxi around to the right runway, or both.

 

But that's also hard to enforce.

 

 

[Beazil]

1 hour ago, Pict said:

 

If someone shoots me in my chute I think it says more about them than it say about me, so it's not really my problem ultimately but theirs.

 

 

Spot on.

[CountZero]

In CloD if i remenber correctly pilot is not shotable when hes on parachute and no problems, devs can make problem go away by doing same here, there is no point in promoting shoting players in chutes its just sorce of bad blode online, and even if your aganst it youll start doing it as some one did it to you.

Also problem with vulching could be fixed by devs by making one short range and long range flak unit for each side that can be 100% accurate, so mission maker can just place 1-2 of them on spawn bases and no more complains about it also, as now you cant place realistic number of flaks in missions and even if you have 20 of them per base big damage can be done before they even hit anything at high skill.

2 main sorces of bad blode in MP solved by simple options.

[JG27*AD]

Chute Shooters are low-down dirty, mean, scalawags, yellow-bellied snake crawlers, chumps, chimps, dunderheads, grifters, pissants, sneaky skunks, tosspotts, and all-around poor sports!!

 

As an admin on the old War Clouds server in 1946, it was with great pleasure and privilege to expel them from the server.

 

Salute !!

AD

[SIA_Sp00k]

Ive always thought those that whined about it were insecure sooky cry babies, whose existential virtual life means far too much to them than is healthy for what little remains of their mental health.

 

If I see ANY of you meat bags in a chute and I can line you up while still covering my perfectly formed bubble shaped a55, a small shiver of pure joy will emanate from my being as I squeeze the trigger and watch each magnificent shell tear into your water bag forms.

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by TWC_Sp00k

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

1 hour ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

Ive always thought those that whined about it were insecure sooky cry babies, whose existential virtual life means far more too much to them than is healthy for what little remains of their mental health.

 

If I see ANY of you meat bags in a chute and I can line you up while still covering my perfectly formed bubble shaped a55, a small shiver of pure joy will emanate from my being as I squeeze the trigger and watch each magnificent shell tear into your water bag forms.

 

 

 

 

All of this comments are a reflection of your life, but its ok sir! 

 

Everything will be fine, ok?.

 

-S- ?

[SIA_Sp00k]

1 hour ago, GOA_Karaya_VR said:

 

All of this comments are a reflection of your life, but its ok sir! 

 

Everything will be fine, ok?.

 

-S- ?

Thank you for caring.

 

S!

[NiiranenVR]

I see it as a part of the game , but why do it in the normal FC game .... I can take a new plane right away ,....

But I was a part of the big game , few month ago ( Don't remember the name ) where a pilot was out of the game for an hour when dead , and 5 minutes ? When bailed out .... So there I see a reason for chute killing  ( and happens for me too )

Edited July 5, 2020 by Niiranen-VR

[=RS=Stix_09]

While I don't chute kill or vulch airfields as a general rule, I dislike that kind of play , as it upsets many and does not add to fun gameplay (ie if it stops people getting into play)

 

If you are there to just piss people of , you should poff...

 

When I make missions I state what is and is not allowed, some (front airfields are open to vulching , rear are generally not)

 

My opinion is this:
if the server specifies u can or can't , do what the server says, if not its open and don't complain if it happens. If you don't like it don't fly there, (and whine about it).

 

Politely ask the admins (via their feedback system) to consider changing server or mission  rules.

Edited July 23, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[zelil]

AAA never got the memo.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

On 7/5/2020 at 3:12 AM, busdriver said:

 

You're daft mate...show us some documentation.

On another discussion on this forum an actual scan of Combat Report from a U.S. pilot was posted. Do not know if it was official policy, but obviously officially sanctioned,  he clearly stated the he killed Two German pilots after they had bailed.

 

Sorry do not have the link but was only posted a couple of weeks ago. Maybe someone else has a link.

 

At least one of the pilots was in a flying coffin (Me109) so was happening to more just 262 pilots.

Edited July 24, 2020 by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve
spelling typo

[HR_Tofolo]

What a butthurt the OP is, trying to do on the forums what he cannot accomplish ingame.

 

Posting an image to accuse a member who, BTW, doesn't sistematically chute shoot . If you knew more about him, you would realize that if you're shot will hanging on the chute it's because he knows who that pilot is. 

 

 

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

What a butthurt the OP is, trying to do on the forums what he cannot accomplish ingame.

 

Posting an image to accuse a member who, BTW, doesn't sistematically chute shoot . If you knew more about him, you would realize that if you're shot will hanging on the chute it's because he knows who that pilot is. 

 

 

But thats the whole point of when you alow or even promote chute shooting on your server or game, ppl who start to do it to others as bs move will crate more chute shooters in thouse others who will start to do it them as revange and then others will do it to them and so on and sone you have what you wonted rotten enviroment in game, even if at start your ugenst it your forced to do with time, i see that happend in old il-2 and here. 

[RedKestrel]

We can make up all the justifications we want, but at the end of the day chutekilling is just teabagging for flight sims.

 

Even on TAW, where pilots are a limited resource, I don't think I've ever seen a map roll because of pilot losses, the mechanic is almost functionally irrelevant when compared to planes or objectives. The risk to your own plane and the waste of ammo makes it a worse tactical decision than letting the guy live.

[Sky_Wolf]

On 7/4/2020 at 10:03 PM, TWC_Sp00k said:

insecure sooky cry babies

 

I think it would be interesting to get a sense of how many IL2 players actually give a shit about the world wars and history in general. There are many players like TWC_Sp00k who have fantasy avatars of orcs in flight gear, etc. that indicate to me that they are not so interested in the history behind the game. They are more interested in the thrill of the kill. 

 

In one reading in-game chute killing and kill tallying is a symptom of the current times we live in (spoiled brats, abundant fossil energy, computer interfaces, internet networks, etc.).

 

But in another reading this is simply a symptom of human nature (there will always be people interested in killing for the sake of killing). The top aces during the world wars were killers with killer instincts - they had to get in behind other people in airplanes and pump lead into their fuselages in real-time, knowing full well that the pilots stood a good chance of burning alive on the way down. They probably got a thrill out of it. They were in their early twenties and didn't know shit about history or the broader world in which they existed. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Pericles

[SIA_Sp00k]

8 hours ago, Pericles said:

 

I think it would be interesting to get a sense of how many IL2 players actually give a shit about the world wars and history in general. There are many players like TWC_Sp00k who have fantasy avatars of orcs in flight gear, etc. that indicate to me that they are not so interested in the history behind the game. They are more interested in the thrill of the kill. 

 

In one reading in-game chute killing and kill tallying is a symptom of the current times we live in (spoiled brats, abundant fossil energy, computer interfaces, internet networks, etc.).

 

But in another reading this is simply a symptom of human nature (there will always be people interested in killing for the sake of killing). The top aces during the world wars were killers with killer instincts - they had to get in behind other people in airplanes and pump lead into their fuselages in real-time, knowing full well that the pilots stood a good chance of burning alive on the way down. They probably got a thrill out of it. They were in their early twenties and didn't know shit about history or the broader world in which they existed. 

 

I know my history!. I’ve studied all the classics.  

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by TWC_Sp00k

[Gambit21]

14 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

On another discussion on this forum an actual scan of Combat Report from a U.S. pilot was posted. Do not know if it was official policy, but obviously officially sanctioned,  he clearly stated the he killed Two German pilots after they had bailed.

 

The practice was not prohibited, but not "policy" and was not widespread on either side.

Each pilot made his own decision on that one.

 

This in contrast to the Pacific where it was very common on both sides.

[Monksilver]

On 7/5/2020 at 3:03 AM, TWC_Sp00k said:

If I see ANY of you meat bags in a chute and I can line you up while still covering my perfectly formed bubble shaped a55, a small shiver of pure joy will emanate from my being as I squeeze the trigger and watch each magnificent shell tear into your water bag forms.

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

 

I know my history!. I’ve studied all the classics.  

 

 

Combining your 2 posts I take it  your squadron motto is not "Per adua ad astra" but the  "Vae victis" of Brennus.  

 

"Woe the vanquished" for those who don't want to have to google it.

[SIA_Sp00k]

Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt

 

"Kill them all and let God sort them out"  

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

On 7/24/2020 at 3:44 AM, HR_Tofolo said:

What a butthurt the OP is, trying to do on the forums what he cannot accomplish ingame.

 

Posting an image to accuse a member who, BTW, doesn't sistematically chute shoot . If you knew more about him, you would realize that if you're shot will hanging on the chute it's because he knows who that pilot is. 

 

 

-S- Tofolo!

 

It seems that you write here before reading the whole post that i made.

 

I believe that.. the one that dont know anything about the person  who was making chute killing in the image is you. ( He had videos while killing pilots bailing out, several acussations of the same thing by other virtual pilots.. etc )

 

Knowing or not knowing who was the person that are fliying the enemy plane, dont justify the fact of attacking something ( or someone ) that cant defence by itself after being shoot down.

 

Doing parachute killing is a direct reflect of what kind of person/player you are ( its more a psycological or even political thing), and eventually shows the lack of respect agains the enemy.

 

-S- Saludos!!

[=RS=Stix_09]

Yes cute killing did happen in ww2, but on opposite site  there was even a case of enemy pilot escorting a damaged plane with visible wounded back over the lines. The polish for a extreme example , hated the Germans and did pilot kill. They wanted to kill pilots not planes, in general though most were trying to down planes, not pilots.

 

Regarding history:

History does not always make fun game play, and not everyone has to be into the history of ww2 to play and have fun with others online. Myself I am into history (or we are doomed to repeat  the mistakes over and over, and  have learnt nothing, plus some of it is damn interesting) , but I would rather have fun game play over accurate history in mplayer, without any doubts.

 

Doesn't mean you can't have both, but fun gameplay always overrides historic accuracy IMHO. There is no one play style that fits all, or personality type playing, but the aim should always be to have fun for not only you but other people too, so adopt a play style the is fun for all.

 

And for historic accuracy , don't sit in that chute  providing coms/rcon  to your team or you deserve to be shot at, finish and get a new plane. No pilot on a parachute in ww2 had a radio talking to his teammates like we do on our computers.

Edited July 27, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[THERION]

16 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

Yes cute killing did happen in ww2

 

Are you sure, mate? I don't think so. It wasn't cute at all for nobody... 

 

But concerning chute killing, you are absolutely right.

[=RS=Stix_09]

well ya, can't argue with that logic ?

[Heckpupper]

On 7/4/2020 at 7:12 PM, busdriver said:

 

You're daft mate...show us some documentation.

 

'm not the OP you responded to, but in one of the interviews available on YouTube Bud Anderson mentions that at some point they realized that killing pilots was considered very important to him and his buddies. He doesn't specifically mention shooting parachutes or strafing crash landed planes, but it's implied.

[busdriver]

1 hour ago, ACG_Onebad said:

 

'm not the OP you responded to, but in one of the interviews available on YouTube Bud Anderson mentions that at some point they realized that killing pilots was considered very important to him and his buddies. He doesn't specifically mention shooting parachutes or strafing crash landed planes, but it's implied.

 

I'm claiming 8th Fighter Command did not promulgate (i.e. to make known during mission briefings; publish a directive; proclaim formally or put into operation) an OFFICIAL POLICY to kill German pilots. Which is not to say 8th Fighter Command took a dim view of, or punished 8th FC fighter pilots for killing German pilots bailing/baling out or hanging in their chutes. This act (the notion of killing an enemy who was hors de combat) was not outlawed by the Geneva Conventions until 1949.