New AMD Zen2 CPUs may be released before Zen 3

[Jaws2002]

Looks like AMD may have a quick response to the latest Intel 10 series CPU's. 

 With the TSMC 7nm production being more mature and refined, AMD decided to release few Zen2 Ryzen 3000 CPUs with higher boost clock to keep Intel under water until Zen 3 arrives, in September.

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-3900xt-ryzen-7-3800xt-ryzen-5-3600xt-matisse-refresh-desktop-cpu-clock-speed-rumor/

 

Here's what they have in mind:

AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT  with 4.1GHz base clock and 4.8 GHz boost will replace  Ryzen 9 3900X 

AMD Ryzen 7 3800XT  with 4.2GHz base clock and 4.7 GHz boost clock will replace Ryzen 7 3800X 

AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT  with 4.0 GHz base clock and 4.7 GHz boost will replace Ryzen 5 3600X

 

They plan to release this new CPUs at the same price the CPU they will replace are selling for now and discount the originals further. 

If the rumors are correct, this is going to be just clock boost with some minor refinements, the core count and cache stays the same.

 This should bring a pretty decent performance boost in most applications.  This game may not be able to see the difference. I had a 3600x and the switch to 3950x got me three FPS. 

 Zen 3, with it's shared cache and infinity fabric improvements should make a difference, so I'd wait for that one.

 

  All the rumors point to this chips being released in Jully.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Thanks for the info. On your upgrade It's the same cores just more of them, you wont get more FPS in this game unless they are faster cores so this should help especially for VR users where the CPU is taxed 2X as much. I'm waiting for Zen3 to upgrade my 3800X. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by driftaholic

[Jaws2002]

29 minutes ago, driftaholic said:

Thanks for the info. On your upgrade It's the same cores just more of them, you wont get more FPS in this game unless they are faster cores so this should help especially for VR users where the CPU is taxed 2X as much. I'm waiting for Zen3 to upgrade my 3800X. 

 

They are a bit faster. I did see the 3950x boost to 4.75Ghz on occasions.  The 3600x didn't get over 4.4 Ghz, but generally you are right. They are the same cores, just cherry picked.

This upcoming Zen 2 CPUs on the other hand have 200-300Mhz increase in both base and boost clock, so they may have a more visible advantage.

 

Either way Zen 3 is just four months away now, so that's a much better upgrade plan.

 

I'll upgrade the GPU this fall, but in CPU department i have everything i need right now.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Jaws2002

[JG7_X-Man]

My last AMD was an Anthlon (you young bucks may have to Google that one) LOL.

 

The reason I stay with Intel is reliability - core optimization and higher cache and memory latency issues plague AMD products.

I build, overclock, and forget. After looking at numbers all day - I don't have time to tinker for system stabilization.

My 7700K has been running at 4.9GHz with no issues for 3-4 yrs now  (the fact that I have forgotten tells it all).

 

It's like a Chevy Corvette C8 vs Mercedes-AMG GT Coupe - both are fast but certainly not equal.

[Beazil]

Athlon.  My last was a Phenom 2.  I like to see AMD do well.  Competition is good.  Currently an Intel user.  I like what I'm seeing lately though.  You could go either way right now and I think AMD might have an edge in many markets.  This is good.  But I hear you X-man.

[JG7_X-Man]

Love it! Phenom 2! 

I agree - AMD's success will keep Intel honest and competition drives innovation.

[Beazil]

Actually my first 486 DX 50 chip was an AMD.  It was followed by a "586 P-75".  

Ugh, siderailing the conversation.  Sorry.

Edited May 27, 2020 by JG51_Beazil

[RIPSkyKingTasmanaut]

AMD is doing this just because they can at this point. This is how far they have come from a struggling company, to one that is about to obliterate Intel's market share. This zen 2 refresh will be competitive and economical price-to-performance against cometlake and icelake intel chips, and while probably a worth holding off until zen 3, for anyone needing an upgrade now its not a terrible solution. Zen 3 should see not just competitive results in gaming application, but actual dominance in raw gaming performance. Anyone that has bought the latest intel chips is sure to be salty when ryzen 4000 drops. 

[Jaws2002]

22 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

My last AMD was an Anthlon (you young bucks may have to Google that one) LOL.

 

The reason I stay with Intel is reliability - core optimization and higher cache and memory latency issues plague AMD products.

I build, overclock, and forget. After looking at numbers all day - I don't have time to tinker for system stabilization.

My 7700K has been running at 4.9GHz with no issues for 3-4 yrs now  (the fact that I have forgotten tells it all).

 

It's like a Chevy Corvette C8 vs Mercedes-AMG GT Coupe - both are fast but certainly not equal.

 

 

Things changed since 7700k. 

 This is my first AMD build. i had nothing but Intel CPUs until last November. But intel has been sleeping at the wheel for a while now. AMD has the performance edge in everything, except older games.

      In servers AMD is dominating by a huge margin. The workstation world also has AMD chips at the top. In the mainstream AMD has the performance crown in anything that makes good use of multiple cores. AMD chips are also better value. Even in gaming, newer games, that have more modern engines are not running better on Intel than on AMD.

        This "new' 10th series of Intel chips is a pathetic refresh of a refresh. They got a few extra frames per second at the expense of huge power consumption and heat generation. 

 AMD plans to negate that narrow advantage in games with this Zen 2 refresh and they have a complete new architecture, on an already matured 7nm process coming in September, with Zen 3. That will most likely dominate Intel chips at everything, and I expect the server and workstation chips, based on Zen3 to widen the performance and productivity gap even further.

   You are living in the past. Intel is not what it used to be. 

 

The influence of the CPU in gaming is very overrated anyway. Most modern six or more core CPUs can run everything decent, except maybe in VR, with it's poor optimization. Once you crank up the resolution and detail, the gap narrows to few frames difference between the best and the lower half of the pack.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Jaws2002

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Some leaked benchmarks already showed the XT-series beat the new 10th gen Intels in single core results in Cinebench 20, with 500MHz less frequency. Of course take with a grain of salt, but if true then things look good for the new 4000-series Ryzen. And as stated above AMD mops the floor with Intel in anything that is related to multithreaded workloads. All with less MHz which leads to my uneducated guess that if games would really be done to fully support multiple cores and threads the sky would be the limit. Less power and heat for more performance. Nevertheless very interesting times for enthusiasts regardless what brand you favor.

[ZachariasX]

Looking good.

 

 

From here.

[kendo]

I've been considering a system upgrade for the last 6 months. Currently still using a 2011-vintage i5-2500k with 8GB of DDR3 1600 RAM. I've upgraded the video card several times over the years, but realise it's past time now for a full revamp (though I have to say i really lucked out with the 2500k - Sandybridge had just launched back then and it was a really big step forward at the time). DCS has been difficult for my system for some time, but increasingly il2-BOS is also demanding more horsepower.

 

I had been planning to get the Intel i5-10600KF when it was launched, but delving deeper into the specs, it just seems to be the last, tired gasp for that particular architecture .As others have said, the power draw is increased, no PCIe 4, poor DDR4 memory speed support. And intel's habit of abandoning / replacing sockets with regularity. So, i've put a new system on hold until I hear more about the Ryzen 4000 series. 

 

I've also heard positive noises about the next Intel CPU generation which could possibly launch before the end of the year. Unconfirmed reports about it being a major leap forwards.

 

At the moment i'm tending towards Ryzen 4000, but either way it seems waiting is best option right now.

 

Also hoping to hear more about DDR5 memory, though probably not expecting to get support for it within next few months.   

Edited June 4, 2020 by kendo

[MarderIV]

49 minutes ago, kendo said:

Also hoping to hear more about DDR5 memory

 

I've been stuck with an FX6100 since I bought it and only recently started planning for an upgrade. Realizing DDR5 was coming up really threw me in for a loop. I mean, at this point I really need an upgrade, but with the expected release window for DDR5 I'm really starting to doubt whether I should upgrade or wait for it. Is DDR5 really that big of a deal? I mean for Il-2 and likely FS2020. 

 

I honestly don't know if I'll be shooting myself in the foot if I upgrade now, only to find the need to perform another one in a year or two. 

[kendo]

I faced the same situation last time with the DDR3 to DDR4 transition. DDR4 modules had started coming out, but were substantially more expensive, and not well supported.

 

I think it will be a similar process with DDR5. Don't think they are likely to be available for desktop systems before 2021, and it may actually be into 2022. The performance improvement looks big and worthwhile, but not sure i can wait that long. Hopefully may be able to get an MB later this year with DDR5 support at least, but afaik Ryzen 4000 won't be doing it.  

Edited June 4, 2020 by kendo

[RedKestrel]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:44 AM, ZachariasX said:

Looking good.

 

 

From here.

Considering I am looking seriously at getting a setup with a Ryzen 3600X, that's some great news - a 3600XT beating out i7-10700k in single core speed is pretty impressive, considering the (likely) price difference. The intel is priced about twice as much as the 3600X right now, so even if the price of the XT is higher than the chip it replaces its still a better deal.

Luckily that is an upgrade over the next year or so so I can afford to wait and see what comes out of this.

 

2 hours ago, MarderIV said:

 

I've been stuck with an FX6100 since I bought it and only recently started planning for an upgrade. Realizing DDR5 was coming up really threw me in for a loop. I mean, at this point I really need an upgrade, but with the expected release window for DDR5 I'm really starting to doubt whether I should upgrade or wait for it. Is DDR5 really that big of a deal? I mean for Il-2 and likely FS2020. 

 

I honestly don't know if I'll be shooting myself in the foot if I upgrade now, only to find the need to perform another one in a year or two. 

It's certainly been theorized that Il-2 really likes fast memory so if DDR5 is significantly faster it could be worth it, but waiting for the right Mobo/processor combo to go along with it might mean you miss out on a year or two of improved performance just to 'future proof'. And if the first implementations of DDR5 are less than ideal you might pay an early adopter price by going with that before it matures a bit.

You could split the difference and shell out for ultra fast DDR4 and a solid mobo with one of these new chips out soon and you'd probably be relatively future proof.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

I have a feeling that if the refresh XT CPUs are coming the 4000-series might be a bit delayed. Why release a refresh if A totally new CPU is around the corner? 

 

I will get the new Ryzen, whenever it comes. But propably with less cores this time. Shall see whtt models there will be, but now going for GHz

[RedKestrel]

42 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

I have a feeling that if the refresh XT CPUs are coming the 4000-series might be a bit delayed. Why release a refresh if A totally new CPU is around the corner? 

 

I will get the new Ryzen, whenever it comes. But propably with less cores this time. Shall see whtt models there will be, but now going for GHz

I think you're right,It wouldn't be surprising at all if the new architecture was delayed. With all kinds of kinks in the supply chain, it probably is very tempting to wring as much as you can out of any mature or stable bit of hardware you can. Plus releasing a brand new chip architecture when many people are cash strapped makes less economic sense - you can make the best chips in the world but you'er SOL if only a few can afford them.

[ZachariasX]

48 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

The intel is priced about twice as much as the 3600X right now, so even if the price of the XT is higher than the chip it replaces its still a better deal.

If you look here, you can see that AMD X570 and B550 are to support the 4000 series Ryzen. You can put in an affordable CPU now that still does a decent joob and just get a Zen3 once they will be available toward the end of the year.

 

The XT series are just a direct answer to Socket1200 CPUs and make use of process improvements. I don't think it means that Zen3 is delayed. It is spitting in Intels soup for free.

[RedKestrel]

Just now, ZachariasX said:

If you look here, you can see that AMD X570 and B550 are to support the 4000 series Ryzen. You can put in an affordable CPU now that still does a decent joob and just get a Zen3 once they will be available toward the end of the year.

 

That's good to know! Right now my processor is still handling everything I throw at it OK, and I don't have the funds for a full upgrade now anyway. So it's wait and see regardless. 

But its certainly a good thing that currently available motherboards are going to support the next gen processors. It takes a bit of the anxiety and FOMO out of deciding what to buy. 

[Vortice]

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

If you look here, you can see that AMD X570 and B550 are to support the 4000 series Ryzen. You can put in an affordable CPU now that still does a decent joob and just get a Zen3 once they will be available toward the end of the year.

 

My plan in a nutshell. I have an X570 motherboard, a 3700X processor and 32GB DDR4 so I'm ready and waiting for Zen3 to arrive.

 

My current configuration works just fine at the moment, but I'm really interested to see what my new Zen3 CPU will bring to the party.

[IckyATLAS]

I have always been intel and my CPU is a 9900KS at 5GHZ across all cores. Consumption and heat is high but still the best performance for this game.

Nevertheless I agree that AMD has progressed so much that we may be at the point where even for this game AMD may become better than Intel. The jury is out but this fall things should be clear.

 

If only we could find a technology that would allow for 7 or more GHZ without melting the CPU. A purely optical CPU could run a THZ speed with nearly no power consumption. But this isn't coming soon.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[CanadaOne]

Need to upgrade my i5-6500 and looking at the Ryzens, of course. But the prices are up there. The 3300X was $189 yesterday and is $269 today. Don't know what happened there. The  rest of the lineup are a good $50+ higher than usual. If I can maintain some patience, I'll put a few bucks aside for a 3700X ($470), that's as fancy as I need or want. 

 

And PSUs are in short supply it seems. Low end and high end are there, but mid range (600w to 800w) are gone or pricey.

[Bernard_IV]

AMD's are getting fast finally!  This competition will be great for all of us.

[Jaws2002]

10 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

With all kinds of kinks in the supply chain, it probably is very tempting to wring as much as you can out of any mature or stable bit of hardware you can. Plus releasing a brand new chip architecture when many people are cash strapped makes less economic sense - you can make the best chips in the world but you'er SOL if only a few can afford them.

  

There will be no issues on the CPU side of the supply chain.  TSMC just cut off all the orders fron Huawei, under US pressure, So AMD can even order more chips than they already had in the initial contract. 

   Of course, all kind of other issues can show up to delay the product, but there's plenty room on the production line for Zen 3. 

AMD said in the spring, they will launch  the new chips, together with the new GPUs in September.  This week they said that their new GPUs will come before the upcoming play station and Xbox. The next gen consoles are coming in December, so the new AMD GPUs should be out before then. Most likely the CPUs as well.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Big-Navi-GPU-Predicted-to-Launch-in-September

5 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

If only we could find a technology that would allow for 7 or more GHZ without melting the CPU.

 

 

A better solution is to update this old game engines, so they can actually use all this computing power that's sitting idle in today's CPUs.

  

Edited June 5, 2020 by Jaws2002

[IckyATLAS]

4 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

  

There will be no issues on the CPU side of the supply chain.  TSMC just cut off all the orders fron Huawei, under US pressure, So AMD can even order more chips than they already had in the initial contract. 

   Of course, all kind of other issues can show up to delay the product, but there's plenty room on the production line for Zen 3. 

AMD said in the spring, they will launch  the new chips, together with the new GPUs in September.  This week they said that their new GPUs will come before the upcoming play station and Xbox. The next gen consoles are coming in December, so the new AMD GPUs should be out before then. Most likely the CPUs as well.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Big-Navi-GPU-Predicted-to-Launch-in-September

 

 

A better solution is to update this old game engines, so they can actually use all this computing power that's sitting idle in today's CPUs.

  

There is the other alternative, like using the new Unreal 5 engine. Today using an old engine and trying to improve it may be cheaper but you will always lag behind those that are focused on doing graphic engines for living. IL2 dev team should focus developing the game the models etc. and not the engine. The problem here is that over so many years everything has been I suppose tweaked and stepwise improved to pull out of the old engine whatever they can still with graphic issue like cloud background, that changing graphic engine becomes a near impossibility or a very expensive exercise that is beyond the financial capability of the team.

There is one open question for me and that is the adaptability of Unreal 5 to a game like IL2. Unreal 5 is perfect maybe for Tomb Rider, but is it for IL2. 

 

And by the way I wonder what is the graphic engine used for the new Microsoft Flight Sim 2020 ? 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[RedKestrel]

5 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

There is the other alternative, like using the new Unreal 5 engine. Today using an old engine and trying to improve it may be cheaper but you will always lag behind those that are focused on doing graphic engines for living. IL2 dev team should focus developing the game the models etc. and not the engine. The problem here is that over so many years everything has been I suppose tweaked and stepwise improved to pull out of the old engine whatever they can still with graphic issue like cloud background, that changing graphic engine becomes a near impossibility or a very expensive exercise that is beyond the financial capability of the team.

There is one open question for me and that is the adaptability of Unreal 5 to a game like IL2. Unreal 5 is perfect maybe for Tomb Rider, but is it for IL2. 

 

And by the way I wonder what is the graphic engine used for the new Microsoft Flight Sim 2020 ? 

 

I don't know enough about game engines and everything. But I imagine that trying to take for example a FPS-oriented engine and jam a flight sim into it would cause all sorts of problems, and maybe take more work to kludge together than to just build your own engine. There aren't many games coming out today that aren't set on a scale designed for an on-foot human to navigate.

I think DCS and Il-2 both use custom engines for that reason. And from what I can tell so does MSFS 2020.

[Rei-sen]

Well, Kerbal Space Program which was made with Unity doesn't have any problems with big scale for example. I did some research and I found some interesting projects on Unity.

This one looks very nice, especially yaw movement starting from 0:51:

 

This guy is doing pretty impressive stuff. I'd like to see some flyby views of his models, since it's hard to judge when the ground is just a flat grey tiles.

 

There are also some stuff made on Unreal engine.

But I think the ideal engine would be this:

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Arthur-A

[RedKestrel]

Has anyone here tried the XT processors yet? I'm wondering if the supposed singe-thread improvements translate into better performance in Il-2, or if its still comparable to earlier models. Right now they are about  $50 more expensive than the X model processors, wondering if it is worth it, or better to wait for the Zen 3s.

[unlikely_spider]

24 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Has anyone here tried the XT processors yet? I'm wondering if the supposed singe-thread improvements translate into better performance in Il-2, or if its still comparable to earlier models. Right now they are about  $50 more expensive than the X model processors, wondering if it is worth it, or better to wait for the Zen 3s.

I still have a 2700 and am skipping this gen, even the XT ones, in favor of the upcoming processors in the fall/winter, especially since they announced support for older chipsets.

[Jaws2002]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

Has anyone here tried the XT processors yet? I'm wondering if the supposed singe-thread improvements translate into better performance in Il-2, or if its still comparable to earlier models. Right now they are about  $50 more expensive than the X model processors, wondering if it is worth it, or better to wait for the Zen 3s.

 

Nope. The desktop Renoir APUs, released to OEM partners last week, are more interesting than the XT lineup.

  Because of the monolithic design, some overclockers got the infinity fabric to 2200Mhz with water cooling. Most Ryzen 3000 series chips can't get 1900Mhz. This are limited in other areas and don't look like good gaming CPUs, but the unified L3 cache does look interesting and may make Zen 3 even more disruptive.

  Last quarter of this year should be pretty interesting, when it comes to computer hardware.....if we don't wipe ourselves out, with all the madness that's going on around the globe.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Jaws2002

[Gambit21]

On 7/28/2020 at 2:06 PM, Jaws2002 said:

...if we don't wipe ourselves out, with all the madness that's going on around the globe.

 

 

 

Through it all my face looks like it always has despite the lunacy around me.

 

I’m looking at Ryzen 4000 and one of those new GPU’s - not sure which.

I never go bleeding edge (Ti)