P-51 Landing Tips (preventing nose overs, etc.)

[humdinger]

Hi all, brand new to this sim and getting into it with the recent sales lately.  What are some "newbie" tips for successfully landing the P-51 without nose overs, etc.  Thanks in advance!

[JimTM]

Once you touch down, keep the stick all the way back. This locks the tail wheel to 6 degrees of travel to either side (if I remember correctly). Don't jam on the brakes; nice and easy does it.

[Atomic_Spaniel]

Have a look at Requiem's wonderful instructional videos. Everything you need is there, from basic operations and landing tips through to advanced combat manoeuvres.

 

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheAirCombatTutorialLibrary?gvnc=1

 

 

[Bremspropeller]

Don't ride the brakes. Stab them once and quickly release them again. Better just slow down in idle and letting her roll. That's the realistic way of doing it.

 

I haven't managed to satisfactorily land a Mustang without bouncing across half the airfield yet. My landings tend to cover half the week - meaning three bounces are normal.

Kind of annoys me, but I haven't made any effort to figure things out yet...

[Hot_Rod]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

I haven't managed to satisfactorily land a Mustang without bouncing across half the airfield yet. My landings tend to cover half the week - meaning three bounces are normal.

Kind of annoys me, but I haven't made any effort to figure things out yet...

Bremspropeller - it sounds to me like your touchdown speed is a bit too high.  I would get the same thing when I first tried the P-51 (the P-38 also), but when I held the touchdown back until my airspeed was 90 mph, the bounces were gone!

 

Hope this helps you out.

 

 

Rod

[spitfirejoe]

The key for a good Landing is ALWAYS a stabilized approach.

 

Stabilized approach means:

1. correct Landing configuration ( Gear down and full flaps )

2. Correct Approach Speed, important NO Overspeed ( 130 Mph is good for a P-51 )

3. Correct Descent rate...……….perfectly is a stable 3 Degrees Glide Path

4. perfectly alligned with the runway track on final approach

 

The P-51 is very easy to land compared to some others, important is the correct Speed during Flare. Once you reach the runway at a Speed of about 120-130 you cut the throttle to full idle and increase Elevator to let it float and bleed Speed off, flaring just above the runway and when it gets below 100 it will do a smooth 3 Point Landing, Move the stick to the full back postition and HOLD it there UNTILL FULL STOP. Keep the Aircraft on the centerline of the runway by using the rudder pedals. Brake only when at lower speed, brake in intervals and not permanent. The P-51 can move the tail wheel for a few Degrees together with the rudder while using rudder pedals and holding the stick FULL BACKWARDS, once you move the stick forward ( more than neutral ) you unlock the tailwheel for tight turns for taxi and parking.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by spitfirejoe

[BlitzPig_EL]

Most people, myself included, simply make our final approaches far too fast.  In the Mustang, this is exacerbated by the very slippery aero of the thing.  It does not lose speed quickly.  I use a longer approach with the Pony and start dropping flaps earlier, and in increments as speed allows.  I like to come "over the fence" under 100mph and touch down around 95mph. Works every time.

 

This applied to the other fighters in the sim has made all my landings much better.  Certainly, different aircraft will require adjustments to the speed on final, but in general, us sim pilots come in in too much of a hurry.

[216th_Jordan]

10 hours ago, Hot_Rod said:

Bremspropeller - it sounds to me like your touchdown speed is a bit too high.  I would get the same thing when I first tried the P-51 (the P-38 also), but when I held the touchdown back until my airspeed was 90 mph, the bounces were gone!

 

Hope this helps you out.

 

 

Rod

 

Some taildraggers suffer from this more than others but the main cause really is the wheels infront of the CoG. So on touchdown without 3-point your front wheels hitting the ground first will induce a rotation around CoG and increase AoA and therefore lift, pushing you up again.

 

Probably known, but just wanted to state it again for anyone who is not familiar.

 

Btw: Thats why tricycle landing-gear planes land much more nicely, they push themselves to the ground.

Edited April 26, 2020 by 216th_Jordan

[spitfirejoe]

12 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Some taildraggers suffer from this more than others but the main cause really is the wheels infront of the CoG. So on touchdown without 3-point your front wheels hitting the ground first will induce a rotation around CoG and increase AoA and therefore lift, pushing you up again.

 

Probably known, but just wanted to state it again for anyone who is not familiar.

 

Btw: Thats why tricycle landing-gear planes land much more nicely, they push themselves to the ground.

 

Yes that is correct and that´s why is the perfect touchdown speed the secret not to bounce and lift off again. Touchdown with full elevator at 95 mph is perfect, as stated here by many others. If you Approach with around 120-130 mph it is also important to cut the throttle of the P-51 fully more early than with other planes. Cut the thottle and once at the runway threshold start the brake and do flare by holding the P-51 low above the runway, bleeding off the speed untill below 100 mph, if you are not too high above the runway it will settle down without bouncing.

Edited April 26, 2020 by spitfirejoe

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I kind of "faked in" my own landing trim settings because I don't know the real ones but, it seems trimming a bit tail heavy helps me at least. 

I'm sure somebody knows the correct trim settings or guidelines to follow.  Maybe they can post them here.  

[spitfirejoe]

the original Manual for the P-51D says about trim settings: 

 

for TAKE OFF ( with FULL tanks / NO external tanks ) :

 

- Aileron Trim 0 degrees

- Rudder Trim 5 degrees to the right

- Elevator 2 Degrees NOSE HEAVY ( WITH full Drop Tanks 4 degrees NOSE HEAVY )

 

for Landing:

 

there is no exact trim Setting stated in the Manual, there is only a note: " When the landing gear comes down, the airplane gets quite nose heavy. However, you can easily adjust the trim tabs to take care of this."

 

 

 

 

[Heckpupper]

#1 Rule of landing - if you ever bounce, it means you're too fast. I know others already pointed that out, but here's why:

 

The reason why a bounce ever happens, is because you're aircraft has enough speed to generate enough lift to get you back in the air. Bounce is a stupid name for it, because it suggests that it's the suspension bouncing and throwing you back in the air - it's not. "Involuntary take-off" is a better name for it - you're aircraft has enough speed to take off, and you're pulling back on the stick during the flare, so it just takes off again. Simple as that. 

 

In order to prevent that, you need to touch the ground at a speed below which your aircraft can no longer maintain flight - otherwise known as the stall speed. Landing a taildragger equals to getting it above the runway and then stalling it into the ground, at a controlled angle and altitude where it's safe to do so. Find out what the stall speed is and add 20% to it to figure out your approach speed (unless listed in the manual), then once a few feet off the ground reduce the throttle (I say never to idle, but some would disagree), and wait until the aircraft stalls just a few feet from the ground. You won't risk a bounce because it's physically impossible for the aircraft to get back up at this speed anymore. 

 

Thanks for coming to my TedTalk

[humdinger]

All, thank you for taking time out to answer my post and provide such helpful advice - much appreciated!  I'll keep at it with some free time over the weekends and just like in real life will need to practice, practice, practice!  

[Blackhawk_FR]

On 4/30/2020 at 12:46 PM, spitfirejoe said:

- Elevator 2 Degrees NOSE HEAVY ( WITH full Drop Tanks 4 degrees NOSE HEAVY )

 

Elevator trims in that game looks very weird sometimes. 

For the Mustang I need at least 6-8° nose up trim to have a stable pitch after take off. 

At landing, nose it still a bit heavy (nose will go down if I don't hold the stick) with FULL up trim.