Question on P-47 engine controls

[Legioneod]

36 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Guess again!

 

A few things to consider with the D-22 in the 150 test. It has wing racks which cost about 4-5mph iirc. It also was using a curtis electric propeller which cost around 7-8mph iirc, and then it's also at full combat load at 13,200lbs (full fuel load, 300 rounds per gun, etc) the wight probably cost it speed as well.

 

So just figuring these few things in I'd expect a D-22 with half fuel and clean configuration to be at least 10-15mph faster than the one in the test. So while it's not a big increase in speed it's still decent imo.

[mattebubben]

21 minutes ago, =X51=VC_ said:

 

This bugs me a little. I know it works in game, but I don't understand why it should from a real life standpoint. What physics is at play here? Or is this just a quirk of the game modelling?

I could be wrong.

But the way i had it explained is that at a certain point the large prop will generate enough drag to prevent it from reaching a higher speed,

and reducing the RPM / prop pitch slightly will reduce that drag thus allowing a higher top speed.

 

Though there is probably somebody else that could explain it better.

Edited June 27, 2020 by mattebubben

[Talon_]

28 minutes ago, mattebubben said:

And what is the source for that graph?

 

 

[MadkiteMadkite]

Shes not the fastest down low. 

 

But if you know how to mange her shes quite competitive. 

 

It would have be really rare to be facing 109K4. And often you would have met much older models. Which it would have been faster than at all altitudes.  

 

You can't turn fight except with the flap bug currently. It does not accelerate well and you lose all your speed. And its a big heavy brick. 

 

You fight just like you do in a FW190. High yoyo's and energy fighting. Unless its a FW190. The one plane you can out turn. 

 

And you have loads of ammo. So if you have a shot take it. All planes are crap when crippled.     

[=X51=VC_]

1 hour ago, mattebubben said:

I could be wrong.

But the way i had it explained is that at a certain point the large prop will generate enough drag to prevent it from reaching a higher speed,

and reducing the RPM / prop pitch slightly will reduce that drag thus allowing a higher top speed.

 

Though there is probably somebody else that could explain it better.

 

That makes sense, lowering the RPM would force a coarser prop pitch and that would reduce the drag of the prop disc as a whole. But it would also reduce your power output, I guess not by enough to cancel the drag benefit? What still bugs me is why do you have to "trick" the prop into coarsening the pitch by reducing RPM? It's a CSP, that's exactly what it should be doing automatically as you go faster.

[mattebubben]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

As Legioneod stated we need to consider the condition of the P-47 in that test.

"

Condition of Aircraft Relative to Tests

       A.   Flight tests were conducted at a take-off gross weight of 13,230 lbs. with the c.g. at 29.9 MAC, wheels up. This weight corresponds to the full combat weight of the airplane and includes full internal fuel, 15 gallons of water and ballast for 300 rounds of ammunition per gun.

       B.   All tests were conducted with landing gear retracted and wing flaps neutral. In level flight the cowl flaps were closed and the oil and intercooler flaps neutral; in climb cowl flaps, oil intercooler flaps were wide open. Gun blast tubes and wing racks were installed and all antennae were in place.

       C.   The airplane was finished with standard, service camouflage finish. "

 

()

As that has an impact on the speed .

So a Clean D-22 with no racks and half fuel etc will have a higher top speed then that of the P-47 in that test.

(also what was the configuration of the P-51s in those test?,Pylons? Fuel Load? etc)

 

Yes a P-51 (even with 100 octane) will still be faster

but this will reduce the gap somewhat as compared to the D-28 with 100 octane.

Edited June 27, 2020 by mattebubben

[dburne]

2 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Three basic things:

- Throttle

- RPM

- Turbo

 

Then you have:

- Cowl flaps

- Intercooler flaps

- Oil radiator

 

And finally the P-47 has water injection activated by the boost control switch. Turn that on to get extra power. If you're not doing that you aren't going to get maximum speed.

 

Ok before I decide to totally throw in the towel on this one.

Can you kindly elaborate on the items above and how they should be manipulated for flight?

I know RPM ok. Turbo I link to throttle and assume that takes care of that, though not sure how to tell if it is working. 

How to manipulate Cowl flaps, Intercooler flaps, and Oil Radiator?

When to activate water injection ?

 

If I can wrap my arms around these I may keep trying. 

Thanks for any help.

Edited June 27, 2020 by dburne

[Legioneod]

6 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Ok before I decide to totally throw in the towel on this one.

Can you kindly elaborate on the items above and how they should be manipulated for flight?

I know RPM ok. Turbo I link to throttle and assume that takes care of that, though not sure how to tell if it is working. 

How to manipulate Cowl flaps, Intercooler flaps, and Oil Radiator?

When to activate water injection ?

 

If I can wrap my arms around these I may keep trying. 

Thanks for any help.

Cowl flaps keep closed in flight for the most part, only open them when climbing to prevent overheating. Oil/Intercooler shutters just keep neutral, only open them more if you start to overheat. You can also close them if you want slightly more speed (imo its not really beneficial so I just keep them neutral).

 

So currently the max you can go without water injection is 52" which is about 2000HP this is pretty much combat power and you can use it for 15min. Water Injection allows for an increase to 64" (2600HP) so use the water injection when you need that extra bit of power, you only have 5 min worth in-game before needing to recharge.

 

When going WEP just push everything forward and don't worry about adjusting it for the most part, just keep an eye on your temps and the clock and you'll be good.

[dburne]

11 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Cowl flaps keep closed in flight for the most part, only open them when climbing to prevent overheating. Oil/Intercooler shutters just keep neutral, only open them more if you start to overheat. You can also close them if you want slightly more speed (imo its not really beneficial so I just keep them neutral).

 

So currently the max you can go without water injection is 52" which is about 2000HP this is pretty much combat power and you can use it for 15min. Water Injection allows for an increase to 64" (2600HP) so use the water injection when you need that extra bit of power, you only have 5 min worth in-game before needing to recharge.

 

When going WEP just push everything forward and don't worry about adjusting it for the most part, just keep an eye on your temps and the clock and you'll be good.

 

Ok thanks. I guess best to assign these cowl flaps and shutters to axis so I know when at neutral and closed for cowl flaps?

Edited June 27, 2020 by dburne

[Legioneod]

Just now, dburne said:

 

Ok thanks. I guess best to assign these cowl flaps and shutters to axis so I know when at neutral?

You can just look to the left and there's an indicator that tells you when they're neutral. You can also just use tech chat and put it at 50%.

[dburne]

6 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

You can just look to the left and there's an indicator that tells you when they're neutral. You can also just use tech chat and put it at 50%.

 

Ok thanks.

[mattebubben]

Dburne.

Do you have Skype or Discord or something?

If you want we could do a training session.

Either right now (Though its getting late for me)

or tomorrow etc whatever suits you.

 

Dont give up on the P-47.

Its a little tricky but its worth it.

And i would be happy to help.

Edited June 27, 2020 by mattebubben

[dburne]

3 hours ago, mattebubben said:

Dburne.

Do you have Skype or Discord or something?

If you want we could do a training session.

Either right now (Though its getting late for me)

or tomorrow etc whatever suits you.

 

Dont give up on the P-47.

Its a little tricky but its worth it.

And i would be happy to help.

 

 

Thanks so much for the offer, I am not much for online stuff though so I will keep trying and see if I can get my arms wrapped around this thing.

Going to hook up my CH Throttle quadrant probably tomorrow to get some extra axis and buttons to use. Turbo, Boost, Water Injectors, cowl and inlet flaps. At my old age I can confuse fairly easily. Mind ain't what it used to be either.

I was just frustrated as I was pretty sure I could not keep up even with a Sopwith Camel if I wanted to LOL.

I guess the Spit MK IX and P-51 kind of spoiled me with most things being so automated. And I can fly the piss out of those.

 

I love the looks of the P-47 and that cockpit is just drop dead gorgeous. Love when I first climb into it on the airfield in VR, start up that engine, and begin my taxi to the runway.  I just need to figure out how to be competitive with the AI in it now. 3 Missions into my PWCG campaign and I have nothing but goose eggs to show for it lol. Only thing I have damaged so far is my pride. 

[kendo]

6 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Ok before I decide to totally throw in the towel on this one.

Can you kindly elaborate on the items above and how they should be manipulated for flight?

I know RPM ok. Turbo I link to throttle and assume that takes care of that, though not sure how to tell if it is working. 

How to manipulate Cowl flaps, Intercooler flaps, and Oil Radiator?

When to activate water injection ?

 

If I can wrap my arms around these I may keep trying. 

Thanks for any help.

 

Please take a look at Sheriff's  Engine Management video, posted on page 1. It helped me hugely to get my head around how the P-47 works (and I took some notes of his suggested settings on a 'cheat sheet' for use later, which helped). At first it can seem confusing and a little overwhelming, but as others have said, a lot of the controls can just be set and then not worried about too much after.

Edited June 28, 2020 by kendo

[dburne]

7 hours ago, kendo said:

 

Please take a look at Sheriff's  Engine Management video, posted on page 1. It helped me hugely to get my head around how the P-47 works (and I took some notes of his suggested settings on a 'cheat sheet' for use later, which helped). At first it can seem confusing and a little overwhelming, but as others have said, a lot of the controls can just be set and then not worried about too much after.

 

Ok will do little later on today, thanks.

[dburne]

Ok got my CH Throttle Quadrant hooked up to compliment the Warthog throttle. I think it will be easier for me to have these engine adjustments on axis.

Had a quick glance at that Video, going to go back through it and take some notes now. This I think will help me indeed, thanks for the suggestion.

If I can get this thing over 300 mph I will feel better about it, as so far about 250 was about all I could muster.

I will persevere!

 

[CountZero]

27 minutes ago, dburne said:

Ok got my CH Throttle Quadrant hooked up to compliment the Warthog throttle. I think it will be easier for me to have these engine adjustments on axis.

Had a quick glance at that Video, going to go back through it and take some notes now. This I think will help me indeed, thanks for the suggestion.

If I can get this thing over 300 mph I will feel better about it, as so far about 250 was about all I could muster.

I will persevere!

 

Even on continuous (42MP 2550rpm) you can do abow 250mph ias on most alts(270-280). Close outlet cowlings full, oil closed full inlet at 50%, and turbo you can just place at 100% and dont even tuch it and use autolevel. Mix also you can have at auto, mix 100% is only good when using boost.

And most of flight you have to fly on continuous as combat is recharging 2x long so you cant just use it at start to get to alt and then wait 30min to recharg it, your flying at speeds below 300mph all the time, and if your not using autolevel when level you will have problems geting abow 250 even if all you do is right, so i dont think your doing anything wrong, 250 is around what you should expect if your not using autolevel and your flying on ~42" and ~2550rpm (and on autumn temp maps, on summer ones your gona be even slower).

Edited June 28, 2020 by CountZero

[dburne]

11 hours ago, kendo said:

 

Please take a look at Sheriff's  Engine Management video, posted on page 1. It helped me hugely to get my head around how the P-47 works (and I took some notes of his suggested settings on a 'cheat sheet' for use later, which helped). At first it can seem confusing and a little overwhelming, but as others have said, a lot of the controls can just be set and then not worried about too much after.

 

 

Ok got everything assigned best way for me and have been testing alone on the map.

Now I am starting to get my arms wrapped around this thing.  Thanks for the pointer to the vid.

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Even on continuous (42MP 2550rpm) you can do abow 250mph ias on most alts(270-280). Close outlet cowlings full, oil closed full inlet at 50%, and turbo you can just place at 100% and dont even tuch it and use autolevel. Mix also you can have at auto, mix 100% is only good when using boost.

And most of flight you have to fly on continuous as combat is recharging 2x long so you cant just use it at start to get to alt and then wait 30min to recharg it, your flying at speeds below 300mph all the time, and if your not using autolevel when level you will have problems geting abow 250 even if all you do is right, so i dont think your doing anything wrong, 250 is around what you should expect if your not using autolevel and your flying on ~42" and ~2550rpm (and on autumn temp maps, on summer ones your gona be even slower).

 

Sounds good, thanks for the tips!

[dburne]

Whoee, now I am getting somewhere!

Just blew some ground targets up  and got my first air to air kill shooting a 190 down in my new PWCG campaign.

 

Thanks so much everyone!