Thoughts on the aerodynamic penalty for .50" cal hits.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

11 minutes ago, Tatata_Time said:

Just ask yourself in what do YOUR interventions contribute? Are they also contributing in diluting the original post? Stop that crapp at this point a do it yourself a great favor.

So now you have gone from diluting the issue to personal attacks. If you really think that your contributions are really helping you have my pity. 

18 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:

To impress upon them the seriousness of the issue, and to hopefully get them address the issue sooner rather than later. This issue makes the game frustrating if you fly late-war allied birds that currently only have AP rounds.

The developers have have already acknowledged that they will take a second look. 

18 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:

 

18 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by 6./ZG26_Custard
Added info

[Creep]

8 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

The developers have have already acknowledged that they will take a second look. 

This is a combat flight sim, and the bullets don't work right. Perhaps you are content to let that sit for months on end without a resolution, but I am not.

 

I can't help but think that, based on your squad tag, you are not as concerned as I am because it does not adversely impact your experience at all.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

6 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:

This is a combat flight sim, and the bullets don't work right. Perhaps you are content to let that sit for months on end without a resolution, but I am not.

 

I can't help but think that, based on your squad tag, you are not as concerned as I am because it does not adversely impact your experience at all.

I am always concerned and as a customer like you I want the most realistic sim that we can have with the current technology available. Further more, I don't limit myself to flying just axis aircraft. The problem is that a change to AP rounds or the damage modelling will not be a simple job and will effect multiple variables not just the M2. It's good that they (Dev's) have acknowledged that they will take a second look. Hopefully we will have more information forthcoming in the very near future. 

[CountZero]

We know problem is in AP ammo and not some type of gun or netcode or aim harder and so on:

 

From 4.005 update:

"Aircraft Damage Model Improvements

11. All aircraft got the new, significantly more advanced version of the airframe damage calculations: each aircraft has its own geometrical sizes of the airframe parts and the material types while the damage calculations take into account the peculiarities of the AP, blast and fragmentation damage;

12. A complete rework of aircraft skin damage calculations has been done and it now takes into account the projectile caliber or its HE capability: now AP ammo and bullets damage the aircraft skin to much lesser extent than HE ammo while ramming an aircraft with a propeller of another instantly causes severe aircraft skin damage;"

And short after that update complains started about how week 0.50cal guns are and more importantly also how MGs on mc202 are all of suden wek also.

What they have incomon is that only them have 12.7 cal MGs with AP ammo only. 
Thats how bug with 12.7 MG belt on MC202 was found, it was full of AP only insted intended HE+AP+HE mix in belt it should have. 
People complained it guns are week and then we check game files of MC202 with modextractor and see that it dosent have HE+AP+HE mix but only AP+AP+AP. 

Thats why after 4.005 people started to complain about it, funny thing is how mc202 12.7mm guns were AP+AP+AP only by mistake from day it was created 3-4years ago, but complains about it started after 4.005 patch that weekend AP rounds.

Also you can with simple mods easy replace ammo types of same gun to AP or HE only, and you can test and see that all MG with AP only rounds are mutch more weeker then same with HE only, and do similar damage no mather what gun you use. 

Its not gun, netcode as people test offline, aim harder problem its probem of week AP that were made with in 4.005 update.
And devs know it and like you see in last years dec post they gona look at it at some point. 

Now if same DEV guy is doing airplanes FM and DM, and they plan to make 20+ airplanes in this year, do anyone belive they gona do DM fixes anytime sone ? thats why i pointed at start of this topic this is all time waist as nothing gona be changed for long time ( even though simple AP+HE+AP mix would help as axis ammo belts are also not historic as of now with its HE+AP+HE mix) and people should just join RAF and fly Tempest+Spit14+Typhoon mix and leve american crap in hangar untill things are fixed. Or good forbid they could just go easy way and fly axis as other pro gamers do.

[HR_Zunzun]

4 hours ago, von_Tom said:

 

I'll respectfully disagree here, because if the .50s are buffed to allow for netcode issues then everything else should be buffed by the same amount as other rounds might also be affected, and then you have extremely unrealistic scenarios which will very much impact on online players with differing connections, and the offline players.

My lay view is that there seems to be something off with the .50s that is maybe made worse by net code and damage model issues, all of which are being conflated and being presented as solely a .50 cal problem.

 

But in all of this, I trust the devs to do whatever is needed.  It isn't blind trust, but is based on experiences in this platform since 2013.

 

von Tom

 

In that case all the affected gun should be modelled that way as well (although I think that no serious simmer would think that HE need any buffing at all).

So, my point still stands.

But in any case, as Countzero pointed out, no netcode is involved at all. Has been proved offline ad naesaum.

 

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I am always concerned and as a customer like you I want the most realistic sim that we can have with the current technology available. Further more, I don't limit myself to flying just axis aircraft. The problem is that a change to AP rounds or the damage modelling will not be a simple job and will effect multiple variables not just the M2. It's good that they (Dev's) have acknowledged that they will take a second look. Hopefully we will have more information forthcoming in the very near future. 

 

And again, that is exactly what they did by making the 109´s tail impervious to damage. They put a placeholder while looking for a solution because they reckoned it would take them a lot time. Now, almost 30% (if not more) of all mp planes have an invincible tail.

After almost one year, I see the AP problem in a similar way with a much easier implementation as place holder: Introduce in the 0.5 belt some sort of he round that would simulate what an api would do in real life (before anyone runs to dress his/her sim-hero cloak, the idea is not giving 0.5 and unrealistic buffed up effect, just a realistic one as a place holder until proper simulation of ap and introduction of api rounds can be achieved).

Edited February 4, 2021 by HR_Zunzun

[DBFlyguy]

Since the other .50 cal thread has been locked again... figured I'd share this recent video by IFlyCentral here.  He makes some really good points.  It'll be interesting to see once the 109 tail fix is finally released if this takes care of some of the issues and concerns with the .50s.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by DBFlyguy

[CountZero]

He should test 2x13mm and seeif thats how they should behave if AP 12.7 is all ok. Wonder why no one in ww2 test thouse 2 and say lets use HE when its 20x better in damageing airplanes, strange how they decided to just use AP, when they have so mutch better ammo type in HE, if game models HMG HE corectly no one in his right mined would use HMG AP ammo.

Edited April 1, 2021 by CountZero

[HR_Zunzun]

In any case, he didn´t understand the different complaints about the browning 12.7 guns. If he would have read the post and the numerous tests done about it he might have got the notion that the 12.7 has a problem with its inabilty to cause significant aerodynamic impact. That is not an opinion you can get through a sortie in youtube but the results of numerous tests performed in an organized way to prove it. The same way that it was proved that both german and russian HE rounds are overperforming in the same task.

Or just recently proved that the 20mm AP is also underperforming too.

The invulnerable tail is only one of the current DM problems.

In esence, that video doesn´t prove much.