Tempest engine?

[sammydee]

I was just watching the Tempest taxiing. Did the engine really sound like that? My lawnmower sounds more powerful. ?

[ShamrockOneFive]

There aren't very many good recordings of what the Sabre II engine sounded like. There are a few out there but I can't find one right at the moment.

 

It sort of sounds like that but as with all sounds in IL-2 it's a bit of an interpretation.

[Floppy_Sock]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I think there are no operational napier sabers right now. I know there's a team working to restore one, and have secured substantial complements necessary rebuild but still in progress. 

 

https://hawkertyphoon.com/project if you're interested. 

 

Edit: a second aircraft under restoration apparently in Canada - https://www.typhoonlegacy.com/

Edited May 2, 2020 by Floppy_Sock

[Madov]

You can find black and white film of Typhoon taxiing and taking off, it's the Napier Sabre I and the sound would have been very similar.

[Madov]

This identification aide memoire film has good sound on it and gives you an idea of the incredible quality of the engine sound -

 

 

[sammydee]

Nice video Madov. Thanks for posting. I've liked the Tempest since reading 'The Big Show' many years ago.

[AndyJWest]

2 hours ago, MADOV said:

This identification aide memoire film has good sound on it and gives you an idea of the incredible quality of the engine sound -

 

I'd be a little wary of using a film like that as evidence for how the Tempest actually sounded. The sound for the air-to-air shots cannot have been recorded at the time of filming (it would be drowned out by the sound of the aircraft it was being filmed from), and it is quite possible that the sound for the ground shots was added afterwards too. Adding stock sounds to silent film was pretty much standard practice for news and documentary-style filming at the time.

[JimTM]

Here is the sound of a Typhoon IB, which used the Sabre engine.

 

 

Here's another recording of a Typhoon ground attack.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by JimTM

[sammydee]

Great. Thanks JimTM.

[Trooper117]

The in game sabre engine sounds nothing like the period film engine.

Those videos have been around for ages. I was really hoping the team would manage to get something similar for the IL2 version.

Technically it may not have been possible of course.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

22 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

I'd be a little wary of using a film like that as evidence for how the Tempest actually sounded. The sound for the air-to-air shots cannot have been recorded at the time of filming (it would be drowned out by the sound of the aircraft it was being filmed from), and it is quite possible that the sound for the ground shots was added afterwards too. Adding stock sounds to silent film was pretty much standard practice for news and documentary-style filming at the time.

 

This! Most, if not all, wartime footage was shot on handheld cameras and would be silent. Both sounds and commentary were added in post.

[Madov]

We all know this, do we really have to restate the bleedin' obvious, but what is also clear is that the soundtracks that were added to silent film reel would contain the sounds of the subject covered in the film piece. Not recorded at the same time and not of the actual aircraft in this instance but of the same type. Generally the engine sounds within this sim/game are mediocre to okay and the Tempest is no exception. It gives the impression of something very powerful and throaty and is very loud and strident, at least on my system. If the sounds that we had in game were half as  good as the ones added to the film piece above we would be lucky indeed.

[Trooper117]

We know how things were done back then, we aren't stupid... listen to a Merlin engine added to a film from the 40's on a Spit or Hurri... it still sounds like a Merlin we all know today.

Does anyone think they would have put a make believe engine sound on a Tempest on a film they would have shown to pilots!

[Talisman]

Well, I for one think this one is the real thing and beautiful it is too:

 

 

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited May 3, 2020 by 56RAF_Talisman

[Jade_Monkey]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

The in game sabre engine sounds nothing like the period film engine.

Those videos have been around for ages. I was really hoping the team would manage to get something similar for the IL2 version.

Technically it may not have been possible of course.

 

Unfortunately that is the case for most planes in BOX. I know it's very complex to make all sounds work as expected especially once you are in external view and now have to take into account the angle, distance and many more factors. I listened to the raw audio of the game and the samples are really good. I think it's the "magic" of fmod once you add tweaks to the sound that makes it sound so muddled.

 

 

I have hope that the griffon for the mkXIV will be of higher quality than the IX.

 

[Stoopy]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:37 PM, sammydee said:

I was just watching the Tempest taxiing. Did the engine really sound like that? My lawnmower sounds more powerful. ?

 

I was on Combat Box last night and pulled my Jug onto the active to take off, and there was a group of 3 Tempests ahead of me. When they started their takeoff run together, I thought a go-kart race had started up somewhere nearby.  

 

I spent the rest of the flight enjoying the big boss beat of the P&W R2800 purifying my soul. 

 

[RedKestrel]

23 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

Does anyone think they would have put a make believe engine sound on a Tempest on a film they would have shown to pilots!

I believe they would, yep. A lot cheaper to just use an engine sample sound you have to hand than a legit recording. I mean, there was a war on. 

The pilots would have had a good laugh about it, and made fun of the stupid government training videos. A tradition that continues to this day. 

[Diggun]

Just now, RedKestrel said:

I believe they would, yep

you hear an awful lot of the same engine 'samples' - really snippits of audio from elsewhere - in wartime footage. Those cameras don't have mics on, there's no audio embedded in the film, its far, far simpler, easier, and cheaper to use library audio for the most part.

[Art-J]

I'd say it's a bit like with sound of motorcycle engines (or car ones for that matter). Japanese high RPM screaming lawnmowers vs low RPM, bass-rumbling V-twins. In our case tiny cylinder Sabre at takeoff RPM of 3850 (up to 4000 WEP)  will never sound as meaty as lumpy R2800 with takeoff RPM of 2700, despite being more powerful engine.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Art-J

[RedKestrel]

35 minutes ago, Diggun said:

you hear an awful lot of the same engine 'samples' - really snippits of audio from elsewhere - in wartime footage. Those cameras don't have mics on, there's no audio embedded in the film, its far, far simpler, easier, and cheaper to use library audio for the most part.

Kinda like the 'bear roar' samples that are pasted in for documentaries, when the bears are fighting, when in reality they're popping their jaws or grumbling but mostly silent. Or the iconic 'Eagle Scream' that is really a red-tailed hawk. Bald eagles sound like jumped up seagulls.

[Stoopy]

33 minutes ago, Art-J said:

I'd say it's a bit like with sound of motorcycle engines (or car ones for that matter). Japanese high RPM screaming lawnmowers vs low RPM, bass-rumbling V-twins. In our case tiny cylinder Sabre at takeoff RPM of 3850 (up to 4000 WEP)  will never sound as meaty as lumpy R2800 with takeoff RPM of 2700, despite being more powerful engine.

 

To continue the excellent analogy, the Merlin would be a Ducati with a Temignoni exhaust  - absolute sex!!

 

 

[blockheadgreen_]

This is probably a bit late, but the engine recording in that Tempest training film most certainly is a genuine Sabre recording. The idling sound at the start of the film is identical to (and probably taken from) this genuine Tempest recording that features in that 'Typhoon' video. The key feature is the unique 'growly' exhaust note heard after it has flown by the recording equipment - it's identical in both. 

 

I'd hazard a guess that the recording used in the film was made in the same manner if not on the same day as the other one. 

 

Edit: Another point to make is that, aside from a few early war newsreels, any wartime film/reel made featuring Spitfires for example clearly use a Merlin recording, and I have no qualms stating that they'd probably do the same with any Sabre engined planes:

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Lythronax

[WM_KMS]

That's a Sabre engine on display in JimTMs upper video, start it up!!