Large Bomber missions IL-2

[Eduard_Neumann]

Hey Guys,

I own Il 2 BOS and i really like it especially in vr. The only roblem is that I dont Play it that much because I run out of Things to do (I think), sadly I have no frineds who Play IL-2 so multiplayer isnt an Option and for now I only did quick missions etc. But the Thing why im writing here is I saw some vids About huge bomber missins (in il 2 1946) with 100 Bombers or  so and then some guys intercepting, this Looks really nice but I dont know if this is possible in Il-2 BOX because there Arent really big Bombers and I dont know if my Hardware could run this. 

So if you know if ist possible to do such Things it would be nice.

Greetings Spuky05

[41Sqn_Skipper]

 

You can use this mission to see if your hardware can handle large bomber formations.

 

You don't need any friend to play multiplayer, I'd say the majority of people fly on their own for the most time in multiplayer. As communication features in the game itself are weak, it's best to join a server that offers also a discord for voice communication. Then join a channel with some people in it and ask if you can fly with them.

[Eduard_Neumann]

This mission looks good, but the link doesn’t exist anymore ?

[41Sqn_Skipper]

The mission file is the attachment of the first post: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=59654

[Monksilver]

I started playing with mission editor yesterday and set up 49 Ju88s - see below from last night. As I've only just started with the editor I wasn't able to get them to do anything and they just flew round in a big circle but still fun taking them on with my Tempest and unlimited ammo. It is easy to do, must be if I can do it, and there are tutorials on You Tube that explain the basics so you get something similar set up for your self.  

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Monksilver

[Eduard_Neumann]

Ok thank you I’ll try that out

[Monksilver]

The best way to do a lot of planes is to do one, then copy and paste, then copy and paste those and repeat so you can get to a lot of planes much quicker.

[PatrickAWlson]

What's the performance like?

[Monksilver]

21 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

What's the performance like?

 

I've just checked. Most of the time I get a solid 59-60 FPS, 60 is what I've set as my target as that is my monitor's refresh rate. The FPS seems to be affected by 2 factors, how close I am (I assume as the planes take up more pixels) and how many are shooting at me. The very lowest FPS was 38 but only for a second, a few seconds in high 40s (when in the middle of the group) longer in low to mid 50s even when close to the group or in the group (but I'd need to spend more time checking the exact pattern). I didn't notice the drop in FPS myself other than the change in number on the counter.

 

As the power of my  PC is relevant here- 8 core i7 3.6GHz, 32GB, Nvidia 2070 super 8GB

[Monksilver]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

What's the performance like?

 

Ok just checked again and I can see the FPS does drop the closer I get. I did diving run in to the formation as seen below, FPS here was 49. The second shot shows the FPS at 49, just before this it was 39 for a second. The 3rd screenshot is from inside the contrails, at this point I had just passed the rear of a back marker and had started to turn to follow behind the formation, as you can see the FPS was 61. Overall I'd say the FPS dropped when diving in, was in 40s sometimes at the low end, but shooting back up after I had gone past the majority of the bombers. The critical issue thus seems to be the effort needed to provide the detailed images of multiple planes.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I've just tried it with 98 Ju88's. Performance was horrible, even when FPS was in 50s it was as if everything was in slow motion. With the 49 there was nothing like that and despite the varying FPS it still ran smoothly.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Monksilver

[CountZero]

26 minutes ago, Monksilver said:

 

Ok just checked again and I can see the FPS does drop the closer I get. I did diving run in to the formation as seen below, FPS here was 49. The second shot shows the FPS at 49, just before this it was 39 for a second. The 3rd screenshot is from inside the contrails, at this point I had just passed the rear of a back marker and had started to turn to follow behind the formation, as you can see the FPS was 61. Overall I'd say the FPS dropped when diving in, was in 40s sometimes at the low end, but shooting back up after I had gone past the majority of the bombers. The critical issue thus seems to be the effort needed to provide the detailed images of multiple planes.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I've just tried it with 98 Ju88's. Performance was horrible, even when FPS was in 50s it was as if everything was in slow motion. With the 49 there was nothing like that and despite the varying FPS it still ran smoothly.

I dont see thouse ju88s reacting to you or even shooting, that would decrese your fps also add escort and atackers and targets to bomb, flak and other stuff... this is steral enviroment , mission would have to have escort bombers atackers targets as bare minimum, what happends when you have flight of bombers bombing factory flak all around bombers shooting at attackers escort chasing attackers all in one area, can you even have 50 airplanes there, not just bombers?

[Monksilver]

Just now, CountZero said:

I dont see thouse ju88s reacting to you or even shooting, that would decrese your fps also add escort and atackers and targets to bomb, flak and other stuff... this is steral enviroment , mission would have to have escort bombers atackers targets as bare minimum, what happends when you have flight of bombers bombing factory flak all around bombers shooting at attackers escort chasing attackers all in one area, can you even have 50 airplanes there, not just bombers?

 

As mentioned above I've only just started playing with the mission editor and still don't know what I'm doing. So all I have here is 49 Ju88s with no instructions to do anything and a single Tempest. I make no claim that this is a great mission I've set up, it isn't. This isn't me trying to pass off some crap as a something everyone should download, it was just something I did when messing around. 

 

Everything you say is correct, but whilst those ju88's aren't shooting in the pictures I can assure you they shoot when I'm in range and their angles of fire, that does impact on the frame rate but I didn't notice this beyond the counter in the corner and the game didn't run slowly. I imagine that if some escorts, more attackers and flak were added in then it would run badly.  

[Nolly]

For a multiplayer server with 20 players and maybe 8 AA units active, 12-15 is about your limit before you have issues. 

 

Note that larger aircraft with more gunners have a higher impact.

- B25s and He111-6s seem to be the biggest hogs.

- Ju88s and Pe2s/A20s seem OK. (with these you can push towards 15 or 16 without issues.)

 

For a single player, as evidenced above, you can go much bigger. I had a simular experience where the framerate was directly correlated with the amount of bombers in view, and my distance to them dropping from 60 to 35ish when in the gunners range.

I believe that a 30-40ish formation would work for most people in SP in a proper mission as long as it was set up correctly. (Assuming no escort fighters, but with mission logic and some AA)

 

- I found that splitting the formation up yielded some performance benifet - so breaking the formation up into groups of 8, separated by a few hundred metres will help FPS a lot, while still giving the impression of a larger formation. ("groups of 8" = 2 flights of 4, one covering the other, or following the same path).  V's bigger than 4 look silly to me anyway.

- Dont turn the bombers, change their altitude or manouvure them in any way other than a straight line (i had mine do one u-turn after target, but it took ages to get right. The main thing here is to make it easier to troubleshoot when you have many, many overlapping bomber formations in the editer))

- Activate and deactivate the bombers at their bombing altitude (no taxiing or landing)

- Use a force complete to ensure they all drop at the same time (if having them bomb) so you dont get an overenthusiastic few who feel the need to go around. (depends how you set up the logic)

- If in doubt, go less. its surprising how few bombers you need to create them big formation feels. Spacing them out helps with the illusion also

- Contrailing is an unknown factor but i think it affects frame rate/servor load, so drop altitude/increase temperature to get rid of them if needed to improve things. I didnt go above contrail alt so as not to deal with this so i dont know.

 

Just my experience and opinion.

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by -RS-Nolly
grammer

[41Sqn_Skipper]

12 hours ago, Monksilver said:

Ok, I've just tried it with 98 Ju88's. Performance was horrible, even when FPS was in 50s it was as if everything was in slow motion. With the 49 there was nothing like that and despite the varying FPS it still ran smoothly.

 

CPU is the bottleneck for many AI units. You need to compare the in-game time (cockpit clock) with the real time (using a real clock). Compare difference after e.g. 1-5 minute to see when performance drops.

[MarderIV]

On 6/8/2020 at 2:10 AM, CountZero said:

ju88s reacting to you or even shooting, that would decrese your fps also add escort and atackers

 

Absolutely true. I'm still stuck with an FX6100 and the presence of both bombers and attackers slow down the game. Not so much in terms of FPS, but rather simulations per second - potentially the culprit behind the slow-motion effect. 

 

Some have pointed out in the past its the computational cycles the gunners are going through that does it. Kinda makes me wonder though if the reason for that is that they're all suddenly active once an enemy is within a specific range, instead of them going active once an enemy is in sector line of sight? 

 

I mean it might not be the case and I probably am just seeing things, but I'm certain gunners on my bombers start "pre-aiming" or pre-calculating even if an attacker isn't in LOS relative to their mounts. An attacker might be behind my Ju-88 and already my front gunner appears to be aiming for it already. I can pretty much make out the attacker's vector just by looking at the gunner.

 

If this was the case perhaps we can save some CPU cycles if we limited the gunners to only go hot and start calculating once an enemy is in their LOS. Might even curtail their extreme accuracy considering they've got you vectored despite not being in LOS.

[sergio_]

On 6/7/2020 at 12:24 PM, Spuky05 said:

I have no frineds who Play IL-2 so multiplayer isnt an Option

 

The conversation really went on performance topics, but let me remark that, as it has been said, there's a good amount of single players in multi player.

 

Offline missions are great in their own way. Not trying to compete with those, MP has great things too, even when going solo:

- Real players add variety. As in war, you probably had a chance to encounters experts or noobs.

- Real players are unpredictable, which adds itsbown kind of realism.

- Great things happen in the chat. Players who don't know each other coordinate to bomb a target, provide cover, etc.

- You'll get offers there to join virtual squadrons.

- Solo pilots in real war? Yes, it also happened.

 

Give it a try!

(Let me recommend the Finnish server, but not the only good choice)

[MattS]

You don't need big bomber formations. Set a QMB with 4 Ju-88s and see if you can set one on fire or kill even one crew member without getting your engine or face shot out. Should keep you busy for a long time!

[sevenless]

Check out these in this thread, if your machine can handle that. Usually the CPU is the limit and the internal timer will clock down. It then will feel like you are flying in slowmotion.

 

 

[FeuerFliegen]

On 6/7/2020 at 6:24 AM, Spuky05 said:

sadly I have no frineds who Play IL-2 so multiplayer isnt an Option

 

multiplayer is definitely an option!  you can easily find tons of people to fly with as well, once you enter a MP server.