Developer Diary 254 - Discussion

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Nice looking lineup!

I wish the Panzer III and IVs hard shurtzens.

Any chance to see the Prokhorovka map improved so patches of trees dont pop in and out of render constantly when flying over it? Other than that it looks incredible.

I might consider buying this, it looks incredible.

[Rjel]

I'm not familiar with this machine. Did the entire vehicle have to rotate towards its target to bring the cannon to bear?

[pilotpierre]

Tis a beast be sure, be sure for shore.

[Rustedgun]

Very informative write-up about this beast. I am really looking forward to it.

[Han]

40 minutes ago, Rjel said:

I'm not familiar with this machine. Did the entire vehicle have to rotate towards its target to bring the cannon to bear?

 

That is right. Like any other self-propelled gun of that period. 

[sonicapollo]

3 hours ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

I love Tank Crew 

I hope for a TC2 The Battle of the Bulge 

Quite appropriate. I actually can’t think of a better scenario than this, given that Afrika is off limits. 

[cardboard_killer]

1 hour ago, Rjel said:

I'm not familiar with this machine. Did the entire vehicle have to rotate towards its target to bring the cannon to bear?

 

Most Self Propelled guns have some limited traverse of the supersturcture mounted gun--Wikipedia states 28deg for the Elefant/Ferdnand. But otherwise, yes, the entire tank would need to be put in gear and move to bring the target within the limited traverse of the gun mount.

[ImaginativeTruth]

My two cents having seen the German tanks up close in Bovington:

 

1. Ferdinand - Huge and massively armoured, more than any other AFV I have seen. I'm 6 ft tall and pics below give idea of height of the Ferdinand!

2. Tiger 1 - Smaller than I expected it to be, lovely engine noise.

3. Panther - Huge! Much bigger than the Tiger 1, surprising given it is a medium tank and the Tiger is a heavy.

4. Panzer 3 - Very quiet engine - sounds like a regular bus engine!

 

 

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

i bet it was one hot drivers cab. image 2 engines up front during summer.

[MarderIV]

I wonder if they had to drop the whole engine just to change a bunch of air filters. You know . . . like a True Porsche (TM)

[MattS]

That thing is just begging for a Sticky Bomb*

 

 

* it's in the Field Manual

[DD_Arthur]

47 minutes ago, ImaginativeTruth said:

 

I'm 6 ft tall and pics below give idea of height of the Ferdinand!

But.....you’re not in the pictures.....

Nice pics btw?

[=FEW=fernando11]

2 hours ago, ImaginativeTruth said:

 

3. Panther - Huge! Much bigger than the Tiger 1, surprising given it is a medium tank and the Tiger is a heavy.

 

 

Hi

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but tiger being heavy, and panther being medium it's not necesarily about wheight/size, but how it was intended to be used acording to doctrine.

 

The "heavy" tank was meant to be employed in the atack, looking to make a brakethrough of a defended línea

Then the "medium" tanks where suposed to expolit the opening on the line, and advance far un the rear areas of the enemy.

 

This denomination by role and not weight means that the panther medium tank weights as much as others country heavy tanks

 

[migmadmarine]

5 hours ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

Nice looking lineup!

I wish the Panzer III and IVs hard shurtzens.

Any chance to see the Prokhorovka map improved so patches of trees dont pop in and out of render constantly when flying over it? Other than that it looks incredible.

I might consider buying this, it looks incredible.

Schurzen is a selectable modification for the Panzer III, IV and Panther. 

[Boomerang]

6 hours ago, ImaginativeTruth said:

Panther - Huge! Much bigger than the Tiger 1, surprising given it is a medium tank and the Tiger is a heavy.

This is a good point, i have no idea of the weight comparison between these two, maybe the weight has something to do with it?

Nice photo's, thank you for sharing. ?

[FeuerFliegen]

I hope the release of TC will bring lots of new players that aren't normally into flight sims, into the world of IL-2 Sturmovik and give us lots of new people to play against online.

 

Also... is this like Flying Circus, in that there won't be a career mode?  That would be very disappointing if so, especially as it may prevent some from purchasing it and becoming part of the community.

[Jaegermeister]

12 hours ago, Rjel said:

I'm not familiar with this machine. Did the entire vehicle have to rotate towards its target to bring the cannon to bear?

 

The Su122 and Su152 both have a limited horizontal traverse controlled by the gunner. It is enough to track a vehicle for a short distance before the driver needs to adjust position. I am guessing the Ferdinand will be similar. We'll see soon.

 

 

15 hours ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

I love Tank Crew 

I hope for a TC2 The Battle of the Bulge 

 

Well.. we have tanks... and we have the Rhineland Winter map... and we have the ME... What are you waiting for?

 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[Yogiflight]

58 minutes ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

Also... is this like Flying Circus, in that there won't be a career mode?  That would be very disappointing if so, especially as it may prevent some from purchasing it and becoming part of the community.

It was never planned to implement a career mode, and unfortunately, unlike FC, Pat won't do a campaign mode for it either.

With all the limitations of the AI, it is mainly an online game.

[ww2fighter20]

2 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Well.. we have tanks... and we have the Rhineland Winter map... and we have the ME... What are you waiting for?

 

Not one single tank/version that came with tank crew was used in the battle of Bulge.

The Rheinland map is simplified for aircraft so many towns/villages/other locations which where important for the battle weren't created and the ones that did are very simplified. (for example Bastogne has an randomly generated road/building layout).

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Well.. we have tanks... and we have the Rhineland Winter map... and we have the ME... What are you waiting for?

 

 

 

No ready yet  The map is in the borders of Bastonge. The quality of the map for ground warfare should be like the Prokhorovka in TC1.

 

Tanks missing ... Tiger II, Fireflys Sherman, etc

 

IMHO I would rather pay for a TC2 than a hack/mod style.

 

But I'm only human after all ...

But I will but the new Star Wars Squadrons as well for sure

Edited June 20, 2020 by =gRiJ=Roman-

[Thad]

16 minutes ago, ww2fighter20 said:

 

Not one single tank/version that came with tank crew was used in the battle of Bulge.

The Rheinland map is simplified for aircraft so many towns/villages/other locations which where important for the battle weren't created and the ones that did are very simplified. (for example Bastogne has an randomly generated road/building layout).

Salutations,

 

You are basically correct. That is why I hope and expect additional allied armor units to be forthcoming for Tank Crew and the BON module.

 

Your observations of the Rheinland map are also correct. I was planning to do a series of tank missions covering Pattons' armor in the Battle Of The Bulge. To include first contact with the enemy and so on. Unfortunately, towns involved in such battles aren't on the Rheinland map.

 

Therefore, I probably can't and won't be able to create such battles based upon historical locations. ?

[Jaws2002]

16 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Which explains it's lack of reliability and high cost of ownership.

 

 

 "Tell me the saddest story from WW2"

 

" Hans, the transmission broke".

Edited June 20, 2020 by Jaws2002

[Cybermat47]

4 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Well.. we have tanks... and we have the Rhineland Winter map... and we have the ME... What are you waiting for?

 

1 hour ago, ww2fighter20 said:

Not one single tank/version that came with tank crew was used in the battle of Bulge.

Yep, the German line would have to be replaced for the Bulge.

Panzer III Ausf. M -> StuG III Ausf. G

Panzer IV Ausf. G -> Panzer IV Ausf. H or J.

Panzer V Panther Ausf. D -> Panther Ausf. G

Panzer VI Ausf. H1 Tiger I -> Panzer VI Ausf. B Tiger II

Panzerjaeger Tiger (P) Ferdinand -> Sturmpanzer IV 
 

Edited June 20, 2020 by [Pb]Cybermat47

[Blitzen]

I read this announcement yesterday and this morning father giving this some thought I just wanted to thank the devs for this well written description and development of the Porsche Elephant. Its never been one of my favorite amour subjects and I only knew about its qualities on a superficial level. Dev’s development gave me quite a bit of information that I had never bothered to study.I’ll be very interested in taking it out on a test drive, but it won’t replace the Tiger or Panther . I can better understand why it was chosen ,because of its use in the Kursk battles and perhaps it could play a role in a revised in depth set of missions in scripted campaigns that more accurately depicted the battle in terms of numbers of tanks and their movements...

  Having said that I do wish the developers would go for at least one more tank : the King Tiger which might be well used on the upcoming Normandy map...Oh yes perhaps a variation on the Sherman like the “Firefly?”

[Jaws2002]

17 hours ago, Rjel said:

I'm not familiar with this machine. Did the entire vehicle have to rotate towards its target to bring the cannon to bear?

 

  Yes. It's a tank destroyer, so it's not supposed to drive around looking for trouble, but stop enemy armor in a certain area. The gun does traverse 14 degrees in each side, so if you place this thing to cover an open area, with clear field of fire for a long range, it can cover a pretty wide front.   That small, 28 degree, traverse will cover a 1500 meters wide front, at 3000m range, and that powerful gun could kill anything in that cone of fire. 

   If employed properly, with infantry cover,  that thing can do a lot of damage to an advancing army.  They ran into problems, when they were sent ahead blind, and outran their infantry and scouts. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Jaws2002

[cardboard_killer]

2 hours ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

Tiger II, Fireflys Sherman, etc

 

I'm not an tank expert, but I don't think any Sherman Fireflies operated around Bastogne, during the BotB at least. Those commonwealth forces that did operate did so on the northern shoulder of the battle, IIRC.

Edited June 20, 2020 by cardboard_killer

[Freycinet]

On 6/19/2020 at 8:08 PM, namhee2 said:

Important information for the opponents!

 

 

Also, it could actually be taken out by a P-47 bouncing its 50-cal bullets into the ground and through the soft underbelly of the beast.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Freycinet

[Raven109]

1 hour ago, Freycinet said:

 

Also, it could actually be taken out by a P-47 bouncing its 50-cal bullets into the ground and through the soft underbelly of the beast.

 

At the rate .50 cal threads are popping up lately, we won't have to wait much longer to have this serious discussion on this forum as well. History repeating itself....

 

 

[Jaws2002]

2 hours ago, Freycinet said:

 

Also, it could actually be taken out by a P-47 bouncing its 50-cal bullets into the ground and through the soft underbelly of the beast.

 

 Good fishing spot you found here.?

[Jade_Monkey]

2 hours ago, Freycinet said:

 

Also, it could actually be taken out by a P-47 bouncing its 50-cal bullets into the ground and through the soft underbelly of the beast.

 

It is a well known fact that allies sprayed the Normandy roads with Flubber at night, so when they shot .50 cals they would actually gain speed and penetration after bouncing off the ground.

[cardboard_killer]

9 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

It is a well known fact that allies sprayed the Normandy roads with Flubber at night, so when they shot .50 cals they would actually gain speed and penetration after bouncing off the ground.

 

I heard it was just the opposite--lest the bouncing .50cal bullets bounced so high that they shot down any allied a/c around. After going through the Elefant first of course.

[SCG_SchleiferGER]

Actually electric drivetrains have increased torque. (Look at all our heavy mining equipment of today)

And so does the Ferdinand. But it still has to few horsepower for the weight it carries.

Additionally to being overloaded it has gasoline engines which produce max hp at high rpm only. The result is that the vehicle had to stay in medium to high rpm almost all the time which gave it bad fuel consumption.

 

[inexus]

36 minutes ago, SchleiferGER said:

Actually electric drivetrains have increased torque. (Look at all our heavy mining equipment of today)

And so does the Ferdinand. But it still has to few horsepower for the weight it carries.

Additionally to being overloaded it has gasoline engines which produce max hp at high rpm only. The result is that the vehicle had to stay in medium to high rpm almost all the time which gave it bad fuel consumption.

 

 

Interesting! I love hearing all these particular details of the various vehicles from ww2 to get more of an appreciation of them and how/why they are modelled in a certain way. 

 

(BTW, I never heard about the flubber thing before too  )

Edited June 21, 2020 by inexus

[Cybermat47]

American scientists develops anti-tank road covering, c. 1944, colourised.

 

[Missionbug]

Great to see that beast finally ready for action, superb DD, thank yo very much to all involved.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[FTC_Tobi_der_Ossi]

21 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

 

Not one single tank/version that came with tank crew was used in the battle of Bulge.

The Rheinland map is simplified for aircraft so many towns/villages/other locations which where important for the battle weren't created and the ones that did are very simplified. (for example Bastogne has an randomly generated road/building layout).

 M4A2,Panzer 4 Ausf. G,Panzer 3 Ausf. M and Panzer 5 Ausf. D saw combat in 1944 on Western Front in the Area of the Bodenplatte Map. 

[cardboard_killer]

32 minutes ago, Tobi_der_Ossi said:

 M4A2,Panzer 4 Ausf. G,Panzer 3 Ausf. M and Panzer 5 Ausf. D saw combat in 1944 on Western Front in the Area of the Bodenplatte Map. 

 

The British used the M4A2 as the Sherman III; in US service only the Marines used them, all others were lend-leased to the USSR/British. The M4A2 used diesel engines instead of gas engines that the US preferred. The Marines preferred the diesel because Navy Landing Craft were diesel so it was easier logistics to use diesel for the PTO island landings.

 

The Pz IIIM and Pz VD probably had a handful of examples across the entire front left in use by late 1944-45. Only the Pz IVG would have significant numbers in service of the German tanks listed during late 1944-45.

[namhee2]

7 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

The British used the M4A2 as the Sherman III; in US service only the Marines used them, all others were lend-leased to the USSR/British. The M4A2 used diesel engines instead of gas engines that the US preferred. The Marines preferred the diesel because Navy Landing Craft were diesel so it was easier logistics to use diesel for the PTO island landings.

 

The Pz IIIM and Pz VD probably had a handful of examples across the entire front left in use by late 1944-45. Only the Pz IVG would have significant numbers in service of the German tanks listed during late 1944-45.

https://mikesresearch.com/2018/08/26/panzer-kompanie-mielke/

 

[cardboard_killer]

Exactly.

[FTC_Tobi_der_Ossi]

50 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

The British used the M4A2 as the Sherman III; in US service only the Marines used them, all others were lend-leased to the USSR/British. The M4A2 used diesel engines instead of gas engines that the US preferred. The Marines preferred the diesel because Navy Landing Craft were diesel so it was easier logistics to use diesel for the PTO island landings.

 

The Pz IIIM and Pz VD probably had a handful of examples across the entire front left in use by late 1944-45. Only the Pz IVG would have significant numbers in service of the German tanks listed during late 1944-45.

This Panzer 5 Ausf. D where still even in April 45 in regular service in the Units which recieved them. Those Tanks saw mixed service with Panther A and Panther G. For example the 12.th SS Panzerdivision. But even in 1945 should this number of Panther D higher than Ferdinands build in total.  As far as i know where the last Panzer 3 on the western front lost during the Ruhr Pocket. Many Units fought there from France to the Rhein that recieved in 1943 the last for combat built Variants. But it wasnt planned anyway to use this Vehicles on Tank on Tank Combat like it was planned pre war. It was rather more used like they where attached to the Heavy Tank Regiments.  But like you sayd, Sherman and Panzer 4 Ausf. G where normaly used there. Just the Sherman not by the Americans. Works fine on the Bodenplatte Map since the Push into northern Germany was done by British und Polish Forces anyway.