What is "hardcore"?

[DickDong]

There are soo many different opinions who cares what everyone else's is, find your play style and others who match up with it and enjoy it. Teamwork, accurately modeled aircraft in every aspect only make up a portion of the equation. It's the mindset that differs between hardcore and anything else.

 

Furious we know you don't like other IL2 titles due to your responses but ask any real life pilot who does this if takeoff and landing should be the hardest part.....wrong. There's a reason basic airmanship aka landing & formation are considered admin portions of real world flights.

Edited May 13, 2014 by jarhead2b

[FuriousMeow]

I do apologise but that was the impression you gave me. See, I have no problem with MP servers running zero AI, I'll just avoid them and find the ones that do. Both camps are happy then, no?

 

I don't believe MP needs AI. It can be utilized, and it can provide filler until more humans are online - but all of these planes in BoS will be developed with the intent of humans controlling them. So long as humans have a given intent to control them, then AI isn't needed. It can fill in, but it isn't needed if the roles can be filled by humans and as long as the incentive is there for humans to control them then the AI is meaningless.

Furious we know you don't like other IL2 titles due to your responses but ask any real life pilot who does this if takeoff and landing should be the hardest part.....wrong. There's a reason basic airmanship aka landing & formation are considered admin portions of real world flights.

 

I played Il-2 from its start to 1946. I purchased CLoD, and it was a turd. I always hated Il2's ground modelling. Go try the same thing you do in Il2 in any real plane, you'll be banged up in a ditch very quickly. Go try it in any simulator that properly models ground handling, same thing. Go compare nose wheel equipped aircraft against tail draggers, "for some reason" they don't operate the same and tail draggers are far more difficult.

 

There's even a famous quote that flying is easy, but returning from it is the most difficult part. Landing is so easy that professional pilots bounce down the runways very frequently. Flying isn't hard, thats why the instructors get you into the air and land for you first but let you control in the air. If flying were the harder part, you'd not touch any controls from start to finish but unsurprisingly the first place they let you touch the controls is in the air after the flaps are retracted and you are comfortably cruising - because the flying part is the easiest.

 

You can't side slip down a runway in the real world, you'll either have no tires/landing gear/or balled up in a hung of aluminium somewhere - but that is of no consquence with the Il-2 series.

Edited May 14, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[DickDong]

I don't believe MP needs AI. It can be utilized, and it can provide filler until more humans are online - but all of these planes in BoS will be developed with the intent of humans controlling them. So long as humans have a given intent to control them, then AI isn't needed. It can fill in, but it isn't needed if the roles can be filled by humans and as long as the incentive is there for humans to control them then the AI is meaningless.

 

I played Il-2 from its start to 1946. I purchased CLoD, and it was a turd. I always hated Il2's ground modelling. Go try the same thing you do in Il2 in any real plane, you'll be banged up in a ditch very quickly. Go try it in any simulator that properly models ground handling, same thing. Go compare nose wheel equipped aircraft against tail draggers, "for some reason" they don't operate the same and tail draggers are far more difficult.

 

There's even a famous quote that flying is easy, but returning from it is the most difficult part. Landing is so easy that professional pilots bounce down the runways very frequently. Flying isn't hard, thats why the instructors get you into the air and land for you first but let you control in the air. If flying were the harder part, you'd not touch any controls from start to finish but unsurprisingly the first place they let you touch the controls is in the air after the flaps are retracted and you are comfortably cruising - because the flying part is the easiest.

Your quote only applies to A to B flying non military flyers which isn't represented by this game. I do let my students touch the controls form the get go, but that is once again in regards to civilian flying.  In military flying with an exception of landing on a boat and even then it becomes fairly routine during daytime with "behind the boat " experience...landing is considered the easy part of flight aka admin portion of any military flight... if you knew me, you'd know I wasn't spouting off bs.

Edited May 14, 2014 by jarhead2b

[FuriousMeow]

Sure, its easy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

 

There's a reason so many are failing at properly landing here, but its more accurately modeled (its not 100%, no PC game will be in the next several hundred years) as compared to the Il-2 series that was extremely forgiving.

Edited May 14, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[DickDong]

Sure, its easy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

 

There's a reason so many are failing at properly landing here, but its more accurately modeled (its not 100%, no PC game will be in the next several hundred years) as compared to the Il-2 series that was extremely forgiving.

I would argue back since I've taught students who went to Asiana at 250 hrs hoping to jump in a jumbo jet but that is a whole another discussion for Airline Pilot Forums.

[FuriousMeow]

Well I don't get it how flying is harder than actually landing. Flying is maintaining a heading, keeping it level, and unless you hit a freak instant tornado, the plane stays in the air. Landing is judging the proper approach, maintaining alignment with the landing strip touching down cleanly and maintaining an sustained touch down so that (in a tricycle configuration) you don't slam your nose into the landing strip. Flying is just making sure you don't hit another airplane. WWII had tons of pilots killed in training accidents, and most were landing.

 

But most importantly - and why you brought this up - you can't side slip down a runway like you can in the Il-2 series. Unless there's a glass runway out there covered in lubircant and the wheels are made out of jelly. The old Il-2 series has zero ground handling, zero ground modelling and may as well just have been air start.

Edited May 14, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Panzerlang]

I don't believe MP needs AI. It can be utilized, and it can provide filler until more humans are online - but all of these planes in BoS will be developed with the intent of humans controlling them. So long as humans have a given intent to control them, then AI isn't needed. It can fill in, but it isn't needed if the roles can be filled by humans and as long as the incentive is there for humans to control them then the AI is meaningless.

 

 

But there you go again. Instead of saying "I don't need AI" you say "MP doesn't need AI". To suit your style of play. A style that's happy to assume almost every pilot you meet is competant and confident enough to throw his plane around to its limits when the reality was quite the opposite. What is it you wish to obtain, virtual air combat as a competitive sport or as a historically accurate experience? That's a rhetorical question I guess.

[Cybermat47]

Uh... why are you all arguing? Calm the hell down guys, it's just a game. There are lots of better things to argue about. The last time I saw an argument like this, it was about if it's right to kill someone when they're running away with stuff they stole from you. Arguing over a game is just silly, and you're better than this. Rather than focusing on the differences you guys have, why not just focus on the things you have in common?

Edited May 14, 2014 by [AJSA]_Cybermat47

[Panzerlang]

Uh... why are you all arguing? Calm the hell down guys, it's just a game. There are lots of better things to argue about. The last time I saw an argument like this, it was about if it's right to kill someone when they're running away with stuff they stole from you. Arguing over a game is just silly, and you're better than this. Rather than focusing on the differences you guys have, why not just focus on the things you have in common?

 

'Arguments' like this inform and potentially influence the devs in what they choose to include/exclude and/or devote attention/improvement to.

[wtornado]

S!

 

HARDCORE:-> real as it was

 

Pilot join the air force

 

Pilot have a lot lot of learning

 

Pilot have a lot of training

 

Pilot is designated to an squad

 

Pilot is assigned to a mission

 

Pilot study the briefing a lot

 

Pilot waste 15 min to start the engine and checks

 

Pilot waste 20 min taxing

 

Pilot climb to 7000m

 

Pilot fly 500km to target, cheking the plane conditions all the time, taking care of fuel and engine, navigating, serching for enemys,  avoiding the flak and praying to not die

 

After 3-4 hours pilot see nothing and get back home.....or.....

 

Pilot found the enemy an go to combat

 

 

Pilot die. Game over. or...

 

Pilot get worried about yous mates...get worried about the mission goals ....achieve his goals(1 plane or 1-5 tanks or escort)....pilot head back home-

 

 

Pilot fly another 500km

 

Pilot waste 30min to decent and land

 

Pilot waste 20 min in debrief -

 

Entire mission: 5-6 hour, 0-1 kill, a lot of adrenaline, maybe some enjuries

 

 

 

MIDCORE -> Enjoy the goodies and avoid the boring of reality

 

Pilot join the air force   - Pilot buys the game

 

Pilot have a lot lot of learning  - pilot watch some Requiems videos and read some tutorials

 

Pilot have a lot of training - pilot waste 30 min training

 

Pilot is designated to an squad - pilot make some friends and subscribe to online war

 

Pilot is assigned to a mission - pilot choose the server

 

Pilot study the briefing a lot -  pilot plans an strategic mission

 

Pilot waste 15 min to start the engine and checks -Pilot make a generic and quickly startup

 

Pilot waste 20 min taxing - Plane is in the position already

 

Pilot climb to 7000m - Pilot climb to 2000m-5000m

 

Pilot fly 500km to target, cheking the plane conditions all the time, taking care of fuel and engine, navigating, serching for enemys,  avoiding the flak and praying to not die

 

Pilot fly 200km to target, cheking the plane conditions all the time, taking care of fuel and engine, navigating, serching for enemys,  avoiding the flak and praying to not die

 

After 3-4 hours pilot see nothing and get back home.....or.....

 

Pilot found the enemy an go to combat -Pilot is amlost sure will find combat

 

 

Pilot die. Game over. or....- Pilot hits refly

 

Pilot get worried about yous mates...get worried about the mission goals ....achieve his goals(1 plane or 1-5 tanks or escort)....pilot head back home-

Pilot get worried about yous mates...get worried about the mission goals ....achieve his goals(1 plane or 1-5 tanks or escort)....pilot head back home-

 

Pilot fly another 500km - Pilot fly another 200km -

 

Pilot waste 30min to decent and land - Pilot land and exit quickly

 

Pilot waste 20 min in debrief - Pilot see mission results and check the front line

 

Entire mission: 5-6 hour, 0-1 kill, a lot of adrenaline, maybe some enjuries-   Entire mission: 1-2 hour, 0-1 kill, a lot of adrenaline, no enjuries

 

 

 

Arcade:

 

Pilot buy a game (BoS ??????????)

 

Pilot choose the server

 

Pilots Hit E, slam the throttle and take of

 

Pilot Kills 10 people

 

Pilot bail out or die

 

 

Pilot can't land because the airfiled is for respaw

 

Pilot hit Refly

 

 

Make your choice

Hehehehehe I like the explanation and the most important aspect of what was written was that pilot buys the game

so they get the sale.Hell even they ''hardcore ''airforce pilot will buy it once he is on R&R lol.

 

From full switch settings to full real settings and arcade

the important part is getting all types of servers up to get

the clients that BOUGHT the game into  their favorite

flying scenarios.

 

Whenever people talk about settings it is about me myself and I hahaha. 

 

Ah and but first one must release a nice finished product that everyone praises.

[siipperi]

 

 

At least we have proper ground handling modeling, trees that will actually mean something if you hit them, rockets that are as accurate as bottle rockets that is far more historically accurate, and much much more. "Hardcore game" this actually is, thats why so many people can't land worth a damn. Take the other clickpits "this is so awesome simulation" and the most difficult part of flying is the easiest, that being the part that involves getting into and returning from the air.

Shots taken against another flight sim! 

 

 

I think these hardcore,medium,casual terms are combination how much you invest your time and dedication towards the content and what it offers you. So lets say, game offers you different difficulty tiers towards the content: hardcore picks up the hardest and invest the most time towards to that, meanwhile casual players picks up easiest/moderate difficulty and spends less time to achieve his/hers goals. Then we can add amount of money person is willing to invest towards their game and gaming experience, so it's basically hardware: computer and accessories such as mouse, headphones, joystick, you name it.

 

Most of all I think HC players know their stuff, no matter of game. On flight sims it might be something like knowing exactly how your plane performs under certain actions and knowing planes you use fully and how they act. On other games it might be something like knowing every corner of map, know best tactics/camping spots, know best skill rotations, etc. But in the end it always comes down to dedication and time you consume with the game.

[wtornado]

Flight sims are on the endangered species list.

 

Not enough sales no salary for the guys making them.

 

Tablets,consoles and mini laptops are adding to the problem.

[Feathered_IV]

Flight sims used to be AAA list titles. This was before all features that made them great were dumped in favour of increasingly complex FM and an empty sandbox.

[wtornado]

Very true Feathered_IV

 

We had and flew 1946 for a decade.

 

I think it Started with LOCK ON with a game that many of us bought and everyone lost interest in.

It became an elite only club after that and then came Clod ''the alpha-beta game that could not run''

with its elite community doing a fantastic job fixing it...with the ''the few''using it with that same

complex FM and complex engine management FR environment.60$ spent there too the same week

it came out.I admit I was not happy buying a Alpha release.

 

Microsoft seen it coming and got out of making joysticks etc and though there were rumors of Microsoft

Flight reborn and then scraped again in 2012  the small market all but disappeared.

 

Logitech went the same way with just one joystick left. 

 

I know one thing for sure this is my last powerful tabletop I will know by fall if I will be still flying or retire

the old pilot's cap