Why does the AI completely ignore the attacker before landing?

[FTC_Zero]

Play a lot of campaign mode with fighters. However, it is odd that the AI completely ignores the enemy  if being attacked during landing (including being in waiting loop). Like 1 or 2 enemy fighters fighters harass whole fighter squadrons without them breaking off from landing and defend.

 

At the same time the attackers seem to behave strange as well. Kinda passive and they don't really hit anything even tho the landing planes fly in a slow and perfectly relaxed manner. But my 2nd point just might be my imagination.

Edited May 5, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[40plus]

Because there is opportunity(ies) for improvement within the AI.

[FTC_Zero]

4 minutes ago, pfrances said:

Because there is opportunity(ies) for improvement within the AI.

Is it really that hard to fix that? Extremly trivial problem and it exist since i actually own that game (some month). Dunno if that issue always existed.

[40plus]

Unfortunately trivial and AI do not go together. 'Tis super difficult work.

 

The devs have improved AI significantly in the past years but there's only one dedicated AI dude on the team and it's bloody hard to do right. The scenario you've described is just one of the ways the AI needs polish.

[Jade_Monkey]

15 minutes ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

Is it really that hard to fix that? Extremly trivial problem and it exist since i actually own that game (some month). Dunno if that issue always existed.

 

Look at this guy, turns out he had the solution to everything "just fix it, it's easy". 

[FTC_Zero]

13 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

Look at this guy, turns out he had the solution to everything "just fix it, it's easy". 

Holy crap this, why is everybody that Incredible douchebaggy? A wait, I get another Incredible retarded reply for a feedback which I don't mean as offense. 

 

27 minutes ago, pfrances said:

Unfortunately trivial and AI do not go together. 'Tis super difficult work.

 

The devs have improved AI significantly in the past years but there's only one dedicated AI dude on the team and it's bloody hard to do right. The scenario you've described is just one of the ways the AI needs polish.

Sorry I don't mean any offense to the team/man  hard work, but thanks anyways. At least that confirms some issue in that regard

Edited May 5, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[vipe155]

4 minutes ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

Holy crap this, why is everybody that Incredible douchebaggy? A wait, I get another Incredible retarded reply for a feedback which I don't mean as offense

That's par for the course in sim communities....

 

In regards to the AI issue you mentioned, it is possible that sometime in the past few years an easy (enough) band-aid fix could have been applied, i.e. applying a condition in the AI subroutine to switch the AI plane back to "normal" flight conditions if it registered damage from gunfire.

[FTC_Zero]

12 minutes ago, vipe155 said:

That's par for the course in sim communities....

 

In regards to the AI issue you mentioned, it is possible that sometime in the past few years an easy (enough) band-aid fix could have been applied, i.e. applying a condition in the AI subroutine to switch the AI plane back to "normal" flight conditions if it registered damage from gunfire.

I also kinda imagine a script to just let the ai leave the landing routine and go to patrol routine. Not even sure if is really is an ai issue, just more a stance thingy? I just think AI behaves really nice if they fly normally. They don't spot you on the 6 right away but after being fired or spotted they react appropriately IMO.

Edited May 5, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[Gambit21]

AI take-off routine before reaching 200 meters and AI landing routine after receiving the "land" MCU command are hard-coded.

 

That said there is a way to break the AI landing routine and tell it to do something else, or to keep the AI from receiving the land command logic if enemy AI are in the area.

However this takes another layer of logic, a bit of clever "hand crafting" as it were and it's a lot to ask from a generated

mission at this juncture.  I don't even take the time to add that layer of logic in my own missions generally, but it's doable.

 

In other words not an AI limitation, but a mission design consideration.

[41Sqn_Skipper]

I have the Impression that it's better when you are CO of the squadron. You can also land first and quit the mission.

[jollyjack]

15 hours ago, 41Sqn_Banks said:

I have the Impression that it's better when you are CO of the squadron. You can also land first and quit the mission.

 

And thereby saving the others by the bell ...

[Ram399]

So long as you're the leader of the flight you can break the AI out of their landing pattern ritual by telling them to follow you or giving a patrol area command, but the moment you request clearance to land the role of leader gets passed down and the AI will focus on nothing else but landing.  This also applies if you issued a force RTB order using L-Alt+0.

[FTC_Zero]

11 hours ago, Ram399 said:

So long as you're the leader of the flight you can break the AI out of their landing pattern ritual by telling them to follow you or giving a patrol area command, but the moment you request clearance to land the role of leader gets passed down and the AI will focus on nothing else but landing.  This also applies if you issued a force RTB order using L-Alt+0.

Okay, that my own lead is given further after landing request I understand. But if that is not the case and I issue an RTB order, does it mean that I cannot cancel that anymore e.g. reissue patrol order etc.

 

Just making sure I don't misunderstand you ^^

 

In that case I try to get squadlead as much as possible, however I feels still very sorry for the other squadrons landing near the frontline.

 

I wonder if that is the case with the ultra old IL1946 or CoD

Edited May 7, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[=RS=Stix_09]

37 minutes ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

Okay, that my own lead is given further after landing request I understand. But if that is not the case and I issue an RTB order, does it mean that I cannot cancel that anymore e.g. reissue patrol order etc.

 

Just making sure I don't misunderstand you ^^

 

In that case I try to get squadlead as much as possible, however I feels still very sorry for the other squadrons landing near the frontline.

 

Yes once u issue a return to base order to the squad , you are no longer in command of the squad,. ie they will not listen to further orders u give.

Edited May 7, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[41Sqn_Skipper]

1 hour ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

I wonder if that is the case with the ultra old IL1946 or CoD

 

In Clod the AI didn't have that landing issues. They simply didn't take off at all if you are the leader (might have been fixed after 4 years or so). And usually half of the squad collides mid-air en route to target. The remaining were in zombi-mode (= flying straight and not doing any evasive action) not only in the circuit, but as soon they decided to RTB even when in they are still in the middle of a dogfight.

 

Oh and they simply didn't listen to any radio commands, so aborting an RTB command was not an issue.

 

Compared to Clod the AI is superb in Great Battles and the single player mode is absolutley enjoyable.

Edited May 7, 2020 by 41Sqn_Banks

[Lusekofte]

If you take a search on this site you will see that this topic pops up everytime a new member try career and find out. 
Main reason the rest of us do not bring it up is , we know the devs are painfully aware of this. They even hired a guy devoted to improve it. 
A good advice for all is use search before post. AI is just a eternal work in process

[FTC_Zero]

3 hours ago, 41Sqn_Banks said:

 

In Clod the AI didn't have that landing issues. They simply didn't take off at all if you are the leader (might have been fixed after 4 years or so). And usually half of the squad collides mid-air en route to target. The remaining were in zombi-mode (= flying straight and not doing any evasive action) not only in the circuit, but as soon they decided to RTB even when in they are still in the middle of a dogfight.

 

Oh and they simply didn't listen to any radio commands, so aborting an RTB command was not an issue.

 

Compared to Clod the AI is superb in Great Battles and the single player mode is absolutley enjoyable.

Wow, good that i never played Cliffs of Dover then. However i played quite some 1946 and before and there ai seems okay, however i didnt played that for while so i cant really compare.

41 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

If you take a search on this site you will see that this topic pops up everytime a new member try career and find out. 
Main reason the rest of us do not bring it up is , we know the devs are painfully aware of this. They even hired a guy devoted to improve it. 
A good advice for all is use search before post. AI is just a eternal work in process

Yes, but then you cant rise you comment counter to 10 000 like the other million "use search function you newbie" posters. 

Some players may read patch notes since birth like the bible. Love people thinking they represent devs or other people without knowing what they think. Hm, what is that word for this social phenomenon again?

Edited May 7, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[Lusekofte]

25 minutes ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

social phenomenon again?

I don't know I am not native English speaking, but your phenomenal wording is clearly impolite and hostile. 
You came in here not at all interested in any kind of labor, figuring out anything by yourself, I call this phenomenon lazy and pampered

[jeanba]

32 minutes ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

Wow, good that i never played Cliffs of Dover then. However i played quite some 1946 and before and there ai seems okay, however i didnt played that for while so i cant really compare.

 

The landing sequence in 1946 was hard coded too.

There are also a lot of troubles during formation takeoffs in 4.12 versions as the AI planes are doing aerobatics to get in formation

...

The AI seems a little better, but what makes the difference when flying with AI is the number of orders which are available and the fact that the AI does its best to follow them.

For instance, even at lowest rank, you can request for help and quite often.

Also, the level bombing sequence, when you lead a bomber squadron is more interesting

...

[FTC_Zero]

40 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I don't know I am not native English speaking, but your phenomenal wording is clearly impolite and hostile. 
You came in here not at all interested in any kind of labor, figuring out anything by yourself, I call this phenomenon lazy and pampered

Of course, you are right. Thank you see you, have a nice day..

 

"You came in here not at all interested" your assumption.

"phenomenal wording is clearly impolite and hostile" your assumtion again and not a fact, there are no emotional values attached to that word.

Pls dont misake a forum for personal communication rather than sharing information, thanks. If you think my post is pointless and yours and those who just stating insulting me arent better.

33 minutes ago, jeanba said:

The landing sequence in 1946 was hard coded too.

There are also a lot of troubles during formation takeoffs in 4.12 versions as the AI planes are doing aerobatics to get in formation

...

The AI seems a little better, but what makes the difference when flying with AI is the number of orders which are available and the fact that the AI does its best to follow them.

For instance, even at lowest rank, you can request for help and quite often.

Also, the level bombing sequence, when you lead a bomber squadron is more interesting

...

Ah okay, do you mean in 1946 or GB now? Funny air crashes can be seen in any version. I am just a single player guy, i just hope that get the love as well as the multiplayer part.


Side note for others.
To make it clear for those who just wanna  bash. I like il2 gb and i generally like the AI. Nothing is perfect, the landing seems just odd and out of that what i usually experience, which is very decent. If I give feedback or ask about an issue then, of course for god sake I focus on bad things and not the good ones. But probably some gets really emotional if i dont praise the sim first which they might not even own or develop and before asking for something I generally dont know yet.

Edited May 7, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[jeanba]

2 hours ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

 

Ah okay, do you mean in 1946 or GB now? Funny air crashes can be seen in any version. I am just a single player guy, i just hope that get the love as well as the multiplayer part.
 

"1946", though there may be some variants according to versions