Alt-Vis for VR

[VR-DriftaholiC]

With the current discussions of VR Zoom. Would it be possible to set ALt-Vis in the same manner as Techno-Chat? Meaning, the server has the option to force off but if it's enabled the player can choose to enable or disable it. Alternatively since the game is aware it's in VR mode maybe just allow this option for players in VR if balancing is a concern.

 

Let's not make this a topic about VR Zoom, only Alt-Vis settings. 

[Floppy_Sock]

I don’t think alt-vis is a temporary solution to the zoom issue.

 

Zoom is still very important for contacts within the 10km bubble(Alt vis doesn’t effect rendering within that radius). Most importantly to ID targets in the 3-5km range depending on HMD.
 

 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

You guys just need to accept the fact that VR is not ready for flight simulation yet due to its poor resolution. Nobody is forcing you to use it. You can also just go to servers which use icons. 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

58 minutes ago, Floppy_Sock said:

I don’t think alt-vis is a temporary solution to the zoom issue.

 

Zoom is still very important for contacts within the 10km bubble(Alt vis doesn’t effect rendering within that radius). Most importantly to ID targets in the 3-5km range depending on HMD.

 

It's true,  though I can live with the current 1.5X zoom if I have something like Alt-Vis to aid in just finding the aircraft to ID.

 

50 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

You guys just need to accept the fact that VR is not ready for flight simulation yet due to its poor resolution. Nobody is forcing you to use it. You can also just go to servers which use icons. 

 

So in that respect you would be OK without Alt-Vis if you only had 1.5X zoom available to you on your monitor? It should be no problem since because screens are superior and VR is not ready? If that's the case maybe we should be limiting the capabilities of monitor users. Because that is what we have in VR. 

 

 

So tell me, is the problem that Alt Vis is an advantage? I understand many people did not like to use it but they only had the choice of everyone or nobody. So if it's not perceived as an advantage then why wouldn't it be OK for VR users to be able to turn in on independently from those who don't want it?

 

You comment is almost entirely off-topic, If you're just here to dump on VR go piss on some other thread.

[SharpeXB]

19 minutes ago, driftaholic said:

So in that respect you would be OK without Alt-Vis if you only had 1.5X zoom available to you on your monitor? 

I wouldn’t want Alternate Visibility in any situation because it’s basically a bug. 

20 minutes ago, driftaholic said:

You comment is almost entirely off-topic,

And you’re resurrecting a locked topic under another title... ?

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I wasn't aware of a topic about Alt-Vis that's locked. I specifically asked for this not to be a discussion about VR-Zoom. The readiness of VR isn't a suggestion for the game or a counter point to having a option available to everyone or at least VR players. Alt-Vis would at least allow the spotting of aircraft at far distances where super-sampling or AA would extinguish those contacts otherwise. I recall most players problems with Alt-Vis was that it interacts with zoom weirdly and causes the sizes to fluctuate. They couldn't turn it off except by the server settings and likewise those who liked it couldn't turn it on. I enjoyed it and at the time played on a monitor. So if it's not considered an advantage why not let it be a player side option with the server being able to force off like Techno-Chat has now become. If it's considered an advantage then would it still be one if only allowed for users in their VR headsets that are as you say not ready and have poor resolution and don't have the same in game features as a monitor.

 

Honestly I think of it more as an accessibility option that could help people with poor eyesight as well.

Edited May 23, 2020 by driftaholic

[Beazil]

46 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I wouldn’t want Alternate Visibility in any situation because it’s basically a bug. 

And you’re resurrecting a locked topic under another title... ?

And if I didn't know any better I might think you were deliberately trying to stir the pot again.

[QB.Shallot]

It would depend on the games settings, but the problem you’re trying to fix isn’t going to be done through alt vis.

The problem with VR with the lack of zoom isn’t spotting, it’s ID, and if you’re target is a big fat blob, you still won’t be able to ID it. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by QB.Shallot

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, QB.Shallot said:

but the problem you’re trying to fix isn’t going to be done through alt vis.

True. Remember Alt Vis only affects targets beyond 10km

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I think I need to clarify, there are a few problems in my experience:

 

1) Spotting contacts at about long distances due to super sampling or anti aliasing extinction. This is where Alt-Vis helps. I don't think being able to find targets to potentially identify at this range is an unreasonable advantage provided by Alt-Vis. You can't identify them because when zooming in they loose the Alt-Vis size modifier. Seems fair enough and replicates being able to spot in reality in my opinion. 

 

2) Identifying targets at medium ranges. Right after Alt-Vis no longer works the targets are still too far away to zoom in enough to identify in VR. More zoom would help or some other solution like a intermediate stage of Alt-Vis. On a monitor you can ID targets at this range in most instances due to the large amount of zoom more then the amount of resolution. Spotting these targets at medium ranges is a lot more consistent in this latest patch due to them not suddenly loosing or gaining reflectivity. If they are a black speck they stay that way and likewise a light speck since 4.006.

 

3) extinction of targets over the ground at 1-2KM. This may have been aided by FXAA as claimed, but FXAA also extinguishes targets beyond about 6KM unless they are in the 10KM Alt-Vis bubble.

 

The problem is 2 fold, if you increase SS to the point ID'ing becomes easier then spotting becomes negatively affected. This is where Alt-Vis can help. 

 

With that clarification would it really be so bad to allow Alt-Vis as an aid to players in VR or even all players in the same manner that Techno-Chat is currently. It can be disabled by the server but when enabled the players have the option not to use it if they don't like it. 

 

I think a lot of players didn't like it but weren't opposed to others having the option. Unfortunately it was either on for everyone or off for everyone.

 

Alternatively many may say it's to much of an advantage for monitor users. In that case can it be allowed only for VR users? The game does launch in a VR mode so this shouldn't be difficult to enable.  

Edited May 23, 2020 by driftaholic

[SharpeXB]

Servers can already decide to run Alt Vis or not. If you think it’s a help in VR then you can choose to play on a server with it enabled. Most players don’t like Alt Vis because it allows you to see aircraft from absurd distances. So finding a server which runs this might not be easy. Giving this ability to VR players but not others doesn’t make sense. Also in my experience with AV, running 4K resolution, it has no effect I can perceive. So if you’re using VR with a 2160 res (Reverb) or high pixel density it’s possible that AV won’t have any result for you. 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Servers can already decide to run Alt Vis or not. If you think it’s a help in VR then you can choose to play on a server with it enabled. Most players don’t like Alt Vis because it allows you to see aircraft from absurd distances.

While I don't think over 10KM is absurd by any means. It being enabled and forced on everyone seems to be the reason most servers have it turned off. It doesn't seem to be because spotting over 10KM was a problem.

 

9 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Giving this ability to VR players but not others doesn’t make sense

Why? They are clearly limited more so then other methods of viewing the game, you've said so yourself on many occasions. Should they be left hampered, or should some effort be placed to create some sort of parity? How would you suggest this parity is developed in the game?

 

12 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Also in my experience with AV, running 4K resolution, it has no effect I can perceive. So if you’re using VR with a 2160 res (Reverb) or high pixel density it’s possible that AV won’t have any result for you. 

I have owned DK2, O+, Reverb, and now Index. I regularly use only Alt-Vis in campaign mode with all of these headsets. I don't use icons or any other aids. It's worked the same across all of the headsets and even my 1440p monitor. Maybe there is some other bug you experience but I haven't seen any pixel density variable affecting how Alt-Vis works including various SS levels up to 500% lol. 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, driftaholic said:

Maybe there is some other bug you experience but I haven't seen any pixel density variable affecting how Alt-Vis works including various SS levels up to 500% lol. 

Doesn’t Berloga have AV enabled? Maybe I’m wrong. When it was supposedly enabled online I saw no difference. Or testing it in SP, which is harder because the QM starts you at 10km and you wouldn’t see the effect. 

1 hour ago, driftaholic said:

While I don't think over 10KM is absurd by any means. It being enabled and forced on everyone seems to be the reason most servers have it turned off. It doesn't seem to be because spotting over 10KM was a problem.

The problem is that it wasn’t just 10km it was more like across the entire map. Again just repeating what I’ve read, not having seen that myself. Your suggestion would require AV to be enabled in the first place which doesn’t seem popular.  

Edited May 24, 2020 by SharpeXB