G2 derated or not derated! Here is the solution!

[SR-F_Winger]

Just release the G2 in 2 variants. One derated to 1.3 ata as we have it right now and one NOT derated with full power.

Missionmakers can then decide wich one to use in their missions or just i.e. limit numbers.

 

[HagarTheHorrible]

Then we end up with the situation we had in RoF. Everybody just ignored the vanilla DVII , so you ended up with the "f" being the default and the altitude throttle (The clue is in the name) being used as a WEP boost with no regard for anything other than winning the next fight rather than any historical consideration.

 

I'm not saying the G2 is right or wrong, I simply don't know, it's just that having two power variants of the same aircraft didn't prove a perfect panacea for RoF.

Edited May 4, 2014 by HagarTheHorrible

[Crump]

It did not for CloD either.  Everybody just uses the 100 Octane variants without regard to history but at least they are available for players to choose.

[DD_bongodriver]

It did not for CloD either.  Everybody just uses the 100 Octane variants without regard to history but at least they are available for players to choose.

 

Nonsense, they use the 100 octane version because it was the main fuel being used by front line squadrons.

[MiloMorai]

Nonsense, they use the 100 octane version because it was the main fuel being used by front line squadrons.

 

There are those that are in utterly total denial about the widespread use on 100 octane fuel by RAF FC during the BoB. So sad.

[sturmkraehe]

Mh. I don't understand this drive for the late G2. Axis side will have the superior plane of the whole planeset available for this scenario. The La5 might come close but not enough to take away the crown as it won't be the F or FN version anyway. So if the G2 is on some aspects worse than the F4 (but better on others) does not make the axis side the underdogs. Just choose the F4 if it suits you better. Allied side has to content with inferior planes since weeks and even the Yak1 - while an improvement over the LaGG3 - won't make the balance swing to the other side. Nor will the La5 even if it will become tougher for the axis pilots. Axis side does not have much to complain I think. It will even get the Focke-Wulf 190A3.

 

I am certain that when addons will be released on scenarios that have seen the later G2 it will be there.

[Volkoff]

When the DVIIf was introduced into ROF, the SPAD XIII and SE5a outclassed the DVII in a number of significant ways and could dictate the terms of a fight to the DVII. The derated G2, F4, and future A3, will hold significant advantages against VVS opponents. The worst performing BF-109 in game will be able to dictate the terms of a fight to the best performing VVS ride. If anything, the VVS could use a better performing fighter, but I don't see that happening in the immediate future. The next VVS fighter, after the La-5,  will be the I-16. Try extending away from a derated BF-109 G2 in that machine. 

 

 MJ

Edited May 4, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[SR-F_Winger]

I mean i prefer the F anyways and personally dont have a problem not using the G2 at all. As is, the G2 is just of no use for anyone at all but maybe people that do not want to care about their revs/ata/temps.

Might as well have not been developed at all:) Waste of resources IMHO

Edited May 5, 2014 by VSG1_Winger

[Sakkay]

It is possible to tell it if they do it properly then onto how much okay. The max. it 1.3,till then you're welcome to speak.   Mainly,that the JAK already can be driven.

Excuse me, my English.

[Kurfurst]

Just release the G2 in 2 variants. One derated to 1.3 ata as we have it right now and one NOT derated with full power.

Missionmakers can then decide wich one to use in their missions or just i.e. limit numbers.

 

In principle I agree, as there is clear documentation of the fully rated G-2s in late 1942/early 1943. From the practical viewpoint, its a more mixed matter - given the fully rated F-4 and derated G-2 have practically the same performance, there is little point of having a derated G-2; however, while there is ample documentation for the derated G-2s performance, including some very through Soviet trials, its very hard to find such performance documents for the fully rated one. Though the performance can be estimated with good accuracy at about 550/685 kph top speed and about 23 m/sec peak climb rate.

[ImPeRaToR]

Or we could just ask for a Me262, it is up to the mission maker to use them!

 

Mh. I don't understand this drive for the late G2. Axis side will have the superior plane of the whole planeset available for this scenario. The La5 might come close but not enough to take away the crown as it won't be the F or FN version anyway. So if the G2 is on some aspects worse than the F4 (but better on others) does not make the axis side the underdogs. Just choose the F4 if it suits you better. Allied side has to content with inferior planes since weeks and even the Yak1 - while an improvement over the LaGG3 - won't make the balance swing to the other side. Nor will the La5 even if it will become tougher for the axis pilots. Axis side does not have much to complain I think. It will even get the Focke-Wulf 190A3.

 

I am certain that when addons will be released on scenarios that have seen the later G2 it will be there.

yep, I believe the skin thread is already called "G-2 early", so this implies there will at least be a "G-2 late" as well, no idea if it will be derated but I think it is safe to assume so. When that one is released I am pretty sure we will see either Yak1b or La5F debuting on the Russian side, or even both.

[qtStamphth]

The Bf109 G-2 did not have any reinforcements to the cockpit associated with the G-1 pressurized variant.  The added weight of the G-2 compared to the F-4 came from what is needed to accomodate the more powerfull engine (DB 605A over the DB 601E from the Bf109 F4) this added reinforcements made to the airframe to accomodate the heavier engine (redesigned block due to the larger cylinders) and the engine weight itself.  The G-2 did not have added weight around the cockpit due to pressurization needs whatsoever (#447 Grinsell). 

 

Book about Messerschmidt Bf109 by Robert Grinsell, copyright 1980. 

 

I have not bought il2 BOS yet but how much faster is the G-2 compared to the F4?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The Bf109 G-2 did not have any reinforcements to the cockpit associated with the G-1 pressurized variant.  The added weight of the G-2 compared to the F-4 came from what is needed to accomodate the more powerfull engine (DB 605A over the DB 601E from the Bf109 F4) this added reinforcements made to the airframe to accomodate the heavier engine (redesigned block due to the larger cylinders) and the engine weight itself.  The G-2 did not have added weight around the cockpit due to pressurization needs whatsoever (#447 Grinsell). 

 

Book about Messerschmidt Bf109 by Robert Grinsell, copyright 1980. 

 

I have not bought il2 BOS yet but how much faster is the G-2 compared to the F4?

Depends on the altitude. They different performance envelopes.

[qtStamphth]

Depends on the altitude. They different performance envelopes.

 

At low altitude (below 1000m) what's the speed difference, however small that may be?  Sometimes I wonder if the G-2's "more powerfull engine" really translates to significantly added horizontal speed?

[Cpt_Branko]

Well, if you compare G2 and F4 where G2 is derated and F4 is running on maximum boost, then the powers are preety similar. However you won't run the F4 on maximum boost all day (ingame it will just die inexplicably).

 

With that in mind, here are the curves of both engines:

DB601E

 

DB605A

 

Yes, the DB605A is noticeably more powerful engine when you compare 1.3 ata setting on both.