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Historical Mission Making - How's That Possible ?


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Posted (edited)

Been trying to re-create some historical Nazi invasion happening May 1940.

 

But alas I'll have to forget about making something historical. You cannot do it with the Rheinland Map as it is published.

For me IL2 from now on is clearly a non historical but nice!!! game.

As such i now feel free put an UFO (with added GOD-mode please) on my plane-wishlist too, besides a flyable C47 ?.

 

Example: an area i know well is around The Hague,  in Il2 here pictured probably from around 1900:

 

MAP The Hague Rheinland.jpg

 

Above seems to be almost sheer fantasy; checking the local government's map from 1933 is totally different, city layout is weird, with too much not there:

 

MAP Den Haag 1933.jpg

 

At IL2 they must have looked at this map from 1909, but some canals are missing, there already in 1850 before the harbor:

 

MAP Den Haag 1905.jpg

 

Edited by jollyjack
  • Like 1
Posted
58 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Been trying to re-create some historical Nazi invasion happening May 1940.

 

But alas I'll have to forget about making something historical. You cannot do it with the Rheinland Map as it is published.

 


The Rheinland map is made for the Allied liberation of France, Belgium, and Holland, and the invasion of Germany in 1944-45, not the German invasion in 1940.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jollyjack said:

 

But alas I'll have to forget about making something historical. You cannot do it with the Rheinland Map as it is published.

 

What are you talking about.

I don’t have a problem, Jaeger doesn’t have a problem...

 

Edited by Gambit21
  • Upvote 2
Jaegermeister
Posted

I think you are putting way too much emphasis on what that one particular city looks like. I guess a little melodrama never hurts though. Based on the maps you posted above, I would say The Hague looks pretty good. Way better than St. Vith with it’s 5 way intersection that's both important and not represented on the map at all.

 

When you are flying over a city at 350 mph in formation with someone shooting tracers at you or trying to adjust how many rockets are in a salvo, I guarantee no one is going to notice 2 city blocks are missing.

 

The fact that a city is represented in the correct location and we have airfields in the correct place is enough. You can do the rest to make it believable. I will admit it is easier on the winter map though. Placing buildings for a city in the middle of a field is not a great solution.

 

Also you can never really recreate a historical mission, just the circumstances. It always turns out slightly different.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

Reminds me of an old Bob Wills song:

 

 

Edited by jollyjack
Posted

That’s great - love that old music.

 

Your blamket statement reminds me of a different song.

 

You Make No Sense

 

 

 

 

  • Haha 1
Posted (edited)

Well, the older i get the more senselessness i've met .. especially with a WW2 so called non political war game, hows that, game running on an advanced PC set.

 

But Il2 is fun, although i cannot replay or change the History of our Heroic queen now when she fled, as the Rheinland map right now won't let me.

Edited by jollyjack
Posted
19 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Well, the older i get the more senselessness i've met .. especially with a WW2 so called non political war game, hows that, game running on an advanced PC set.

 

But Il2 is fun, although i cannot replay or change the History of our Heroic queen now when she fled, as the Rheinland map right now won't let me.

 

The only aircraft we currently have that's historically accurate for May 1940 is the Ju-52, so if that won't stop you, why will an inaccurate city layout stop you?

  • Haha 1
Posted (edited)

Salutations,

 

I am interested in and desire to put together some Tank Crew missions based at historical locations found in the reference books I have purchased about Patton's armored forces moving to relieve Bastogne (on Rheinland map). But during said research, towns and villages where the battles took place are not even presented. 

 

Example Towns- Martelange, Flatzbourhof (hamlet), Holtz, Wolwelange, Bigonville, Burnon, Menufontaine, Chaumont, Remoiville, Nives, Cobreville, Hollange

 

The list is not complete. Unfortunately, none of them are represented upon the Rheinland map. Obviously, that limits what can be done to recreate any historically based tank battles. ☹️

 

The Rheinland map obviously was not created for practical historical use with Tank Crew. I am not being overly critical... I'm just a mission builder that is disappointed about not being able to present a historical based series of armored battles during the Battle Of The Bulge.

 

Perhaps a singular map covering the BOTB area will be forthcoming or the area will be covered in the upcoming Normandy map.

 

If not... ☹️

Edited by Thad
  • Like 2
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Jaegermeister
Posted
1 minute ago, Thad said:

Perhaps a singular map covering the BOTB area will be forthcoming or the area will be covered in the upcoming Normandy map.

 

I think it was stated before BoBP was release that it was not optimized for the Battle of the Bulge. I'm not sure why not, since that was the critical buildup to Operation Bodenplatte.

The Ardennes wont be in the Normandy Map, but there are options ...

 

You can wait for TC 2 which may or may not be a detailed version of the Ardennes, Bastogne etc. Maybe that explains my observation above, they saved it for the next detailed TC map.

You can build the cities you want which might be less than satisfactory with the objects we have from a tank perspective. Mainly because the buildings are not interactive. I have tried doing an urban battle in Aachen and there are some problems with it.

 

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the tank versions aren't really set up for BotB, but that seems minor to me. Maybe not so much for others. 

I have found in the past that if the maps are not completely accurate, it becomes less of a problem in first person when you're in the mission. 

  • Like 1
Posted

Still better than Bastogne ?

Posted (edited)

Dunno if you've ever been to Bastogne, but there's a monument with a real Sherman tank taking part of every-day's life in town.

A shame that that town that among so many others where humanity suffered so much has been omitted. Rheinland is just unfinished business.

 

In my 'youth' there were still 2 Shermans left were they were abandoned near Weert NL (that's on the map), machine guns removed.

2 years ago i was there but they were alas gone now.

 

Bastogne Tank.jpg

Edited by jollyjack
  • Upvote 1
Posted

Uhh...Bastogne is on the map.

 

 

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Uhh...Bastogne is on the map.

 

 

 

Yes. The city was a key road hub. That's why the 101st was located there. Unfortunately, our map has only one road into or out of it.  ?

 

Bastogne.PNG

Edited by Thad
Posted

OOPs, you're right !!

Posted
19 hours ago, jollyjack said:

 although i cannot replay or change the History of our Heroic queen now when she fled, as the Rheinland map right now won't let me.

 

Didn't your heroic Queen flee all the way to Canada?  I don't think we've got a map of that either:)

Posted (edited)

Nope, the UK. f.i. the Danish King stayed put; and they say he called Hitlers office everyday, asking about his Jewish countrymen, why so many Danish Jews survived.

Not in Holland alas. Her beloved husband Bernard was seen in a Nazi uniform a few years before the invasion, nobody seems to remember ...

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/7377402/Dutch-Prince-Bernhard-was-member-of-Nazi-party.html

https://www.bilderberg.org/bernhard.htm

Edited by jollyjack
Posted
On 6/24/2020 at 10:40 AM, jollyjack said:

...nobody seems to remember.

 

There’s a lot of that going around right now. 

BraveSirRobin
Posted
7 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

There’s a lot of that going around right now. 


Not in the US.  Here there are lots of people suddenly learning things they never knew, but probably should have known.

Posted
Just now, BraveSirRobin said:


Not in the US.  

 

Very much here in the U.S.

BraveSirRobin
Posted
10 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Very much here in the U.S.


not so much, actually.  Lots of people learning lots of new things here.

Posted
15 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:


not so much, actually.  Lots of people learning lots of new things here.

 

Baaaaahhh

BraveSirRobin
Posted
3 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Baaaaahhh


Very eloquent.

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