190 A-6 and Bf 109 G-6 Late

[silvergun]

Great job, you guys are on fire.

 

18 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

Good update! I hope a Thursday DD means your team is taking tomorrow off to rest a little!

 

Definitely looking forward to the Hurricane and all the different loadouts it comes with.

It seems like the pipeline is full of allied planes, no love for "easier" axis planes like the the G6 or A6? 

 

What does this mean?

 

target acquisition and (?).

 

 

 

The Bf 109G-6 "Late" and the Fw 190 A-6 will be among the last, as they will certainly be subject to revision in the 3D modeling of the interior and exterior, in order to meet the new standards of the new aircraft (such as the FW 190 D -9, Tempest, Yak-9 ...), since the original assets date from 2013/12.

 

[Jade_Monkey]

54 minutes ago, silvergun said:

The Bf 109G-6 "Late" and the Fw 190 A-6 will be among the last, as they will certainly be subject to revision in the 3D modeling of the interior and exterior, in order to meet the new standards of the new aircraft (such as the FW 190 D -9, Tempest, Yak-9 ...), since the original assets date from 2013/12.

 

I can't help but to think you pulled that out of thin air. Other than your opinion, do you have any relevant sources backing up that statement? Did the devs say they are going to build those models from the ground up?

[silvergun]

41 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

I can't help but to think you pulled that out of thin air. Other than your opinion, do you have any relevant sources backing up that statement? Did the devs say they are going to build those models from the ground up?

 

Yes, is my opinion, and it is the one that makes the most sense, since there is a huge gap between the current 3D modeling and that of 7, 8 years ago.

Is not necessary build those models from the ground up, but is necessary increase the poly count, polish some edges (interior and exterior), new multilayer textures, normal / bump maps ...

Edited June 11, 2020 by silvergun

[Lusekofte]

To me the new yak made a huge difference just by new textures. 
They won’t build more than needed anything else is simply not how they run their business. 
A revised FM , 4 k textures make wonders.

I am not kidding. 
Thing is there might be a lot more building than we ever know. Nothing in 3D design and importing to game engine seems to be as easy as I believe

 
 

[Hirachi]

From the Fw-190A5 to the A6 these might be some of the difference

 

Fw 190A-6

The main difference of this variant from the previous was the standardized mounting of MG 151/20 E cannons. For this to be possible, it was necessary to redesign the wing for the heavier cannon mount and carriage of a larger ammunition box. Experience obtained during Fw 190A-5/U9 and U10 tests was incorporated in this type. Reinforcements and sockets were made in such a way that serially produced wings would be adapted for internal installation of either 20 or 30 mm cannon ammunition boxes or for installation of underwing armament with the ammunition box installed inside the wing. Proper electrical connections were also provided for the cannons.

The manufacturer started serial production of the FuG 16 ZE radio with an additional radial antenna for radio navigation purposes placed under the rear fuselage. This antenna was used also in the some A-5 planes.

Standard Fw 190A-6 armament consisted of 2x1 MG 17 machine guns and 4x1 MG 151/20 E cannons. Some planes mounted ETC 501 bomb racks for transportation of an additional fuel tank (300 l capacity), these were not distinguished by separate designation.

Unlike other versions, models with different armament or equipment received designations as Rustsatz kits. A lot of these designations had not been previously used:

• Fw 190A-6/R1 - attack fighter with armament increased to six cannons and two machine guns (2x1 MG 17, 2x1 MG 151/20 E and 2x2 MG 151/20 E), by mounting of the WB 151/20 underwing pylons with cannons. This modification was based on the A-5/U12 version. In spite of previous plans, only a few planes with this armament were in Luftwaffe service units (e.g. in JG 11).
   
• Fw 190A-6/R2 - equivalent to the A-5/U6 model, armament: 2x1 MG 17 machine guns, 2x1 MG 151/20 E and 2x1 MK 108 cannons; not serially produced.
   
• Fw 190A-6/R3 - equivalent to the A-5/U11 model, armament: 2x1 MG 17 machine guns, 2x1 MG 151/20 E and 2x1 MK 103 cannons; not serially produced.
   
• Fw 190A-6/R6 - plane with standard armament and the addition of W.Gr. 21 missile launchers.
   
• Fw 190A-6/R2/R6 - plane adapted for destruction of bomber formations, with increased armament and missile launchers, only one prototype, V51 (W.Nr. 530765), built. Total armament consisted of 2x1 MG 17, 2x1 MG 151/20 E, 2x1 MK 108 and 2x1 W.Gr. 21.
   
• Fw 190A-6/R7 - armoured fighter with standard armament; in service with Reich defence units; often with additional 300 l capacity fuel tank mounted on the ETC 501 bomb rack.
   
• Fw 190A-6/R8 - the Rustsatz kit made by application of both R2 (MK108) kit and R7 kit (armour), often machine guns in the fuselage were removed; efficient as a fighter against American bomber aircraft.
   
• Fw 190A-6/R11 - all weather and night fighter, with anti-reflection strips, landing light, autopilot device PKS 12 and heated windscreen windows. Some planes mounted a FuG 217 Neptun J-2 radar. Generally, these planes used dropable fuel tanks mounted on the ETC 501 bomb rack.
   
• Fw 190A-6/R12 - the Rustsatz kit created by application of both R2 and R11 kits. Apart from this modification, one or two planes experimentally mounted more the higher power BMW 801 TS engine with three blade wooden VDM propeller with blades of larger area. The aircraft with code letters VO+LY had an additionally armoured radiator and oil tank; it's armament was reduced to two MG 151/20 E cannons mounted in the wing roots.

Serial production of the A-6 variant started in July 1943 and ended in November 1943 after the completion of 569 planes.

 

Fw 190A-6 could be distinguished by the following external features:

• Adjustable cooling slots behind the engine
• Long-nose cowling
• Wide armoured headrest with cushion, braced with a single, rectangular cross-section strut
• Fuselage armament of MG 17 with "straight" upper cowling
• Wing armament of MG 151 in four positions, with four protruding barrels, wing root blisters and spent casing outlet below the wing.
• Small radio antenna mast at the top of the fin
• Large rectangular radio hatch in port rear fuselage
• First aid kit hatch in starboard rear fuselage behind the canopy
• FuG 16 loop antenna below rear fuselage (not on the initial production batches)

Beside these features, solid wheel hubs appeared on some aircraft, possibly in conjunction with some of the R kits or as result of field upgrades.

 

 

 

[Jaws2002]

So what's the big deal with letting the FW-190A6 and Bf-109 G6 Late last?

 

 Don't people already have a dozen versions of this in game  already?

[Lusekofte]

I never understood the exitement of a new version of 109 and Spit. I acknowledge its importance only by the many happy to see them come. 

[Yogiflight]

7 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

So what's the big deal with letting the FW-190A6 and Bf-109 G6 Late last?

 

 Don't people already have a dozen versions of this in game  already?

Absolutely. The only reason to introduce the G6 Late earlier, would, in my eyes, have been to replace the early G6 in the Bodenplatte career, as this one is absolutely outdated in early '45.

[=621=Samikatz]

1 minute ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I never understood the exitement of a new version of 109 and Spit. I acknowledge its importance only by the many happy to see them come. 

 

I'm curious what toys the German birds will get. Both are kinda "in-between" models compared to what we already have, and I imagine could be made much quicker than most aircraft. That they're coming so late makes me think they'll get some interesting mods.

 

The Spit XIV is a bit different. It's an enormous leap in performance over the IXe in most ways and should be quite the different ride. According to pilot accounts it was a very torque-y aircraft on take off and never quite as pleasant to fly as the Merlin-powered ones, but the incredible performance more than makes up for it

[Lusekofte]

The German plane pool is getting pretty complete. Soon they have to start building seaplanes. Then you will see me ecstatic

[oc2209]

27 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I never understood the exitement of a new version of 109 and Spit. I acknowledge its importance only by the many happy to see them come. 

 

I kind of loathe the G6. Too heavy to handle as nicely as the older 109s, and too slow to match the late Gs and K. I see it as a mediocre compromise, and the Luftwaffe's over-reliance on it proved quite costly in terms of dead pilots.

 

As for Spitfires, I feel the same about the Mk. V. I'd rather see a Mk I or II just to fly the Spitfire at its absolute cleanest configuration; and also to experience the frustration of having only .30 cal guns. Alternatively, the Mk XIV Griffon will be quite different in handling and performance.

Edited June 11, 2020 by oc2209

[ShamrockOneFive]

The last time around people complained that too many Axis planes were coming out first. This time its too many Allied planes coming out first. Can't win

 

Frankly the A-6 and G-6 Late will be cool but in the meantime the G-6, A-5 and A-8 can sub in and for most people that'll be ok. I've fought the odd Fw190A-3 on Combat Box and I didn't even notice until I went back to the replay. Of course it's sweetest when everything comes together.

[CUJO_1970]

6 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Don't people already have a dozen versions of this in game  already?

 

Yes, who needs them, right? 

 

That would be a great slogan to build interest: Luftwaffe Battle of Normandy: Who Needs Them Anyway!

[sevenless]

7 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

The Spit XIV is a bit different. It's an enormous leap in performance over the IXe in most ways and should be quite the different ride. According to pilot accounts it was a very torque-y aircraft on take off and never quite as pleasant to fly as the Merlin-powered ones, but the incredible performance more than makes up for it

 

Yep. you can clearly see that here. A real performance monster:

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14v109.html

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by sevenless

[CUJO_1970]

That is really awesome info about the XIV.

 

Hopefully we can learn a lot more about the Spitfire in this thread titled "190 A-6 and Bf 109G-6 Late".

7 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

I'm curious what toys the German birds will get.

 

Well, for one thing the Germans are getting the Ju88 again, basically the same one we already have only this one is a less useful variant with an even lighter bomb load and a lot of people are really excited about it.

[ICDP]

13 hours ago, silvergun said:

Great job, you guys are on fire.

 

 

The Bf 109G-6 "Late" and the Fw 190 A-6 will be among the last, as they will certainly be subject to revision in the 3D modeling of the interior and exterior, in order to meet the new standards of the new aircraft (such as the FW 190 D -9, Tempest, Yak-9 ...), since the original assets date from 2013/12.

 

 

Go look at the difference between the A3 and A5 compared to the A8.  The A8 external was slightly revised for BoBP.

Edited June 12, 2020 by ICDP

[=621=Samikatz]

1 hour ago, CUJO_1970 said:

That is really awesome info about the XIV.

 

Hopefully we can learn a lot more about the Spitfire in this thread titled "190 A-6 and Bf 109G-6 Late".

 

Well, for one thing the Germans are getting the Ju88 again, basically the same one we already have only this one is a less useful variant with an even lighter bomb load and a lot of people are really excited about it.

 

I meant more specifically what mods the fighters might get, I am well aware of what planes we are getting. Maybe they'll add some prototype armament like the underwing 30mm gondolas or something

 

I think the Ju-88 won't be as awful as folks are making it out to be. It'll be like Germany's Il-2. A somewhat slow, rugged strafing platform, and those are fun

[76IAP-Black]

9 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

So what's the big deal with letting the FW-190A6 and Bf-109 G6 Late last?

 

 Don't people already have a dozen versions of this in game  already?

Imagine, just for a second, maybe 2 seconds .. there are people out there, new to this game series and starting with Battle for Normandi 

Yeah you are right .. who needs some german planes 

[Pikestance]

The unit we portray is III./JG77. In the Bodenplatte time frame they flew G6 and then the K4. It would be nice to have the "late" version to be consistent with that time-frame. 

 

I think any group that enjoy flying "x" plane would like to experience flying as many versions as possible. If i was a "real" pilot, I think i wold definitely want to. 

[Lusekofte]

3 minutes ago, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

The unit we portray is III./JG77. In the Bodenplatte time frame they flew G6 and then the K4. It would be nice to have the "late" version to be consistent with that time-frame. 

 

I think any group that enjoy flying "x" plane would like to experience flying as many versions as possible. If i was a "real" pilot, I think i wold definitely want to. 

Thing is, the 109 fly at 1000 k altitude zoom in and poof its adversary using a spotting cheat of some kind. Then zoom up again waiting for another target. 
They would not notice if the devs just put the early G6 in the pack.  It would not make any difference what so ever.  
In fact I believe it would go a while before they find out they are flying a fockewulf ?

[Raven109]

Getting a G6 just with a tall tail is only useful if the tall tail has some impact on the FM. The tall tail was added IRL to improve stability after the weight of the G6 was increased because of the addition of the new MG131 guns, and because of power increases from MW50. 

 

Since the 109s are quite stable in-game, I can't see how the tall tail will help with stability, which in the end makes it just a visual change from my point of view.

 

If we assume that we do get G6 Late with MW50 as a mod, then we're basically getting the G14, performance-wise, in sheep's clothing.

[sevenless]

24 minutes ago, Raven109 said:

Getting a G6 just with a tall tail is only useful if the tall tail has some impact on the FM. The tall tail was added IRL to improve stability after the weight of the G6 was increased because of the addition of the new MG131 guns, and because of power increases from MW50. 

 

Since the 109s are quite stable in-game, I can't see how the tall tail will help with stability, which in the end makes it just a visual change from my point of view.

 

If we assume that we do get G6 Late with MW50 as a mod, then we're basically getting the G14, performance-wise, in sheep's clothing.

 

We might be getting this config shown below. It is the crate of Hptm. Mietusch CO of III./JG 26. A G6 with retrofitted Erlahood. Or the white 1 of 9./JG26 with tall tail. Maybe they add MW50, maybe not. Performance wise only MW 50 would make a difference to the already existing G6. All else is cosmetics.

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by sevenless

[Pikestance]

It is the only 109 that can be added to Normandy. it plugs a gap as i noted above. 

 

G6's did a good job surviving the war, they are all over the air shows online. 

[silvergun]

5 hours ago, ICDP said:

 

Go look at the difference between the A3 and A5 compared to the A8.  The A8 external was slightly revised for BoBP.

 

Hi

Yes, is true the poly count rises a little bit on A-8 (against A-3 and A-5), but far, far way from D-9.

IMO, this is the time to revise the BF 109 and the FW 190 Atom.

[41Sqn_Skipper]

Why would the devs create two aircraft new aircraft models if there are already visually identical aircraft implemented (A5, G14)?

[ShamrockOneFive]

I am hoping that the A-6 is done at the same level as the D-9 was done. I can't imagine why not but I really think they hit it out of the park on their art/modeling work there. The A-8 is good but the D-9 really is impressive.

[sevenless]

9 minutes ago, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

Why would the devs create two aircraft new aircraft models if there are already visually identical aircraft implemented (A5, G14)?

 

That is correct. Only thing they need to do is take the G14 model, swap out the 605 AM engine and use the 605A engine of the 1943 G6 for that and "hey presto" there you have the G6 (late).

[esk_pedja]

Does anybody know if G6 Late was any faster than original G6 ?

 

Except better view from cockpit, I don't need any additional rudder stability...

[Hirachi]

I was hoping at some point we would see a FW 190A9 with a 801 ts engine (1.82 ata) and a BF 109G10 even if they are standalone add on.

Edited June 12, 2020 by 361st_Hirachi

[=420=Syphen]

9 minutes ago, esk_pedja said:

Does anybody know if G6 Late was any faster than original G6 ?

 

Except better view from cockpit, I don't need any additional rudder stability...

 

Depends on what engine we get.   A? AM? AS?  'Late' G6 is a pretty broad term as G6's were pretty much like lego DIY kits in late war. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by [CPT]HawkeyeP

[ICDP]

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I am hoping that the A-6 is done at the same level as the D-9 was done. I can't imagine why not but I really think they hit it out of the park on their art/modeling work there. The A-8 is good but the D-9 really is impressive.

 

Because then people would complain about why the A3, A5 and A8 were not redone.  The truth is it is beneficial and normal for devs to reuse assets where possible and given the limited size of the team it is understandable.

[Rjel]

The only other single engine German fighter i think is needed is the 109G10. That would round the series nicely. After that perhaps some of the  late bi-planes as the Luftwaffe used early in the war. I’m not that familiar with the planes other than I think they were used in ground attack.   
 

As mentioned a seaplane would be cool but those things were butt ugly. My last Luftwaffe wish would be for a Mistel Ju-88 with the Fw-190 mounted atop. 

[Eisenfaustus]

54 minutes ago, 361st_Hirachi said:

I was hoping at some point we would see a FW 190A9 with a 801 ts engine (1.82 ata) and a BF 109G10 even if they are standalone add on.

But net relevant for normandy - yet primal candidates for late eastern front.

I wish for a Ta152 though - just because ^^

[jeanba]

58 minutes ago, 361st_Hirachi said:

I was hoping at some point we would see a FW 190A9 with a 801 ts engine (1.82 ata) and a BF 109G10 even if they are standalone add on.

They would fit in a later Eastern Front "Battle Of Koenigsberg" for instance (with Normandie Niemen Yak3 )

[JG4_dingsda]

10 minutes ago, Rjel said:

As mentioned a seaplane would be cool

If there should be any intention to do this, the Ju 52 would probably be a good starting point.

[Pikestance]

14 minutes ago, Rjel said:

The only other single engine German fighter i think is needed is the 109G10. That would round the series nicely. After that perhaps some of the  late bi-planes as the Luftwaffe used early in the war. I’m not that familiar with the planes other than I think they were used in ground attack.   
 

As mentioned a seaplane would be cool but those things were butt ugly. My last Luftwaffe wish would be for a Mistel Ju-88 with the Fw-190 mounted atop. 

 

The 109 T2 would be nice Though designed for the planned carrier, it was used in Norway. 

Earlier 109 Es would would work. 

 

The G-12 would help complete. After all what's point in having all of these 109s if you leave out the two seater trainer. 

 

(Somewhere on youtube, I watched a video of a war vet flying in a 109 (I assume it was the G-12). 

 

 

1 hour ago, esk_pedja said:

Does anybody know if G6 Late was any faster than original G6 ?

 

Except better view from cockpit, I don't need any additional rudder stability...

 

Based on what I have read performance was "boosted."  

[AndytotheD]

1 hour ago, esk_pedja said:

Does anybody know if G6 Late was any faster than original G6 ?

 

Except better view from cockpit, I don't need any additional rudder stability...

Think about it like this: due to increased drag the G-14 is actually slower at combat settings than its G-6 counterpart, until you use MW50 and get an extra 300hp out of the engine. A late G-6 without MW50 should be a little slower than the early model. With MW50 it should be as fast as the G-14.

 

Really I’m hoping they give us something like a G-6/AS but very few, if any, saw action in Normandy. As it stands, I expect MW50 to be a modification, and there should be plenty of modifications

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, esk_pedja said:

Does anybody know if G6 Late was any faster than original G6 ?

 

It wasn´t until it (G6/U2s) got MW50 retrofitted in April. See graph in my Spit XIV / Me 109 comparision above.

 

Way more interesting is this though:

 

Quote

The G-6 was fitted with an AS engine (DB 605 ASM) in early 1944 and was at the frontlines in April, as noted in "I Flew For the Fuhrer":

 

Brand new fighters have arrived, straight off from the factories. These are now both equipped with (high altitude) supercharged engines and the new MW booster. I had personally participated testing the latter. Thanks to this new invention, in case of emergency, we can now force the engine to 40% higher output for a duration ofseveral minutes.

 

- Heinz Knoke : I flew for the Fuhrer.

                         Entry of 28th April 1944.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by sevenless

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

If all you do and care about is flying the Fighters in their Clean Dogfight Configuration, the Variants don't really make that much Sense.

 

For the more JaBo oriented Tactical Fighters, the Variants add Cool Toys, Customization for all Sorts of different Work. Wanna protect a valuable Target from Bombers and heavier Attack Craft? Take an A-6 with Additional Cannonpods.

For Deep Penetration Work in the weakly defended Rear, and you want to retain the ability to stand up for yourself even after the Drop? Take the Blue Pills in the droppable Launch Tubes.

 

And having NDB Radios really helps with these Stealth Shots across the Back.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[40plus]

I will always be excited for a new 109 but the list of variants is running thin. The one that has my heart is still out there though. Where is the G10-Erla?!