Fighters versus Bombers Population (On line)

[nynek]

The sad truth is the 300 furballers pay the bills, 300 AIs don't spend any money on flight sims.

 And that is a whole point of my post. No pilots=no sales, no sales=no sim, small sales=inability to fix sim after 20 or so months aka Clod.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

 And that is a whole point of my post. No pilots=no sales, no sales=no sim, small sales=inability to fix sim after 20 or so months aka Clod.

Yeah you are right too !!!

 

The Idea here is to improve bombers pilots life online at the same time we have a more realistic and balanced plane set in servers. Bomber improvement has nothing to do with fighter pilots having less fun. Fighters guys don't need such attention right now because if you want to furball, you can do it in any game and you will be welcome to furball here in BoS for sure.

Edited May 15, 2013 by JG62Gielow

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

My third suggestion to improve this subject and bomber survival is to release bomber modification kits as soon as possible. 

 

There was field modifications kits for bombers like the Ju 88 where you can install a 20mm cannon for the pilot or replace gunners 7.7mm MGs for 13mm guns.

 

Those kits could be sold by developer team for U$ 5,00 for example and it will make bomber pilots life very interesting.

 

 

From wikipedia about Ju 88:

 

 

Armament

• Guns:
  • 1 ????

Edited May 15, 2013 by JG62Gielow

[AndyJWest]

If you want to encourage bomber pilots, expecting them to pay extra for weapons modifications isn't the way to do it. It is too likely to be seen as pay-to-win. 

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

If you want to encourage bomber pilots, expecting them to pay extra for weapons modifications isn't the way to do it. It is too likely to be seen as pay-to-win.

 

Buying kits it is a suggestion that is aligned with 777 studios practices so far how we have may noticed in Rise of Flight.

 

If you dont want to buy anything you are free to do as you wish. Just say to your wingman to really fly in close formation In my case, I would have 13mm MGs covering every angle as soon as possible.

 

 

The extra money from kits, planes, etc will support game development and future expansions. Nowadays it is to be too naive in my opinion to think that someone will pay 50 dollars in a game and expect 10 years of new content.

 

The game industry economic model is changing and flight simulators have much less public than other games genres like FPS. The mixed model as James told us before is probably the best option to keep the planes flying and the software companies alive.

 

Anyway, bomber modifications were real and I hope that we can see this level of customization in game. If you like fighters maybe you can remove your armor plate for better all around view, just dont get shot son

Edited May 15, 2013 by JG62Gielow

[AndyJWest]

I'm well aware of how RoF weapons mods work - I've got most of them. My point was that this thread is supposedly about how to encourage more bomber pilots online - and you won't do that by charging them extra for the 'privilege' of standing a marginally-lower chance of getting shot down. What is needed is ways to make flying bombers more rewarding gameplay-wise.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I'm well aware of how RoF weapons mods work - I've got most of them. My point was that this thread is supposedly about how to encourage more bomber pilots online - and you won't do that by charging them extra for the 'privilege' of standing a marginally-lower chance of getting shot down. What is needed is ways to make flying bombers more rewarding gameplay-wise.

Yeah you are right !!! This topic is about suggestions. Do you have any??? Or just staying here saying that it is not going to work ??? It is a brain storm like topic. Don't be shy. Maybe something that you don't like now can turn into something cool in the future. Who knows ??? 

[AndyJWest]

Brain storming has to involve criticism too, if it is to get anywhere. As for suggestions, I think that others have offered quite a few good ones already. Maybe a leaderboard system that allowed 'best bomber pilots' to be shown, rather than simply 'best points-getter' would help - though awarding points for bombing is always going to be difficult, and we really need a system that doesn't rely on hitting small targets from altitude, but instead scores anywhere within a more realistic defined area. Otherwise, it may just come down to good mission design, so bombers have a realistic chance of completing missions - and this usually means having a decent chance of not meeting opposition, rather than having to rely on weaponry to shoot it out. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

If you want to encourage bomber pilots, expecting them to pay extra for weapons modifications isn't the way to do it. It is too likely to be seen as pay-to-win.

I have to agree 100% with you.

 

I hope that for BoS we do NOT have pay to win field mods like RoF does. It's one of the things I've liked least in RoF.

Edited May 16, 2013 by ElAurens

[senseispcc]

I know I shall sound like a old man from a past time but remember;

All the Lucasfilms "simulations" games and the coop missions in Il2 first versions(original) where you could put with a big PC as server a moderate lot of "no player" flown planes in the sky with bombers and fighters with sometime strange behaviours but how did care?!.

For me and it is a purely personal opinion flying a bomber is flying strait and level waiting to be shot down no fun.

Edited May 16, 2013 by senseispcc

[brook]

 

My third suggestion to improve this subject and bomber survival is to release bomber modification kits as soon as possible. 

 

There was field modifications kits for bombers like the Ju 88 where you can install a 20mm cannon for the pilot or replace gunners 7.7mm MGs for 13mm guns.

 

Those kits could be sold by developer team for U$ 5,00 for example and it will make bomber pilots life very interesting.

 

 

From wikipedia about Ju 88:

 

 

Armament

• Guns:
  • 1 ????

[nynek]

Keeping the game on a level playing field for all is what made il2 a great game, allowing players to have all types of mod that the average play does not will hurt the game . 

 

All players should have access to all options to keep the game fair and keep history aliened or we will all be back playing star wars in no time 

 

just my opinion

20 years ago in Airwarrior there was something called "Death Star". Seven guys crew B-17 and were just flying around shooting down everything that moved. There was no way to blast that fortres exept to dive into it. Somehow it has to be balanced between AI gunner skills and this 5 to 10% bomber loses. Personally I'm for making sniper gunners with maybe little less traverse speed as in original IL2.

Brook...there will be mods, no way around it. It's up to You to deploy them and play. For me UP, HSFX and DBW extended lifetime of Il2. We users of mods can only hope that mod designer is honest guy.

Individual upgrade of guns bombs etc. via payware I consider blasphemy. In reality U flew with what that day was available.

Update the game every half a year as an addon so everybody has the same platform to play from and we avoid sick competition. Let's stick to joystick and or rudder pedals movement in order to tell who is better.

Edited May 17, 2013 by nynek

[76SQN-FatherTed]

I expect we will have weapon mods to buy, but if the devs follow the RoF model on this, they won't unbalance online play because more firepower comes at the cost of reduced performance.

 

On topic, I think that the way to encourage people to take on bomber roles is to make the impact of their attacks affect what is happening during the mission, not just giving them points.  On the rare occasions that I shoot someone else down I get a buzz from knowing that I've "beaten" another player - any points I get are a side issue.  The problem with being a bomber pilot online is that you don't have that same direct effect on your opponent.

 

I know it's not very realistic, but if, as a bomber pilot you could knock out the supply of fuel, ammo or planes for the actual players on the other side by destroying a bridge, say, then you'd get instant satisfaction, and recognition (if that's what you're after).  You might also find that the furballers take an interest in protecting these targets from bombers, and maybe support the bombers on their own side so that they can damage the enemy fighter supply.

[csThor]

The sad truth is the 300 furballers pay the bills, 300 AIs don't spend any money on flight sims.

 

No, they don't but neither do have the 300 furballers any right to exclusiveness. There must be space for everyone - not just some primitive e-sports field for brawling with fighters.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I certainly cannot find fault with your post sir.

 

There should be room for all types of play in a properly designed sim, be it furballs or total role playing.

 

As small as our niche is we cannot afford to leave out any potential play styles.

Edited May 19, 2013 by ElAurens

[II./ZG2_Gaga]

We bomber pilots give the average Fighter jokey, "intense pleasure" at most cases.

 

We should actually get paid for playing on-line with the nasty fighter boys.

 

You fill us with your "out of this world" caliber cannons and have a great lough plus points at our expense.

 

However we win the wars..

 

We deserve better.

 

Give us the enviroment & the tools!

 

Thank you for your effort & time.

 

 

Ps. i like what ElAurens said. "There should be room for all types of play in a properly designed sim, be it furballs or total role playing.

As small as our niche is we cannot afford to leave out any potential play styles."

[csThor]

I certainly cannot find fault with your post sir.

 

There should be room for all types of play in a properly designed sim, be it furballs or total role playing.

 

As small as our niche is we cannot afford to leave out any potential play styles.

 

I wasn't suggesting anything else, but when one takes a look at how servers both in 1946 and CloD were set up it's blatantly obvious that true targets for medium bombers in the hinterland usually aren't part of the consideration that went into map making. I mean even in the BoB-themed CloD we got tank and vehicle convoys instead of real area-targets that would be the prime of bombers.

 

This means that there is a marked tendency to ignore bomber-specific requirements, perhaps because of an ignorance what bombers really did back in WW2 or what requirements bomber pilots may have. It's not done with malice aforethought, not at all ... but it seems to be there.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Great topic so far gentlemen. Now lets take a look on my suggestion number 4:

 

Seasonal events.

 

We could have especial missions, offensives or maybe a entire campaign in a week. It could be every week or month. We could have a mission briefing central where we could get the details about the event.

 

It would promote a gathering of pilots fighting for a common goal and giving bombers pilots a great importance on the outcome of those seasonal events.

 

What do you think??

[DUTTENHOFER]

The reasons I was drawn to bombers in RoF were almost entirely around the idea of flying my friendos into battle, calling out directions and watching intense situations simultaniously. I think if bomber planes are to be popular, they need to be treated as bombers and not fighters. I mean this in the fact that most games will make fighter planes first, where you sit in a cockpit, look around and steer; then when they make the bombers, they take the exact same approach. But these planes were not single seater, claustrophobia enducing roller coaster rides where they pull down the bar on you until the ride is over. Crews could get up, move around, switch positions, man the radio. But games really fail to facilitate this. And I know it's a lot to ask for a flight sim to give players the ability to walk around the interior of a ship, but no one want's to sit around looking at a window while the captain spends 40 minutes level-bombing. I'm not suggesting that we make the turret more fun and empowering through some kind of buff, but if we want people to have a good experience, they shouldn't be forced to spend their doomed life looking out a window where the only thing to see is snow and wind, with a machine gun super glued to their hands. 

 

Bombers can be the most fun when your invested in the plane with your friends and defending from the enemy. I've had a lot of great experiences with this, also in similar games like Guns of Icarus. But it's hard finding people who want to do this, because a lot of the time what happens is you see nothing, shoot nothing and can't move to look anywhere else. If we can't get the ability to go to another window, maybe we should throw in some tacked on application to bide the time, like poker, or old pin-up mags.

[brook]

20 years ago in Airwarrior there was something called "Death Star". Seven guys crew B-17 and were just flying around shooting down everything that moved. There was no way to blast that fortres exept to dive into it. Somehow it has to be balanced between AI gunner skills and this 5 to 10% bomber loses. Personally I'm for making sniper gunners with maybe little less traverse speed as in original IL2.

Brook...there will be mods, no way around it. It's up to You to deploy them and play. For me UP, HSFX and DBW extended lifetime of Il2. We users of mods can only hope that mod designer is honest guy.

Individual upgrade of guns bombs etc. via payware I consider blasphemy. In reality U flew with what that day was available.

Update the game every half a year as an addon so everybody has the same platform to play from and we avoid sick competition. Let's stick to joystick and or rudder pedals movement in order to tell who is better.

 

A few fw190,s should have be able to pull down a B17 ,No need for mods for that

[Peshka]

I like to fly bombers. Online is not fun in my opinion by fact of human players are not like real pilots who obey orders or care about there freinds in the bombers

Computer pilots can some times be idiots but they try and help me go home

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I like to fly bombers. Online is not fun in my opinion by fact of human players are not like real pilots who obey orders or care about there freinds in the bombers

Computer pilots can some times be idiots but they try and help me go home

It seems that the AI bombers wingman is the best option so far.

[FlaviusNavius]

I have to agree 100% with you.

 

I hope that for BoS we do NOT have pay to win field mods like RoF does. It's one of the things I've liked least in RoF.

The field (*weapon?) mods aren't pay to win.

None that I know of give an opponent a clear advantage over an enemy. You can slap a couple more guns on a Dolphin, but that comes at a cost of speed and manoeuvrability. Becker autocannons are quite deadly, but cumbersome to use and add drag to the aircraft. 

It mostly balances out.

That said, is there less of a need for field mods in BoS? For me, some research is in order.

[BlitzPig_EL]

There is NO need for extra cost field mods for BOS.

 

The VVS didn't pay for them, they just did it. Just like the "field mod" rear gunner Il2 in the original IL2.

It's another variant of the airframe, not something that Ivan trotted off to the store and purchased.

[Alky]

I'm new to this forum and new to this topic. However, I'm not new to WWII air combat online. In the mid 90's I played Air Warrior, then some Warbirds and in more recent years, Aces High. Even back in the dark ages of online multiplayer, they were able to use a variety of bombers flown by users. A B-17 could have 10 live players from around the world flying to a distant airfield on a bombing mission to destroy the enemy field in hopes of weakening  it so that it could be captured. With voice coms (teamspeak today), the players all at their own gun positions could communicate, report incoming (player) fighters etc. If nothing else, while flying for an hour or more in real time, while not being attacked, great discussions were to be had. These games had (3) countries that were enemies and the battles continued persistently. So if you logged off and came back the next day, the war was still raging. Why 3 countries, I don't know, I always thought two would be better. You joined a country, flew for that country and became very loyal to it.

If this could be accomplished in the mid 90's on equipment and software we laugh at today, think of the possibilities here!