Rheinland Map Bridges

[IckyATLAS]

I did a survey of the bridges on the Rheinland map and we have let's say standard road and rail bridges (all identical), and the particular bridges like the Remagen one which are specially designed. 

The problem with the standard bridges is that they have standard sizes in terms of length and as such are incorrectly positioned across rivers. Their size make it that the bridge arches are not placed correctly or the bridge just is partly in the river etc.. Sometimes the bridge length is ok and it can be repositioned (translated) correctly but then it loses connection with the rail or the road. Sometimes it should be longer to correctly be over the river. And I wonder if really all the bridges at that time were as identical to one another. But this last comment is not really an issue as they are pretty nice. But having them badly positioned or not with the right length is an issue. I have the feeling there was some hassle in terminating this big map.

Edited June 1, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[Avimimus]

It takes a lot of work to make maps like these, including creating new technology - so I can see why there were imperfections.

 

What would be nice is if they conducted some crowd funding to create a map/object enhancement pack... I'm not sure if the publisher would approve of using crowd funding though - there could be lots of complications I suppose. Still, it would be nice if some players could pay extra to support a more detailed product and then have that be shared with other existing owners for free.

 

The other thing I think about quite a bit is if it would be possible to allocate small spaces (e.g. 15mx20m squares) around target areas and have hand-built templates (e.g. a couple of parked trucks, an anti-aircraft gun) which matched... so as to have some randomisation/procedural building of target areas... it would add a lot to ground attack.

 

[40plus]

I just wish the rivers were in valleys so so many of the bridges wouldn't need those ridiculous ramps on either end.

 

It's a minor gripe but it would be nice.

Edited June 1, 2020 by pfrances

[AEthelraedUnraed]

  If only you knew how much effort it takes to create a 3d model...

 

If you want to fly on an accurate representation of the real world with as many true-to-life recreations as is conceivably possible, I'd recommend you to check out Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 once it gets released. Sadly, the IL2 team hasn't got Microsoft's budget nor manpower to spend on something that, frankly, most people will never even notice. Personally, I'd rather have the team's 3d modelers spend their time on new/better aircraft, vehicles and buildings, rather than creating a couple more versions of a bridge.

 

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

The other thing I think about quite a bit is if it would be possible to allocate small spaces (e.g. 15mx20m squares) around target areas and have hand-built templates (e.g. a couple of parked trucks, an anti-aircraft gun) which matched... so as to have some randomisation/procedural building of target areas... it would add a lot to ground attack.

 

The dynamic careers actually do already have this feature! There are literally hundreds of hand-placed positions around potential targets. That's why, for example, artillery are often located right along the edge of a forest.

 

4 minutes ago, pfrances said:

I just wish the rivers were in valleys so so many of the bridges wouldn't need those ridiculous ramps on either end.

We don't really have valleys in the Netherlands (a major portion of the Rheinland map)?. That's why we've got so many dykes (which would be very cool to see though - although probably hard to implement). Bridges here really do have those "ridiculous ramps".

[Avimimus]

1 minute ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The dynamic careers actually do already have this feature! There are literally hundreds of hand-placed positions around potential targets. That's why, for example, artillery are often located right along the edge of a forest.

 

Interesting. I'll have to try this again. I flew a couple of missions some time ago and all I encountered were rows of vehicles on a road when I was told to interdict and an empty airfield I was told to bomb! But it might have been quite some time ago, maybe even in the old campaign generator. There have been so many updates it is easy to miss something if one has been away for a month working.

 

IRL ground targets were pretty diverse with a lot going on - so it might also be the limited number of objects (and not having more barrels, little depots etc.) Anyway, I'm going to excitedly run some missions in the new maps to see what the targets look like now!

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 minute ago, Avimimus said:

 

Interesting. I'll have to try this again. I flew a couple of missions some time ago and all I encountered were rows of vehicles on a road when I was told to interdict and an empty airfield I was told to bomb! But it might have been quite some time ago, maybe even in the old campaign generator. There have been so many updates it is easy to miss something if one has been away for a month working.

 

IRL ground targets were pretty diverse with a lot going on - so it might also be the limited number of objects (and not having more barrels, little depots etc.) Anyway, I'm going to excitedly run some missions in the new maps to see what the targets look like now!

TBH, I don't know to what extent this is implemented on the Rheinland map as I haven't really flown many ground attack missions there yet, but it definitely is the case on the Stalingrad map and the technology is there.

 

For any required mission type (airbase attack, artillery attack, frontlines, ....) The campaign generator chooses from one of 100 or so targets, depending on such things as the distance to the player airbase. Each of those targets has a couple of hand-placed blocks around it, which specify a generic type that should be placed there (artillery, flak, vehicle, armour, ...). This generic type is then filled in according to objects.cfg in the career root directory, which specifies entrance and exit dates and probabilities of that type appearing, for all object types that can appear in a career mission.

[Avimimus]

Interesting. I wasn't thinking about generating appropriate units in appropriate locations - but more about generating small secondary components to ground targets... so things like adding a few trucks near an airfield or rail-depot... something to give a bit more of the feel of the extreme complexity of ground targets. If often thought a hybrid campaign that would mix hand-made/scripted missions with generated missions would be required to produce that feel (I seem to recall that this was discussed as a possibility early on)?

 

Anyway, it is interesting to hear about what is possible and could be done procedurally and how the campaign generator works. These are complex and difficult problems - and that makes them fascinating.

[40plus]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

 We don't really have valleys in the Netherlands (a major portion of the Rheinland map)?. That's why we've got so many dykes (which would be very cool to see though - although probably hard to implement). Bridges here really do have those "ridiculous ramps".

 

Well I learned something today. I retract my statement but leave it to highlight my ignorance!

 

I'm sure the ramps are very nice in person.