No testing right now.

[Requiem]

Mission to test on: Kuban Tests.zip

 

Hi everyone, do not do testing at the moment.

 

This is a big post so I apologise for its length...but I'm making it to see if I anyone is willing to help gather data for me. For some background, I created a spreadsheet a couple of years ago that generates what are called "Energy Maneuverability" diagrams and it sat on the back burner recently so I didn't do much with it. With some more time on my hands recently I dusted it off and refined it to the point where I was able to revise a video to include this information. The first 8mins are relevant to what I'm talking about in this post (video is in the spoiler to save room).

Spoiler

 

So what I would like to do is be able to provide the community some useful data on every airplane in Il-2 (I haven't have made all the adjustments for DCS yet), but I need your help to do it as this task is impossible for me to do by myself. I will attach a mission in this post with no wind, no turbulence, standard temperature and pressure for you to use so all the testing is done under the same conditions. It's on the Kuban spring map so you'll need to own Kuban at least...I'm assuming most people interested in testing this would own Kuban already. Even if I made the temperature/pressure the same on other maps I don't know if the test results would really be the same.

 

So if you would like to test an airplane:

1. Choose an airplane you want to test and post which one you will do

2. Download the mission and open it in the editor

3. Adjust airplane and altitude as desired. Altitudes for testing need to be sea level, 3000m, 6000m, 9000m

4. Open the mission in game and consider what configuration you'll test in as this is important. I would like to use the following configurations. I'm open to thoughts on the fuel configuration if anyone has any.

 

All Altitudes:

Full Ammo

Power Settings (2 sets) - One at Maximum Power with boost where available (you may need to turn off engine damage to keep emergency timers running) and at Combat Power

Flaps - Up (If you feel an airplane needs an extra 2 sets to show performance with flaps...the P-38 comes to mind for example..feel free to do so)

 

Sea Level:

Fuel - 50%

3000m:

Fuel - 50%

6000m:

Fuel - 50%

9000m:

Fuel - 50%

 

If the service ceiling of an aircraft is below one of these values then there is no need to test it.

 

5. When spawning in, turn your replay on CTRL+R and then speed up above your testing airspeed at whatever power setting you're using. Then initiate a level turn and use G to bleed speed down to your desired speed for that testing sequence. Fly at least three complete circles at your constant airspeed and maintain your altitude as best as you can, but try not to lose more than 100m or so.

 

6. Review the flight. Whether you want to do Tacview for timing or use manual timing with the in-game flight replay is up to you.

 

7. As an extra thing if you could determine the stall speed at the different altitudes and configurations (if using flaps) that would be great. It is in the technical specifications page but I'd like to know if those are correct to use or not as that affects the final product.

 

Extra Notes:

- Due to the different power settings and possible flap settings there will be at least 2 graphs for each altitude as each diagram is only accurate for the configuration/atmospheric conditions.

- Once I hear your thoughts about this and a general consensus on the configurations/testing setup can be reached I'll attach the mission and provide a link to a google spreadsheet where people can fill out their data for the airplane(s) they want to test.

- This project is what I think of as "garbage in, garbage out" so the results really depend on the quality of testing and consistency between pilots.

 

Of course I don't even know if there is a demand for this kind of thing...but here is a quick example of the reason why I created this EM Generator (without test data) to illustrate how you can compare two airplanes by overlaying their performance. If there is no interest then that's no problem but it's available to create data for the community as I'm not interested in figuring this stuff out and keeping it secret.

 

Cheers,

Req

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Requiem
Removed spreadsheet link. No testing.

[peregrine7]

Would love to help, mind sharing the excel file? Would help greatly.

 

Anyway, share your mission! Been keen to do this for a while now.

 

[Requiem]

1 hour ago, peregrine7 said:

Would love to help, mind sharing the excel file? Would help greatly.

 

Anyway, share your mission! Been keen to do this for a while now.

 

Thanks Peregrine, I just want to give it a little time and see what people think. I don't want to prematurely release something to test with that isn't set up right.

[peregrine7]

2 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Thanks Peregrine, I just want to give it a little time and see what people think. I don't want to prematurely release something to test with that isn't set up right.

 

Sure! You inspired me to make my own EM chart (hence my comment on your video).

 

Running through Excel -> Tableau (for graphing) with some slow but rigorous formulas haha!

[357th_KW]

I'd be willing to pitch in as well.

[busdriver]

I have two suggestions...and some questions.

 

1) Have all airplanes use 50% fuel at all altitudes. Pretty sure the USAF used 50% internal fuel for the sake of having a standard reference. Plus this would eliminate one more variable.

2) Perhaps check the 1g stall at all four altitudes...just in case there is some programming anomaly. The IAS stall speed will obviously need to be converted to TAS, easy with TacView.

 

17 hours ago, Requiem said:

When spawning in, turn your replay on CTRL+R and then speed up above your testing airspeed at whatever power setting you're using. Then initiate a level turn and use G to bleed speed down to your desired speed for that testing sequence. Fly at least three complete circles at your constant airspeed and maintain your altitude as best as you can, but try not to lose more than 100m or so.

 

Do you have specific IAS airspeeds in mind, or are you leaving it to the tester to pick a range of speeds? 

[Requiem]

12 minutes ago, busdriver said:

I have two suggestions...and some questions.

 

1) Have all airplanes use 50% fuel at all altitudes. Pretty sure the USAF used 50% internal fuel for the sake of having a standard reference. Plus this would eliminate one more variable.

2) Perhaps check the 1g stall at all four altitudes...just in case there is some programming anomaly. The IAS stall speed will obviously need to be converted to TAS, easy with TacView.

 

 

Do you have specific IAS airspeeds in mind, or are you leaving it to the tester to pick a range of speeds? 

1) Ok, 50% at all altitudes. Thanks for that mate, makes sense. I wasn't sure as to how to go about it hence why I held off on letting people test.

2) Good suggestion to confirm it stays stable. I just was making an assumption it would be fine.

3) The testing airspeeds are provided in the online spreadsheet to fill the testing data into (which I haven't made available yet).

[Requiem]

Alrighty I've opened it up for testing and data input. The excel data sheet is editable to anyone with the link and I've included the Kuban mission with sea level, 3000m, 6000m, and 9000m options. All you'll need to do is edit the mission for your airplane of choice

[357th_KW]

Any thoughts on altimeter setting? Should we use local field or std?  It's only a couple feet difference on this map I guess, but we might as well all be on the same page.

Edited April 16, 2020 by KW_1979

[Requiem]

1 hour ago, KW_1979 said:

Any thoughts on altimeter setting? Should we use local field or std?  It's only a couple feet difference on this map I guess, but we might as well all be on the same page.

Use standard. The plane starts out over the water. Thanks!

[chris_uk_83]

Requiem, after watching your excellent videos on BFM, I'm quite happy to lend a hand to this project.

 

I'm not the most skilled pilot, but I've been practising flying in circles, and, if I have a large enough sample size, the data is bound to be somewhere near!

 

I've started adding times for the Tempest MkV to your spreadsheet. I notice that no other data is in there at all, am I looking at the wrong sheet?

 

It's just taken me an hour to get three data points in, so completing it might take a while, but I'll keep plugging away.

 

I have the flight recordings if you want to assess the quality of the piloting to see if the data is useful or not, but I tend to manage 7 circles while staying within 200 ft of target and within 10mph of target at all times, with most time spent within plus or minus 4mph.

[Requiem]

27 minutes ago, chris_uk_83 said:

Requiem, after watching your excellent videos on BFM, I'm quite happy to lend a hand to this project.

 

I'm not the most skilled pilot, but I've been practising flying in circles, and, if I have a large enough sample size, the data is bound to be somewhere near!

 

I've started adding times for the Tempest MkV to your spreadsheet. I notice that no other data is in there at all, am I looking at the wrong sheet?

 

It's just taken me an hour to get three data points in, so completing it might take a while, but I'll keep plugging away.

 

I have the flight recordings if you want to assess the quality of the piloting to see if the data is useful or not, but I tend to manage 7 circles while staying within 200 ft of target and within 10mph of target at all times, with most time spent within plus or minus 4mph.

Hi Chris, there's no data in there because I guess no one wanted to help so I just let this thread die. It's ok though as I have a much more efficient way to test external to Il-2 now. When I publish my next video on EM theory maybe there will be more interest in conducting testing, but for now though just sit tight. I'll have a look at your Tempest times when I get a chance and compare it to mine. I use my keyboard to flight test because it's much more accurate. Currently I've done the P51, MkIX, Tempest, K4, and F4.

[chris_uk_83]

No worries, if you already have the data, I'll not bother duplicating it.

 

Would it be useful for me to get data on other aircraft, or shall I just wait for your other method?

 

Incidentally, I don't suppose you've shared the key airspeeds for the aircraft you've already done somewhere, have you?

[Requiem]

1 hour ago, chris_uk_83 said:

No worries, if you already have the data, I'll not bother duplicating it.

 

Would it be useful for me to get data on other aircraft, or shall I just wait for your other method?

 

Incidentally, I don't suppose you've shared the key airspeeds for the aircraft you've already done somewhere, have you?

If you can wait that will be fine for now as the new method uses an app for real time data which saves a TON of effort. The only place I've shared some of the numbers I have are on my Patreon atm as it's all WIP and subject to change as I refine the testing process (the pictures in the first post here are out of date). When the time comes for more widespread testing I'll make another thread, but that won't happen before I complete my next video on EM theory.