Emergency Canopy release command

[II./JG27_Rich]

Say what you think yes or no.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Rama
Edited to make it a real Poll

[AndyJWest]

Doesn't using the normal 'open canopy' command in flight rip the canopy off anyway?

 

Edit: Just checked - it does, unless you are going slow (< 250 km/h or so, I think)

Edited May 1, 2014 by AndyJWest

[II./JG27_Rich]

Not really the right way. This is.

 

Edited May 1, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[AndyJWest]

Was the emergency canopy release actually intended to be used other than for bailing out? I'd have thought that given the chances of it hitting the tail, using it as a means to increase visibility would be risky. In any case, there are sliding side panels in the canopy, at least on the F-4. The G-2 is different - do the panels detach completely?

[Requiem]

There are aircraft other than the 109...   This affects all aircraft and should be brought back as its a valid control to use.

[II./JG27_Rich]

That's right the 190s canopy. What will happen when it comes out? The whole top section of the mid fuselage flies off and could actually do heavy damage to an aircraft that was behind it if it wasn't aware

 

Edited May 1, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[senseispcc]

Yes, but only if the real plane had it also! 

[II./JG27_Rich]

Yes, but only if the real plane had it also! 

But it did. Anyone who says not are usually pilots who have never flown one.

 

Edited May 3, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

Yes, but only if the real plane had it also! 

At 30 seconds he say "The canopy jettison is safety wired" I think that's proof

 

Edited May 3, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

Forward and down on the floor is an enormous and very effective ki-gas primer with a T-shaped handle. Directly above this and in line with the canopy seal is the red hood-jettison lever. Pulling this releases two very strong springs in the rear
part of the canopy and causes the rear section to come loose and, therefore, the whole main part of the hood is unhinged and can be pushed away into the airflow.



Mark Hanna speaking about the cockpit of a Bf 109 G10

[FuriousMeow]

Was the emergency canopy release actually intended to be used other than for bailing out? I'd have thought that given the chances of it hitting the tail, using it as a means to increase visibility would be risky. In any case, there are sliding side panels in the canopy, at least on the F-4. The G-2 is different - do the panels detach completely?

 

See, this is the thing - there's a picture in this thread of a 109's canopy blown off without any context. The canopy might just be out of frame, and it was blown off after the landing because it was jammed. Reading Lipfert's diary, when his screen is covered with oil he doesn't blow off his canopy - he crash lands with it still intact and closed. I'm pretty sure there were two scenarios it was used - to bail out or to get rid of the canopy after crash landing because it was jammed. I've never read of an instance where a pilot blew it off and proceeded to fly without it to a landing.

[II./JG27_Rich]

See, this is the thing - there's a picture in this thread of a 109's canopy blown off without any context. The canopy might just be out of frame, and it was blown off after the landing because it was jammed. Reading Lipfert's diary, when his screen is covered with oil he doesn't blow off his canopy - he crash lands with it still intact and closed. I'm pretty sure there were two scenarios it was used - to bail out or to get rid of the canopy after crash landing because it was jammed. I've never read of an instance where a pilot blew it off and proceeded to fly without it to a landing.

Look at the painting of the Spitfire and the 109 over the channel in the video. He's about to ditch in the channel and he's blown the canopy. This is Bob Doe's  incident with Rolf Pingel You can even see the canopy flying away behind the 109

 

http://forum.atgvintagewatches.com/showthread.php?1971-Bob-Doe-Farewell-to-another-of-The-Few

Edited May 5, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[216th_Peterla]

If the use is not abusive(to gather more vission) y second the idea. When I first see it was a cool adition to the simulator. Anyways this feature should have a negative impact on max speed and aerodynamics once ejected.

You have my positive vote.

[FuriousMeow]

Oh, great - a painting.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Oh, great - a painting.

Landing in water:

Landing in water will succeed well if certain things are taken into account. The canopy must unconditionally be jettisoned and saftety harness opened. The parachute harness must be completely detached from one's back. This is because the aircraft will begin sinking instantly asthe speed decreases. If possible, the landing must  be made paralle to the shoreline and as close to it as possible, into the wind.

 

 

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/pdf/bf109g6_english.pdf

Edited May 5, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[FuriousMeow]

It is a painting. You still have zero proof this ever occured prior to landing.

[BraveSirRobin]

If your 109 is sinking in the water around Stalingrad you have much worse problems than whether the canopy has a release switch.

[II./JG27_Rich]

It is a painting. You still have zero proof this ever occured prior to landing.

Instructions from a Finnish Bf 109 manual with strict instructions to jettison the canopy before a forced landing in water and Bob Doe and Rolf Pingel's painting will have to do for now until I find someone who had a movie camera handy filming the same thing

 

 

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/ChrisYeoman/2009-05-23_034448_LE15-A-Gentlemans-War-Spitfire-Me109.jpg

 

 

Landing in water:

Landing in water will succeed well if certain things are taken into account. The canopy must unconditionally be jettisoned and saftety harness opened. The parachute harness must be completely detached from one's back. This is because the aircraft will begin sinking instantly asthe speed decreases. If possible, the landing must  be made paralle to the shoreline and as close to it as possible, into the wind.

 

 

http://www.virtualpi...9g6_english.pdf

Edited May 5, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[FuriousMeow]

Paintings don't suffice. Instructions to jettison when landing in water, fine - I suppose but BSR is correct.

 

Hopefully the canopy will be more apt at doing damage to the vertical stabilizer when the canopy is ejected at higher speeds than just prior to crashing into water (that will actually just be ice around Stalingrad).

 

What's the real point of it? You blow off the hood with oil splurting on the canopy, guess where that oil goes when the hood is gone? Your face when you look into the slipstream - and that oil is going to be really hot. Not like ouch hot, like second degree burns at the least hot.

 

So what do you really want it for?

Edited May 5, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[II./JG27_Rich]

Paintings don't suffice. Instructions to jettison when landing in water, fine - I suppose but BSR is correct.

 

Hopefully the canopy will be more apt at doing damage to the vertical stabilizer when the canopy is ejected at higher speeds than just prior to crashing into water (that will actually just be ice around Stalingrad).

 

What's the real point of it? You blow off the hood with oil splurting on the canopy, guess where that oil goes when the hood is gone? Your face when you look into the slipstream - and that oil is going to be really hot. Not like ouch hot, like second degree burns at the least hot.

 

So what do you really want it for?

I want this to be historically correct. Like Cliffs of Dover. BOS had the propper way but they canceled it. Why? Blow your canopy and then bail...or maybe not. If this is supposed to be such a great sim they're wrecking it in this one area by not doing it the right way.

Edited May 5, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[AndyJWest]

For crying out aloud Rich, do you really think that missing out a single command 'wrecks' the sim? Get a sense of proportion.

 

Program two keys to open the canopy. Use one to open it normally, and the other as 'emergency release'. 

[II./JG27_Rich]

[II./JG27_Rich]

For crying out aloud Rich, do you really think that missing out a single command 'wrecks' the sim? Get a sense of proportion.

 

Program two keys to open the canopy. Use one to open it normally, and the other as 'emergency release'. 

Yes you're Andy. I mean it would just be all the better if they brought it back. How's that sound I took the G2 up and opened the canopy at about 220 kms. It opened wobbled for a while then flew away, not pretty

Edited May 6, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

 

Blew away at about 240 kph 

Edited May 6, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[Panzerlang]

Paintings don't suffice. Instructions to jettison when landing in water, fine - I suppose but BSR is correct.

 

Hopefully the canopy will be more apt at doing damage to the vertical stabilizer when the canopy is ejected at higher speeds than just prior to crashing into water (that will actually just be ice around Stalingrad).

 

What's the real point of it? You blow off the hood with oil splurting on the canopy, guess where that oil goes when the hood is gone? Your face when you look into the slipstream - and that oil is going to be really hot. Not like ouch hot, like second degree burns at the least hot.

 

So what do you really want it for?

 

Read Lipfert's book, he did exactly that and suffered zero burns (popped his canopy to see around the oiled windscreen, got it all over his face).

 

Arguing that 109 pilots never popped their canopies other than to bail out...priceless.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Thanks Siggi

[II./JG27_Rich]

I guess I've raised every point I can think of so that's about it unless someone comes up with a question. I think BOS is one of the two best WWII Combat Flight Sims out there right now and I really do love it. If I thought not why would I be tearing all over the place all day finding information on 109 canopies? If I thought it stunk I wouldn't bother with it. I wouldn't help with hunting down skin sugestions all the time or post all kinds of pictures of this that and the other thing. I just think bringing back this one feature will make this great sim all the better. 

Edited May 6, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

One more. You can see here that the Emergecy Canopy Release was once in the game. Go to 8:35

 

Edited May 6, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[FuriousMeow]

Read Lipfert's book, he did exactly that and suffered zero burns (popped his canopy to see around the oiled windscreen, got it all over his face).

 

Arguing that 109 pilots never popped their canopies other than to bail out...priceless.

 

What page? I'm re-reading it. He didn't pop it. He kept it closed when the P39 made a head on pass and took out his oil cooler.

 

Priceless indeed, I already said they popped them when jammed to disembark.

[II./JG27_Rich]

There it is  Finally found it!!

 

One third down the page

 

 

  "Canopy emergency remove"

 

http://www.skeletonc...php?topic=455.0

What page? I'm re-reading it. He didn't pop it. He kept it closed when the P39 made a head on pass and took out his oil cooler.

 

Priceless indeed, I already said they popped them when jammed to disembark.

Uh oh big trouble Siggi

Edited May 6, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[FuriousMeow]

"So I pressed all the triggers and fired everything I had. Just as we were about to collide the Russian suddenly pulled up. At the same instant there was a thump and oil covered my windscreen. There were still enemy aircraft behind me. I rolled my aircraft into a Split-S, but I had no idea where I was and in what direction I was flying. The compass had not yet settled down and I couldn't see the ground. If the Russians were still behind me then heaven wasn't far away. I opened a side window to get my bearings and saw tracer flying back and forth that I was over the front. I climbed to search for a field to land. I didn't have long to choose, the entire crate stank and shook so badly that I could barely keep it under control. I therefore made short work of things an dput my Messerschmitt down in a vineyard. It was belly landing number 3."

 

If anytime there was to get a better visibility it was then, with the oil covering the windscreen and yet Lipfert only opened a side window.

[II./JG27_Rich]

"So I pressed all the triggers and fired everything I had. Just as we were about to collide the Russian suddenly pulled up. At the same instant there was a thump and oil covered my windscreen. There were still enemy aircraft behind me. I rolled my aircraft into a Split-S, but I had no idea where I was and in what direction I was flying. The compass had not yet settled down and I couldn't see the ground. If the Russians were still behind me then heaven wasn't far away. I opened a side window to get my bearings and saw tracer flying back and forth that I was over the front. I climbed to search for a field to land. I didn't have long to choose, the entire crate stank and shook so badly that I could barely keep it under control. I therefore made short work of things an dput my Messerschmitt down in a vineyard. It was belly landing number 3."

 

If anytime there was to get a better visibility it was then, with the oil covering the windscreen and yet Lipfert only opened a side window.

Well for gosh sakes FriousMeow. I can see you read books right? I must at least have 20 on WWII aviation and 15 on pilots 2 allied the rest German. I'm sorry but compaired to German pilots Allied pilots are just plain boring imo. So why does this matter so much? No German pilot in his right mind is going to open his canopy like he's on the ground if he has to open it in the air. He can't see, he's too low to bail out so he has to make a forced landing etc etc. You call it "emmersion". For the nut jobs like me and I think there a quite a few around you're not putttering around with a sim from a store, you're up in a 109 in Russia in WWII. Understand now? Or do I need to come over to where you live and sit for a few hours and try to explain?

Edited May 6, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

Loft has already said he's not doing it.

 

He said he won't change his mind unless he sees a poll with over 1000 contributors where the majority are in favour.

 

Unfortunately it's time to move on.

Ok that's it then. Thanks for telling me Extreme_One                                    

Edited May 6, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[SYN_Haashashin]

As Extreme said, Devs allready asnwered to this poll. Time to close.