[SOLVED]Is the speed we see relevant to ground speed

[Lusekofte]

I flew the po 2 at 2 mtrs in IAS 150. To mee it looked more like 70 kmph

Edited June 2, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[[DBS]Browning]

150 Km/h IAS in level flight at 2m altitude, is 150Km/h ground speed.

[RedKestrel]

Easy way to test is to fly across a known distance, watch your speed, and see how long it takes you.

But IMO even if you are only a couple metres above the ground you 'feel' slower than when your butt is scraping the pavement.

[garlic]

^ unless you were flying with wind

ground speed is going to be affected by wind,  it is not accurately shown on IAS

you could have been flying into headwind and your ground speed could have been slower than IAS because of how IAS is measured

 

or maybe just visually 150kph doesnt look as fast to your eyes.

 

IAS, TAS and GS are different things

you can read about it more here: https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2019/11/the-four-types-of-airspeed-and-how-each-works/

 

please correct me if i have any misunderstandings

Edited June 2, 2020 by JoshGG

[Voidhunger]

20 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I flew the po 2 at 2 mtrs in IAS 150. To mee it looked more like 70 kmph

I wanted to ask same question long ago amd im glad that someone asked.☺️

flying above ground seems to me too slow in all aircrafts, but thats probably nonsence.☺️I dont own dcs to compare it and i dont want to install old sturm to take a look.

 

[Lusekofte]

I know speed is relevant when it comes to games. We can all fly in under 200 kmph as long as the models compare to real performance against eachother. 
But how is bomb drop simulated in all this. 
I tested levelbombing aprox 10 mtr above ground on a road. Got bullseye every time

then in troops at finnish server and achieved near misses both in front and rear of targets. I obviously had less to aim at and misses was on my drop timing. 
But it occurred some how not consistent

 

Anyway I will test this offline. And offline with higher fps. Flying low online in PO 2 with grass at ultra give low fps

I like the PO 2 to have less restriction on movement in VR and Trackir. One should be able to put the head outside to aim in 100kmph

[[DBS]Browning]

14 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I know speed is relevant when it comes to games.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

[QB.Gregor-]

1 hour ago, Voidhunger said:

I wanted to ask same question long ago amd im glad that someone asked.☺️

flying above ground seems to me too slow in all aircrafts, but thats probably nonsence.☺️I dont own dcs to compare it and i dont want to install old sturm to take a look.

 

The feel of speed depends a lot on the field of view. It is a bit more limited in il2 BoX compared to both DCS/CloD, so it looks somewhat slower if you zoom all the way out.

[Lusekofte]

19 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Relative, I meant relative

[[DBS]Browning]

18 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Relative, I meant relative

Could you explain what that means? 

[216th_Jordan]

2 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

150 Km/h IAS in level flight at 2m altitude, is 150Km/h ground speed.

 

Only with no wind. What you describe is True Airspeed (TAS).

 

In the air 150kph does not seem very fast, thats what I experienced flying gliders. Im cars you are usually much closer to objects, so you seem to travel faster and in less optimized cars going 100 kph seems like going 150 in others because of more vibrations, sound, etc.

[40plus]

The perception of speed is something I've noticed in this title and DCS. It just seems slow compared to what my brain expects particularly in VR.

I don't have the flight experience to set that expectation but I used to race sportbikes and 300kph is a hell of a thing at ground level.

[Lusekofte]

24 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

Could you explain what that means? 

I am simply not that convinced we are moving in the speed we read on our instrument. 
I agree that speed do not look fast as soon you take off and go above 10 meters. But I flown in between buildings in 80 to 100 kmph , alongside trees in speed from 80 to 140. And it simply do look very slow 

By relative I mean it do not matter in a game as long as everything is proportioned to each other

but how is the bombs we drop coded

3 minutes ago, pfrances said:

The perception of speed is something I've noticed in this title and DCS. It just seems slow compared to what my brain expects particularly in VR.

I don't have the flight experience to set that expectation but I used to race sportbikes and 300kph is a hell of a thing at ground level.

I flown a lot in different types of small planes and choppers. 
My memory about choppers going in low is my thinking is it not time he stop. 
In planes I have not flown This close to ground and trees

Edited June 2, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[216th_Jordan]

24 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I am simply not that convinced we are moving in the speed we read on our instrument. 
I agree that speed do not look fast as soon you take off and go above 10 meters. But I flown in between buildings in 80 to 100 kmph , alongside trees in speed from 80 to 140. And it simply do look very slow 

By relative I mean it do not matter in a game as long as everything is proportioned to each other

but how is the bombs we drop coded

I flown a lot in different types of small planes and choppers. 
My memory about choppers going in low is my thinking is it not time he stop. 
In planes I have not flown This close to ground and trees

 

Except for the slow down of the game engine the speed ingame is the speed shown when we accept that the sizes of objects are true to life.

 

What might make it seem slower ingame with VR would be the reduced FOV compared to the real FOV of a person - the things passing by the eyes at a larger angle appear significantly faster, which is a simple testament to the objects moving in closer trigonometrically and increasing angular velocity.

[RedKestrel]

21 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I am simply not that convinced we are moving in the speed we read on our instrument. 

Just test it with known distances, like the length of a runway or something. Take a track and test it out.

People practice  navigation in this game using dead reckoning. That would not be possible if the speed in game did not match the scale of the world.
 

 

 

[Lusekofte]

31 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Just test it with known distances, like the length of a runway or something. Take a track and test it out.

People practice  navigation in this game using dead reckoning. That would not be possible if the speed in game did not match the scale of the world.
 

 

 

You are right speed and distance have to be correct in order to navigate. I do that myself. I guess coding on bomb drops also related to games distance and speed. 
If the games distance and speed is not the same as real world it is pretty irrelevant

 

I have optimized my setting to performance with steady 70 fps for trying to get level bombing in po2 better and more consistent 

[Raven109]

As others have said, the sensation of speed comes from a wide FoV. Adding to this, it is also important to have a very detailed terrain, where the size of the details is known by the pilot. Knowing the size can let you estimate the speed better, since the details will be familiar to you from real life. Motion blur is also something that is missing. When going fast, objects which are very close to you will pass by in a blur, unless you make a conscious effort to follow them with your eyes.

 

3 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

I wanted to ask same question long ago amd im glad that someone asked.☺️

flying above ground seems to me too slow in all aircrafts, but thats probably nonsence.☺️I dont own dcs to compare it and i dont want to install old sturm to take a look.

 

 

You can try DCS for free. If I recall correctly there are 2 airplanes you can use for free. The un-armed T-51 Mustang, and the Su-25 T.

[Voidhunger]

29 minutes ago, Raven109 said:

As others have said, the sensation of speed comes from a wide FoV. Adding to this, it is also important to have a very detailed terrain, where the size of the details is known by the pilot. Knowing the size can let you estimate the speed better, since the details will be familiar to you from real life. Motion blur is also something that is missing. When going fast, objects which are very close to you will pass by in a blur, unless you make a conscious effort to follow them with your eyes.

 

 

You can try DCS for free. If I recall correctly there are 2 airplanes you can use for free. The un-armed T-51 Mustang, and the Su-25 T.

 

Thanks, but Im sure that developers have the speed modeled correctly in game.

I had just the feeling that Im flying slower

[Raven109]

Well, most likely that the speed which you see on your gauge does correspond to the time it takes to cover a known distance. This can be easily tested.

 

The sensation of speed is another subject altogether. That's harder to get right.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Raven109

[40plus]

1 minute ago, Raven109 said:

Well, most likely that the speed which you see on your gauge does correspond to the time it takes to travel some known distance. This can be easily tested.

 

The sensation of speed is another subject altogether. That's harder to get right.

 

 

 ?

 

By the various gods that looks like fun!

[Lusekofte]

51 minutes ago, Raven109 said:

As others have said, the sensation of speed comes from a wide FoV.

I used Po 2 low with Rift S 

and do not have wide fow. It is only now when focusing in deapth the U2 I noticed many things that I had to tweak off. Like grass it simply render in a bobble and in this plane it is not good. 
then I was really in trouble dropping bombs in a consistent way. 
I am not complaining. But asking.  I simply think it looks slow

Edited June 2, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[RedKestrel]

25 minutes ago, Raven109 said:

Well, most likely that the speed which you see on your gauge does correspond to the time it takes to cover a known distance. This can be easily tested.

 

The sensation of speed is another subject altogether. That's harder to get right.

 

 

No way is that s*** legal, lmao! Do you know how fast the guy is going there?

[Raven109]

13 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

No way is that s*** legal, lmao! Do you know how fast the guy is going there?

 

I was estimating around 350-400km/h. I looked at the gauge on the left, which is the IAS gauge, but at the top you have the max and min speeds, so the needle is somewhere outside of the frame throughout the entire flight. But then I looked at the description of the video, which states: "at a calculated 260mph (420kmh, 225knots)." The description also details the process used to calculate the speed.

 

Wonder what the truck drivers were thinking when they saw a fast a/c going through a ditch below eye level.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Raven109

[Lusekofte]

Well the brave hartmans would not let me test online. So it kind of stops with offline testing

I have fixed the problem

A reboot on computer after tweaking settings madethe fps much higher and sense of speed improved

Edited June 2, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[RedKestrel]

41 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Well the brave hartmans would not let me test online. So it kind of stops with offline testing

 

Every time I try to test bomb effectiveness some Hartmann shows up to kill me to! The nerve!

[Lusekofte]

3 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Every time I try to test bomb effectiveness some Hartmann shows up to kill me to! The nerve!

Well i did speed test outside own airfield. 
I do not complain really. I would shoot me down meeting a slow sift target. 

[RedKestrel]

7 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Well i did speed test outside own airfield. 
I do not complain really. I would shoot me down meeting a slow sift target. 

I shot down a guy in a Ju-52 the other night, so I can't call on anyone else for mercy! I actually felt bad about it until 2.1 seconds later a guy in a 262 shot my tail off. It's the circle of life.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

8 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I flew the po 2 at 2 mtrs in IAS 150. To mee it looked more like 70 kmph

 

Someone does an actual test of the ground speed modeling.