Warthunder will turn into a great sim over time?

[Godofskys]

Just wondering how many of you beleive that warthunder after a couple years of development. Will turn into a great sim.

 

Right now. Flight models are still being worked on (quite a few planes are done though). And damage models is improving every update.

 

Most of the devs seem like they are sim enthusiasts as well.

 

World War Mode (Planes,tanks,ships all in one map) Will be coming out this year where it will probably sport map sizes of 300-160km squared at biggest. Has Many many plane and more to come.

 

Most pople are assuming World war mode will pretty much be like a sandbox. (Like cliffs of dover). Except we have alot more planes. And alot more maps.

 

I beleive as time goes on. War thunder could turn into the best sim on the market. As they get money on a monthly basis and can further expand the game for many many years to come.

 

The reason im posting this is because many has thrown war thunder off to the side as being pure arcade stuff.

 

But keep in mind Gaijin is focusing on realism.

[Sim]

For me, it's not just about the flight models. I just don't see them remodeling the cockpits for example (to match the upcoming BoS level). Or making engines sound realistically instead of generic engine sounds. Don't get me wrong, I am all for them trying to get more realism into War Thunder. Any kind of competition - is a good thing.

 

Tried the game in the beta couple of month before. I really like couple of things about War Thunder - it's the details of their maps (especially populated areas) and the fact the pilot is modeled within cockpit view.

[Bearcat]

It is not bad now.. it just is not for me. The FMs, pits DMs etc are different from what I am used to but they are not horrible by any means .. I think there will be a place for WT for a long time just as there was a place for FA,AH,WB,CFS,IL2,BoB and EAW .. at one time all of them were fairly active at the same time.. IL2 is just the only one still growing..

[76SQN-FatherTed]

If I've learnt nothing else from these forums, I've learnt that some of us are fiercely and irrationally devoted to one sim or another.  Debating which one is the "best" is not going to result in a measured discussion.

 

I think it highly likely that War Thunder will be played by more people than other sims, and those people may think it the best, but whether that makes it the best, who knows?  As it is geared towards multiplayer, I imagine that it'll never be "sim" enough for some people, simply because multiplayer doesn't work very well as a game in historically accurate sims.  For all sorts of reasons, historical match-ups are often a mis-match.  This may be tolerated, even enjoyed, by hard-core simmers, but the wider gaming community want a level playing field.  This means that the differences between the planes will be smoothed out, or you'll be allowed a-historical match-ups.  If this can't happen then a lot of people will get frustrated and stop playing

 

I guess it'll be like World of Tanks.  I'm sure not all the millions who play that need it to be a proper sim - they just enjoy playing it, and that's all that counts in the end

[AX2]

As Red Tails movie, was widely criticized.. But many young boys come to the WWII planes games, thanks to the movie !

I think the only good thing about war thunder.

Many players enter to the market of " air combat games " , easy Playing Sims ..

Probably in the future they look for a hardcore Sim, if the they like WWII planes enough.

And we'll have more people online in BoS. 

 

Edited April 19, 2013 by Mustang

[Godofskys]

 Or making engines sound realistically instead of generic engine sounds.

 

But they use 100% real engine sounds actually from the planes?

 

But i agree. Im not satisfied with the level of realism in Warthunder. But the community that plays the realistic side of Warthunder want things to be harder and more realistic.

 

Im sure ill be able to look back years from now and admire how far war thunder has gone.

[MACADEMIC]

I really liked some of the earlier Gaijin titles, Birds of Prey, Wings of Prey and Apache. These titles started me in becoming interested in flight simulations inspite of some shortcomings here and there - the flying experience they produced felt very authentic and was absolutely fascinating, the graphics sublime. I had very high hopes in what they could come up with next, but unfortunately their follow up titles Birds of Steel and War Thunder failed to captivate me. Can't exactly put my finger on it, the graphics aren't as convincing, too cartoonish, somehow the magic's gone. Could live with that but not with the current MMO style gameplay that doesn't allow you to fly what you want with who you want and as you want. So at the moment it's not for me.

 

But who knows, perhaps Gaijin will offer something more to my liking again one day. In the meantime, I have my hopes in what the new IL-2 Sturmovik team and also DCS will come up with in the WWII genre.

 

MAC

[Godofskys]

Try it out again when they release world war mode this year. They said its going to be HEAVILY teamwork based. However it seems the biggest maps sizes of 164 x 164km at the moment (those maps arent used ingame yet though). So im hoping they make it bigger for world war mode.

 

Im also hoping for World war mode we can make our own servers with our own rules (limiting aircraft to a certian time period). Im sure they realise unless they do that they wont really captivate the simmer community.

 

They do see il2:bos and any other flight game as a competitor and im sure they are working hard to make this into a game they will get some of the il2 community as well. (You can tell because they are always triyng to make the FM/DM as realistic as possible. Though some flight models are still broken...You know how beta is).

[MACADEMIC]

They have already stated their intention to base their 'World War' gameplay on what they call 'Historical Battles' mode: all views are allowed, icons, mouse control and aiming, and all aircraft regardless of time period/technological state (e.g. jets against biplanes).

 

If that's so, I don't think it will make the game any more interesting to me. But we'll see.

 

MAC

[Godofskys]

Nope, a while ago after that statement they changed it so that there will apparently be world war for all modes. ( i cant beleive arcade will be one of them, but hey thats what they said)

[migmadmarine]

I quite enjoy it, there is a lot that annoys me about it, (having 1938 aircraft in the same matches as F-86's, I hope they will narrow down the dates for matches) but it can be quite fun. 

[MACADEMIC]

Nope, a while ago after that statement they changed it so that there will apparently be world war for all modes. ( i cant beleive arcade will be one of them, but hey thats what they said)

 

Okay, thanks for that info. I'll keep my eye on it.

 

MAC

[FlatSpinMan]

If I was 12 or so, this would be exactly what I'd want. Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound condescending, but I just mean that it has action, nice graphics, lots of aids. But now I'm practically 15&3/4 so I want more out of an air combat game.

[Godofskys]

If I was 12 or so, this would be exactly what I'd want. Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound condescending, but I just mean that it has action, nice graphics, lots of aids. But now I'm practically 15&3/4 so I want more out of an air combat game.

 

And you will get more

 

Game isnt even close to be finished. It will take a couple more years to be 100% done. Right now they say they are just about 20% done.

 

One thing i do like about War thunder is its ability to handle a ton of ground units. Hundreds.

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

Warthunder is an arcade game, is not a simulator. I like the graphic quality of sceneries and map, but FM, DM, etc, are very different from reality.

 

A real-accurate simulator need gamers with aircraft culture for playing it, and piloting experience, ..that?

[startrekmike]

I gave War thunder a shot on two separate occasions, I went into the first one with a open mind, I had no idea what to expect and I was willing to give it a chance, the second run at it was more about seeing if things have improved than anything, I knew what I did not like about it and I was sad to see that many of those problems showed no indication of changing any time in the future.

 

   Anyway, here is kinda a overview of my thoughts on it.

 

  1.) I put graphics first because it is the quickest to cover, while i like the models and the quality of the textures, I found everything to be a bit too "cinema style" in a way, I messed with the color filters but I still could not get something that I felt was terribly realistic looking. Other than that, the cockpits were nice and the landscape looked good but that good looking earth comes at a high price as the maps are very small and feel very confined.

 

  2.) Flight model, I can't attack it too much on this, it is still being worked on but it seems that they let their reach exceed their grasp on this one, I can't say that I believe they will ever have anything that approaches the kind of realism that a true, dedicated flight sim can give you, they are going to model a ton of aircraft and some are so radically different that I have a hard time believing that they are not just using a baseline flight model that changes only slightly from aircraft to aircraft  (this will make jets difficult to model properly). overall, I don't think it will ever be at a point where a hard-core simulation fan will be able to actually call it anything close to a sim (or even just "authentic" as the dev's are fond of saying).

 

  3.) Damage model, this one sounds nice and looks nice but beyond that, it is really unfinished, I don't honestly expect much detail from this but at least it kinda sounds neat when rounds are hitting the metal skin of your aircraft.

 

  4.) mission realism, I don't think you can even come close to a authentic mission in the F2P/MMO structure, the missions are bland and often feel like nothing more than a means for players to make kill after kill in a effort to grind their way to a slightly better plane, this means that teamwork is often a afterthought at best and it just makes the whole thing feel repetitive, pointless and dull. The three modes help slightly as one can avoid most of the MMO dominant strategy grind squad by staying out of "arcade" but historical battles is not much better, it still has mostly the same kind of crowd and while it limits the nationality of the aircraft, it still allows late war birds to face off against early war and that does not often make any sense at all.

 

   The final realism mode is "full real", the lack of solid flight models hurts this mode and again, while it feels slight more authentic, it is still suffering from the same flaws that are inherent in a F2P/MMO type game, everyone is after XP and lions, that is it, missions are going to take a back seat to ones personal success (i.e. profitability), those that stick with "full real" are often players from other flight sims trying to find a new place to hang their flight helmet, I don't think that crowd is really going to stick around for the long run.

 

Overall, I don't think I will be coming back to this one, there are too many small things that one simply can't avoid and they add up fast to make the whole grind to get the aircraft you want not really worth it at all. I mean, why would I sign up for a game, and either a.) Grind my way to the planes I want only to find that I need to keep playing enough to actually be able to afford to keep them in a the air with repair costs or b.) pay a sum of money for "premium" access where one can actually play the game the way they want to play it, there is still a grind but it is greatly reduced.

 

  That is the trick here, while in IL-2 1946 you can just start it up, set up a mission and go with what ever plane you like, War thunder makes you work (yes, work) for the planes you want, you have to grind your way to them and then you only get to fly them as much as your EXP and lions profit margin allows, after you reach a point where you cannot afford to repair the plane you like, you are stuck with ones you don't as a means to grind some more until you can either afford to repair it instantly or you just stick it out until it is done repairing itself for free (sometimes a long process, longer than you would tihnk.)

 

  This means that you never really feel like you are playing because you want to, on your own terms, it allows you to do your own thing but only to a point and then, when you reach that point, it takes all your toys away and asks for you to insert more coins to continue (either in terms of time or money).

 

  The final problem that War thunder faces is the players themselves, Gaijin just has not given "arcade" players any reason to move up to other modes and it really needs to if it wants to be the "gateway to sims" that we all want it to be for many players. I mean, lets be honest here, many who play War thunder are playing it because it is no different than the other F2P/MMO's that they play, it even lets them use mouse control so they don't really need to learn anything new, this won't encourage them to try out other sims, it just lets them have a 1st person shooter experience with airplanes instead of soldiers.

 

  I have a few friends that started playing ROF with my awhile back, they all bought sticks and were having a good time learning and exploring the sim, some even bought other sims like IL-2 CloD or DCS A-10C, all was going well, then, War thunder came out and offered them a easy way out, they took it and now, when I ask if they want to join me for a A-10 mission or a ROF session, they simply say "I can't be bothered to learn that kind of thing when I can just play War thunder".

 

  This kind of thing is heartbreaking to hear and it shows that War thunder is not going to bring many players into the fold who might otherwise have not.

 

  War thunder offers sim players nothing that IL-2 1946 or IL-2 CloD cannot and both the IL-2 titles (soon to be three) do it better and cheaper.

[Godofskys]

 but FM, DM, etc, are very different from reality.

 

It may be different, but in no way is it "very" different from reality. Unless your playing arcade of course.

 

Indeed the flight models are not the best for many aircraft right now and only a handful are completely done.

 

And you wont feel cramped in a map before the end of this year, trust me. Come back after a while a try it out.

 

The grind wont go away unfortunatley. But after you get the planes you want. The grind kinda stops. Now i just play and dont worry about repairs that much.

 

Regardless this game wont be great for the die hard simmers (though i am one). But it will be great for people who just want to experience what its like to go into more realistic settings, without it being TOO realistic. Well..not yet atleast. The devs will make it more realistic guranteed. We all want it that way and they are listening. Next up. Removing all HUDS and virtual insturments and making manual engine control madatory...though not 100% confirmed the developers are discussing it. Were taking baby steps but were getting there one update at a time.)

 

The devs see il2:bos as a competitors Im sure they want to draw in as much of the simmers into the game as possible before they release. And im sure they will make changes to the game to do so. WT has has about 7 months to turn Ful lreal battles actually feel full real. Lets see if they can do it.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Godofskys

[startrekmike]

As I said above, you can have great flight models, fantastic damage modeling and amazing cockpits but if you cram it all in a F2P MMO than it simply cannot be as realistic as a normal simulator.

 

  The IL-2 series, ROF and DCS World work as great sims because they allow you to have missions that are both historical and realistic, this is something you simply cannot get when you have players grinding for EXP and lions, it does not matter what game mode it is in, it is still just a MMO with a flight sim coat of paint.

 

  Not saying it is not good for beginners and such, I just don't think it can really compete in the the actual flight sim market because it places too many artificial barriers between the user and the content they want, even if you do earn the planes you want, you still need to keep them in the air with repair costs and such, this is not the kind of a thing that works in the flight sim market, it might bring players into the fold but I don't think hard-core flight simmers are going to line up for the F2P/MMO experience that War thunder offers.

 

  BoS would be wise to try and pull players away from War thunder when it comes out, make sure that players understand that they are getting more content (and all up front) for less money overall and it will not require them to grind for the content either.

[Godofskys]

As I said above, you can have great flight models, fantastic damage modeling and amazing cockpits but if you cram it all in a F2P MMO than it simply cannot be as realistic as a normal simulator.

 

  The IL-2 series, ROF and DCS World work as great sims because they allow you to have missions that are both historical and realistic, this is something you simply cannot get when you have players grinding for EXP and lions, it does not matter what game mode it is in, it is still just a MMO with a flight sim coat of paint.

 

  Not saying it is not good for beginners and such, I just don't think it can really compete in the the actual flight sim market because it places too many artificial barriers between the user and the content they want, even if you do earn the planes you want, you still need to keep them in the air with repair costs and such, this is not the kind of a thing that works in the flight sim market, it might bring players into the fold but I don't think hard-core flight simmers are going to line up for the F2P/MMO experience that War thunder offers.

 

  BoS would be wise to try and pull players away from War thunder when it comes out, make sure that players understand that they are getting more content (and all up front) for less money overall and it will not require them to grind for the content either.

 

Ah i see what youre saying. Youre pretty much right. It probably wont have much effect on people who play missions etc. But i think it will have a different effect on people who love to play online.

 

 

But Warthunder will probaby end up having a siimilar marketing scheme like BoS in the future (Pay real money for any plane you want so you dont have to grind just to get one plane you want).

 

But yeah, war thunder will be great for begginers. Its the reason why im pumped about BoS as well. It might not drag in really hardcore simmers that want perfect complex engine managment that mimics real lifes. But it will definatley drag in casual simmers. Warthunders engine is apparently very incredible. Wont be surprised if some hardcore simmers would want to kick it in war thunder for an hour or two just to change things up sometimes (different planes, different maps, etc).

 

P.S Repair costs are only an real draw back on certian planes at the moment (broken economy). Other wise, get one kill before you die and no problem.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Godofskys

[kestrel79]

I love Warthunder. I only play it in "full real" mode, it's more of a sim. The graphics are amazing. It looks great on older systems too. Very high fps. I don't have a problem with flying earlier planes to start out with, I was always a crap plane pilot in IL2 anyways

 

It's just something light and fun I can hop in and play on weeknights with my brother who isn't into hardcore flightsims like me. He tried CloD, DCS, too much work for him. So we can fly WT together at night for an hour or two and have some fun.

 

I honestly think it gets more of a bad rap from the majority who play in arcade mode, which is crap. Just skip it if you're into sims. Go straight to Full Real Battles and have some fun.

[Feathered_IV]

It's not for me unfortunately. I can overlook shortcomings of FM's etc if the gameplay and atmosphere is earnest and believable. However War Thunder is such a mish mash of aircraft types, eras, tokens, credits and golden eagles I can not get past the ka'ching of Gaijins cash register long enough to enjoy a minute of it. I like many of the maps, and appreciate them representing some of the rarer aircraft types, but find the core game experience to be, I don't know. Rather artless.

[gavagai]

I tried it and hated it.  The FFB feel was very shallow, and it felt like I was swept along in a fast moving river current without the opportunity to just fly around.

Edited May 1, 2013 by gavagai

[Godofskys]

I tried it and hated it.  The FFB feel was very shallow, and it felt like I was swept along in a fast moving river current without the opportunity to just fly around.

 

Yes yes, wait for World War mode. In terms of getting into the game it will probably be like Clod. Select airfeild any time you want, spawn, fly to the front lines (there will be tanks fighting on the ground and where most players will want to go to provide air cover for them) or patrol your own airspace and protect your strategic infrastructure (radar, factories, trains, supply convoys etc).

 

You will never get the advance engine management. But you will need to manage the most important things. Despite the FM no tbeing the greatest. The thing about War thunder is that there are teams ALWAYS working on it. A day will com ewhere every single aircraft has a great FM and DM.

 

One thing we FRB players dont like. Is how people can fly what ever plane they want regardless of the time of the battle. We dont like it. It ruins the immersion. So sure enough over time, that will change.

 

Right now FRB feels like a death match. Thats now how its going to be for long.

 

Come back later this year. I assure you. Things wil lbe different.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Godofskys

[Bearcat]

It's not for me unfortunately. I can overlook shortcomings of FM's etc if the gameplay and atmosphere is earnest and believable. However War Thunder is such a mish mash of aircraft types, eras, tokens, credits and golden eagles I can not get past the ka'ching of Gaijins cash register long enough to enjoy a minute of it. I like many of the maps, and appreciate them representing some of the rarer aircraft types, but find the core game experience to be, I don't know. Rather artless.

That s my take as well.. AFAIC if BoS has the business model of RoF with the flexibility that is a mixture of CoD, IL2 and some things they both are lacking I'll be a happy camper.. as long as that other Mario Brothers style stuff is not there..

[MACADEMIC]

All well and good about the ambitous damage modeling, but the visual damage modeling is still just one variation of confettishower after the other. Needs work. Liked that much more in Wings of Prey where I found it beautifully done (while perhaps not very varied).

 

MAC

 

P.S.: thanks for the update!

Edited May 29, 2013 by MACADEMIC

[Jason_Williams]

Excessive advertising of other products is a no no.

 

Jason

[89-]

Warthunder just gets waaaaay too many things wrong, or badly done. The fonts, the icons, the core MMO rubbish with XP and grinding, the generic looking DM, the completely unnaatural looking fire and explosions, the FM that is poor from the perspective of aerdynamics (stall behaviour , etc) and also from planes char-s (SB-2 successfully used as fighter plane), the poor single player... etc etc etc

 

Coming into it as your first "airplane dogfight game"- I guess it's not too bad. For 12 year olds

 

But getting into it after LOVING IL2/ROF/LockOn - its a jarring experience on just about all levels (yes, even its modern, yet -for a large part- tasteless  graphics)

Edited May 29, 2013 by 89-

[89-]

 

 

But keep in mind Gaijin is focusing on realism.

 

Like fun they are!!:D

 

Full realism settings:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2013 by 89-

[Godofskys]

he FM that is poor from the perspective of aerdynamics (stall behaviour , etc) and also from planes char-s (SB-2 successfully used as fighter plane), the poor single player... etc etc etc

 

Yeah, the stall behavior on many aircraft are totally messed. While it works fine on others. The problem is. They are CONSTANTLY changing the CORE flight characteristics

 

of the game. Which in return mess up existing FMs. (SB-2 for example)

 

They are now fixing this with a MASSIVE FM fix for over 130 planes (isnt that...like pretty much all the planes?) coming next patch to fix the damage done.

 

Dont under estimate War thunders engine on the complexity of FMs thats for sure. Sure some planes may be broken now. But FMs require 230 different paremeters to be punched in to make the plane fly like it should. When ever the Core of the FM changes for the game engine. These parameters sometimes get messed up. Therefore need fixing. No doubt in the future more planes will become broken again after more updates to more advanced core FMs. But so be it.

 

P.S All the videos you show are just showing broken planes. Well no duh. Theyre BROKEN.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Godofskys

[89-]

Well, once the FMs/DMs/ Force Feedback are fixed we'll have something to discuss then.

 

At the moment we can only go on their promises, which sound similar to what the same devs said during Wings of Prey beta (that lasted only 3 months, WT is in beta for year and a half now?) - "we will do everything if project is successful" and other such nebulous statements... 

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

game mechanics is /"%#?

[Trooper117]

It's just a 'fun' game, full stop.. If you are looking for anything approaching historical accuracy you will be sorely disappointed...

looks good, you can quickly be into some action, but that's it.

It's airquake, a shoot em up, and if I want to muck around in that kind of arena it's fine for 20 mins or so... after that I'm  usually out of it.

 

As Klunk said, the economy is absolutely ridiculous and farcical. How on earth do I want to pay to get my aircraft to be serviced and pay again to 'train' my crew and mechanics, and pay again to get a better serviced engine so that it flys properly. Lunacy! 

[kestrel79]

The BB-1 is even more like a fighter than the SB-2

 

Love that thing. Can carry lots of bombs, 4 cannon, rear gunner, handles like an LA-5 and it's like a lvl 3 plane and cheap to repair.

[Bearcat]

As I said above, you can have great flight models, fantastic damage modeling and amazing cockpits but if you cram it all in a F2P MMO than it simply cannot be as realistic as a normal simulator.

 

  The IL-2 series, ROF and DCS World work as great sims because they allow you to have missions that are both historical and realistic, this is something you simply cannot get when you have players grinding for EXP and lions, it does not matter what game mode it is in, it is still just a MMO with a flight sim coat of paint.

 

  Not saying it is not good for beginners and such, I just don't think it can really compete in the the actual flight sim market because it places too many artificial barriers between the user and the content they want, even if you do earn the planes you want, you still need to keep them in the air with repair costs and such, this is not the kind of a thing that works in the flight sim market, it might bring players into the fold but I don't think hard-core flight simmers are going to line up for the F2P/MMO experience that War thunder offers.

 

  BoS would be wise to try and pull players away from War thunder when it comes out, make sure that players understand that they are getting more content (and all up front) for less money overall and it will not require them to grind for the content either.

I agree.. and bear in mind that WT was originally World of Planes .. and if I am not mistaken was supposed to be a sequel to Wings of Prey which came out around 09 or 10 I think..

 

With over 3 million players it certainly has found a place in the scheme of things but I think that is more because the competition is not really there yet.. BoS and possibly this new thing from RRG/DCS will be the first real competition it will have since IL2 is over a decade old.. but IMO it still is a competitor to just about everything else out there.

 

I like the progress we have seen since this all started.. I mean the progress on BoS... not WT..

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

and people flying with the mouse and using mouse aim for WOT! Arcade game in my humble opinion as I play WOT and grind for rank. I didn't buy anything in there just ranked up. Takes ages to get anything. lol

[Bearcat]

Not for me.. and since WoP and all the add ons which I bought.. Gaijin gets $0 from me.. and the same amount of my time..

[II./JG27_Rich]

I tried it and thought it was fine but that's it "fine". I'm an IL-2 man until it's no longer around or I'm no longer around.

[saf]

I would say startrekmike in his two posts sums it up the way I feel about WT.  No reason to spend time on it.

 

[WklinkTomCofield]

I kinda hope it remains sim lite for the most part.  If it does, and it gets people into the genre then it will be a good thing all around.

 

I wonder how many people have looked at serious racing sims after playing games like Need for Speed?  I know I got into simming starting with US Navy Fighters, not exactly a 'hard core' simulation.  I am sure that there are many fliers that flew some of Novalogic's early and 'dumbed down' jet simulators.  I know I did. 

 

I am sure that there are some people that will gravitate toward more 'realistic' simulations after playing these kinds of games. 

[Bearcat]

I agree.. If it becomes like a gateway drug ..