Engine health - Bf110 - smoking

[jscharpf]

I play IL2 using the Normal difficulty settings with all other assists off, easy AI mode. I only play offline career.

(absolutely loving this game by the way!)

I am currently in the early days of a 110 career on the eastern front. On my most recent mission, we were attacking an enemy position, and I sustained a few minor flak hits on my left wing.

As I began heading home I usually use SHFT-A to level the plane and take a look at the outside view. I noticed on the left engine, there was a small stream of smoke. It looked white but could have been darker, it's hard to tell. At first I thought fuel from a wing fuel tank but all of the fuel gauges read the same, and this was coming directly from the bottom rear of the left engine.

I looked at all of the gauges that I could see (comparing right side engine to left side) oil pressure looked the same as the right engine, engine temps looked the same.. there was no indication of any problems other than the smoke.

Then the notice came "#1 Engine damaged".. which made sense, as it was smoking lol!  But still, there was no indication on any instruments.. I never lost oil pressure, and it was a LOOOONG trip home to base. I even purposely accelerated and did some maneuvers to put some stress on the engine, hoping so see some indicator change. Nothing. There was no apparent power loss. After a long return flight with a smoking left engine, I ended up landing with no issues and finished my mission.

The concern I have is that there was nothing in the cockpit that told me something was wrong. Is this because I'm using "Normal" settings? Is something being "corrected" for me? If I pushed the engine harder or went longer, would something eventually break? If so, there was nothing to indicate this.

 

Any advice? Are there gauges I'm not seeing that would show if this is leaking coolant or oil?

 

The reason I ask is that while now I am using Normal mode, eventually if I ever get good enough, I may go a little higher with the difficulty, and I want to make sure I manage my engine properly.

 

Jeff

[VSN_Razor]

Have you also checked the gauges outside of the cockpit on the nacelle of the engine?

 

 

[MattS]

 

A small oil or coolant leak could result in smoke, but until the fluid quantity is severely reduced it will continue to run normally - won't register that anything is wrong on any of your gauges over the course of a relatively short flight.

 

I suspect that is what is being simulated...it's not an issue of difficulty settings. Eventually when enough oil or coolant leaked out you would see loss of oil pressure / running rough, or overheating (depending on the nature of the damage). Plus a gradual buildup of black crud on the windscreen (for planes that have the engine in front of the pilot, of course ?).

[jscharpf]

Yes! They looked the same, (right engine and left engine). I don't know exactly how to read them. One of the gauges looks like pressure, but there are two arms. Another looks like temperature. And the third looks like that clock thing that I see for propeller pitch (I have no idea lol).. but bottom line is both engines look the same.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

Ok thanks MattS! That is what I was looking for. Next time I see this I will punish my engine more lol... or fly until it blows.. just to experience it

 

I really do love this game. I can almost feel how difficult it must have been for LW pilots to be told they will be flying the 110 lol!  

In my virtual career as a 109 pilot, we generally made it back from each mission, occasionally losing one pilot, sometimes two. (still on AI easy mode).

 

However, with the 110, every mission I lose a few pilots!! ?    So far I've made it back each time, but I've only completed 4 missions!  Each one is a challenge..

Love the firepower of the 110 guns though!! If I DO manage to get behind a smaller plane like the I-16, oh boy I make mincemeat out of it quickly then bug out!!

 

Jeff

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, jscharpf said:

Yes! They looked the same, (right engine and left engine). I don't know exactly how to read them. One of the gauges looks like pressure, but there are two arms. Another looks like temperature. And the third looks like that clock thing that I see for propeller pitch (I have no idea lol).. but bottom line is both engines look the same.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

Most likely you got a small coolant leak in the engine (white smoke). The engine temperatures won't spike immediately upon a coolant leak. once you engine runs out of coolant, it will pack up in short order. You may also have received a hit that damaged the engine, and it just took a long time for it to fail.

If you want a guided tour of the guages in the cockpits and what they all are, Requiem's Air Combat Tutorial Library has guides for every plane in the sim. The first few minutes of the video go over the guages in the plane.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwV5RLX7mkaDy5gTIiuwGmg

In most planes, you only need to monitor the temperatures, the Manifold Pressure, and the RPM to manage the engines. 

Depending on the plane, engine temps may have several different guages. For example, you may have oil temperature, coolant temperature, and cylinder head temperature (common for radial-engine planes). Keep within the limits specified in the tech specifications of the plane (either in game or on the forum under the Manuals section) and you are good to go. If you go over the limits, you have a short time to bring the temperature under control by adjusting radiators (if they are not automatic), or engine power (Throttle + RPM - some planes overheat readily at high engine power) or mixture (leaner mixtures result in higher temps). Going fast also helps keep your engine cool, so you are most likely to overheat on long climbs or in slow hard turning dogfights.. Some engines you have more time than others to deal with temperature. 

 

For Manifold Pressure/Boost, just keep to the limits in the tech specs and whatever timing limits there are.

 

For RPM, its the same - keep to the limits in the tech specs. RPM can give hints of engine damage - if you notice the RPM needle jumping around a bit, the engine is likely damaged. You can nurse the engine by pulling back throttle and RPM a bit to reduce stress and temperature and keep the engine going longer. Also, increasing mixture can help keep a damaged engine cool, or compensate for coolant loss for a short time.

Edited May 22, 2020 by RedKestrel
Wrong information, now removed

[Stoopy]

^^ In addition to all the above, would caution that I had a similar problem and it turned out to be a poorly installed thermostat gasket that was leaking coolant.  It's hard to spot and won't cause immediate cooling problems because the thermostat is still open and flowing coolant to the engine.   But upon landing and seeing the source of the leak inside the engine cowling, we removed the thermostat housing and found that a small piece of wienerschnitzel had been left on the gasket mating surface, causing poor contact and the ensuing leak.  Always make sure to clean those machined surfaces thoroughly and don't overdo it with the gasket sealant either since if you glob too much on there, it can get into the thermostat mechanism and gum things up plus make the schnitzel taste funny.

 

 

[LukeFF]

53 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

AFAIK the oil and fuel pressure guages do not function, I do not believe pressure is modeled in that way in the engine DM of the sim.

 

They are modeled and functional, yes.

[RedKestrel]

3 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

They are modeled and functional, yes.

I will edit my post. Thank you.

[Yogiflight]

13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

They are modeled and functional, yes.

So you can see loss of oil pressure? I always thought, this was not modelled and therefore didn't ever pay attention to it.

 

1 hour ago, jscharpf said:

Yes! They looked the same, (right engine and left engine). I don't know exactly how to read them. One of the gauges looks like pressure, but there are two arms. Another looks like temperature. And the third looks like that clock thing that I see for propeller pitch (I have no idea lol).. but bottom line is both engines look the same.

Indeed the prop pitch gauge is read as a clock. So you fly with ten past nine o'clock, for example.

Usually the first sign, that the engine is going to quit in not too far future is, the prop pitch starting sinking. So the best way, in my experience is to keep an eye on the prop pitch gauge.

 Preesure gauge is showing oil and fuel pressure.

[MattS]

57 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

^^ In addition to all the above, would caution that I had a similar problem and it turned out to be a poorly installed thermostat gasket that was leaking coolant.  It's hard to spot and won't cause immediate cooling problems because the thermostat is still open and flowing coolant to the engine.   But upon landing and seeing the source of the leak inside the engine cowling, we removed the thermostat housing and found that a small piece of wienerschnitzel had been left on the gasket mating surface, causing poor contact and the ensuing leak.  Always make sure to clean those machined surfaces thoroughly and don't overdo it with the gasket sealant either since if you glob too much on there, it can get into the thermostat mechanism and gum things up plus make the schnitzel taste funny.

 

 

 

I had that problem in an old Volvo of mine. Thermostat got schnitzelled in the open position, so it took forever to warm up!

[Stoopy]

Just now, MattS said:

 

I had that problem in an old Volvo of mine. Thermostat got schnitzelled in the open position, so it took forever to warm up!

 

Pre-chewed saurkraut as gasket sealer FTW!

 

[Yogiflight]

6 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

Pre-chewed saurkraut as gasket sealer FTW!

 

What did you think, why we eat that stuff, for its taste? Unlikely

[jscharpf]

LOL thanks for the replies. I will make sure my mechanic uses only Prestone brand snitzel next time.

 

On a (serious?) note lol.. so again, same thing happened only this time it was the right engine. This time it was enemy fire that caused it, but the smoke was coming from a different location.

First time (as I said) it was light tan/brown from the lower part of the rear of the engine. Seems like a leak. 

The next time it was definitely white smoke from the exhaust of the engine. This I know (from my RL experiences as a mechanic) is coolant and usually a blown head gasket. But in the case of this game, I assume a bullet did something to a radiator ????

 

Also keep in mind that I am on "NORMAL" mode, so from what I can see the computer is sort of taking care of the engine for me. It backs off on the throttle if I am on it too long.. etc..

 

So, my problem however, is this this. I still saw the same gauge behavior, meaning none of the gauges ever indicated anything bad.. even with a smoking engine... In this last instance, they both still showed the same value (left and right engines) even though I had the message "Right engine damaged".. and I didn't lose any power, flew all the way home, and landed..

 

Just not sure if I have a super duper durable engine or if it has something to do with the "NORMAL" settings.. (NORMAL gives some advantages but does not make the engine unbreakable as far as I know, or does it?).

 

Thanks again everyone, all things I am looking at.. and having fun.

 

Jeff

Edited May 22, 2020 by jscharpf

[jscharpf]

So.. not to beat a dead horse, lol.. however, something doesn't seem right.

I was just in a battle where my 110 was shot to pieces, both engines damaged, massive smoke also other damage to the plane.. 

Message "Engine 1 damaged" and "Engine 2 damaged"... both very low on power.. fuel leaks (at least the fuel gauge showed low fuel!)..

 

But.. no indications on ANY gauges that there is anything wrong with the engines! I would expect low oil pressure, high temperatures, something... 

 

Is there anything I am missing or do the gauges just not work?  Is it because I am on "NORMAL" or the AI difficulty is "EASY"?  

 

I can't seem to find documentation on these settings other than the check boxes..

 

I will not continue with this, as I'm sure you're all tired of it by now...this will be my last post regarding the engine gauges and I will do more google searches to see what I can find.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff