Battle of Balaton/Battle of Hungary

[Ruben_Szabo]

As far as I know, there has been no topic about about a possible game set in Hungary, 1944-45. 

Here is what I think the game could look like.

 

Planeset

 

Germany:

-Bf-109 G-10

-Fw-190 F-8

-Me-210 Ca-1

-Ju-87 D-5

Premium: Ju-88 S-1

 

The Royal Hungarian Air Force also used all of these planes, most notably the Me-210, which saw more service with Hungary than with Germany. For both the German and Hungarian airforces, the following already existing planes would be avialable:

-all Bf-109s from G-6 and onwards

-all Fw-190s from A-6 and onwards (yes, I know it will come with Normandy)

-Bf-110 G-2

-He-111 H-16

-Ju-52

-Hs-129 B-2 (but with 75mm!)

-I could not find info on the Me-262 in Hungary.

-the Ta-152 might have been used during the later stages of the battle, but I didn't find any evidence of this, therefore I didn't include it in the planeset. If it was used, however, it would be a better choice for a premium.

Most of these planes were flown by both Germans and Hungarians.

 

Russia:

-La-7

Il-2M3

Il-4

Yak-9U

Premium: P-63 Airacobra

 

I could not find a lot of information about the VVS in Hungary during this time, so if anyone has better suggestions, please make sure to write a comment. In addition, the following already existing planes would be avialable:

-Il-2 AM-38F

-Yak-9T

-Yak-7b series 36

-all La-5 planes

-Pe-2 series 87

 

Map

 

Since there is no bigger sea of open area in western Hungary, I made the map a bit smaller than the Kuban map, so it's still possible to detail everything. 

The timeframe, with this map, could well include the Siege of Budapest, Unternehmen Frühlingerwachen and the Soviet thrust towards Vienna, so from about September 1944 to March/April 1945. 

The campaign could be divided into 5 chapters:

-Drive to Budapest

-Capital under siege

-Frühlingserwachen

-Counter-offensive

-On the outskirts of Vienna

With a slightly bigger map, the Siege of Vienna could also be included.

 

It would be very important with this game that the Hungarian airforce is also included, as it made up a big part of the Axis forces in the area. There weren't a lot of Hungarian squadrons, however, so it wouldn't be that hard to implement into the game. 

There could be a new mission type: Close Air Support. It would basically be the same as Ground Troops Cover, but with the ground units being on the move. They could interact with the aircraft, for example requesting strafing on an area, or the destruction of certain indicated targets, including buildings. A high number of missions like this were flown by both sides during Unternehmen Frühlingserwachen.

As the Americans bombed Hungary extensively, Intercept Bombers missions could be added with existing B-25s and escort fighters. 

 

If you have any suggestions or something you'd like to add, please write a comment!

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Ruben_Szabo

[Chief_Mouser]

I'd like to see the map, but the planeset doesn't excite me at all. It's just more of the same.

I'd buy the map if it were released on it's own, and maybe a couple of collector planes relevant to it, but I wouldn't pay for the whole package.

[Ruben_Szabo]

Unfortunately, most of the planes that were used during this time are already in the game.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Ruben_Szabo

[ShamrockOneFive]

I really liked the old Balaton map in IL-2: Great Battles. That was a good one! I played a long Hungarian Air Force campaign on there with Bf109s going up against various Allied bomber raids and that was quite a lot of fun too. Always wished we had the Me210 to fly back then.

 

Love the idea here but it may not capture the attention of as many players as some other possibilities. If a late war East Front scenario does come (and I think it will), the drive to Berlin is much more likely.  That said, if such a scenario were to emerge, another map featuring this battle would certainly be satisfied by that aircraft set.

[Ruben_Szabo]

17 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I really liked the old Balaton map in IL-2: Great Battles. That was a good one! I played a long Hungarian Air Force campaign on there with Bf109s going up against various Allied bomber raids and that was quite a lot of fun too. Always wished we had the Me210 to fly back then.

 

Love the idea here but it may not capture the attention of as many players as some other possibilities. If a late war East Front scenario does come (and I think it will), the drive to Berlin is much more likely.  That said, if such a scenario were to emerge, another map featuring this battle would certainly be satisfied by that aircraft set.

Yes, of course, a Berlin map is much more likely to come. The planeset would be more interesting too - He 162s, Ta 152s, maybe even Me 163s. 

[CountZero]

19 minutes ago, Ruben_Szabo said:

Yes, of course, a Berlin map is much more likely to come. The planeset would be more interesting too - He 162s, Ta 152s, maybe even Me 163s. 

Yes Yes and Ta-183 and Lippisch p13, there must be some grandma that saw them fly in 1945 so axis have to have them.

ANd on allied side we can go with only IL-4 as we allready have Yak-9, Pe-2 and La5FN and P-39N in game so better make room for more Axis airplanes and do only 2 VVS ones , and add Bf-109G10 C3 and Fw-190D15 and maybe I-153 for Allieds as bonus airplane.

And then also have balance online where Axis can have as many airplanes and slots available so they can play 60 vs 24 and win Berlin like they will do over Normandy, or West Germany now in BoBp.

Wonder why Allieds didnt have any prototype airplanes in air in 1945, its realy weard how Axis only had so great airplanes and extreme engine timers late in war but manage to lose war, but Allieds were so conservative in airplane types used and engine limitations in manuals, must be something game dont simulate right but cant quite put my finger on it.

 

Oh yes we need Me-262 HG mod also

Edited April 11, 2020 by CountZero

[sevenless]

27 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

If a late war East Front scenario does come (and I think it will), the drive to Berlin is much more likely.  That said, if such a scenario were to emerge, another map featuring this battle would certainly be satisfied by that aircraft set.

 

Yes that is also my bet. "Battle of Berlin" or from "Vistula to Berlin" or "Goetterdaemmerung" or "Downfall" or whatever that 44/45 scenario could be called would offer the chance to integrate the ultimate last fancy VVS stuff (Yak-3, La-7, IL-10, Tu-3, etc) and maybe some interesting left out german planes like Ta-152 (were operating from Altena, south of Berlin), Me-109 G6/G14 AS, 109-G10, Fw 190 A9 and F9, Ju88-S, maybe even some Mistel variants to attack Oder bridges. And you more or less could use nearly all planes which already have been released for the other modules. So that would be a chance not to leave out easily.

 

However I personally would like to also see a 1944 scenario in the east, showing how the VVS turned the table against the Lufties. Maybe Bagration could be such a module. Let´s see what surprizes they have for us in the future. 

[ww2fighter20]

The Fw190F-8 (and G-8) is already available as an modification for the Fw190A8.

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

 

Love the idea here but it may not capture the attention of as many players as some other possibilities. If a late war East Front scenario does come (and I think it will), the drive to Berlin is much more likely.  That said, if such a scenario were to emerge, another map featuring this battle would certainly be satisfied by that aircraft set.

Agree. Perhaps sometime in the future something like Collector Maps can be a thing and the Balaton map and perhaps others like Crimea, etc. could be added to the game for maybe $50.

[Alexmarine]

3 hours ago, Ruben_Szabo said:

Eastern Austria/Western Hungary can be a perfect substitute for the Berlin are to set a late Ost Front module, so I will mainly comment on the planeset

 

Germany:

-Bf-109 G-10 (makes sense)

 

-Fw-190 F-8 (A8 mod already in game)

 

-Me-210 Ca-1 (older version of the Me410 coming with Normandy, probably the Germans dumped them on the Hungarian as they were obsolete in the West)

 

-Ju-87 D-5 (make sense)

 

Premium: Ju-88 S-1 (no Ju-88 unit in the East by late 1944, especially with the really rare S model)

 

-all Bf-109s from G-6 and onwards (yes)

 

-all Fw-190s from A-6 and onwards (yes)

 

-Bf-110 G-2 (not many left around by late '44)

 

-He-111 H-16 (actually an H-20 would be perfect for late Ost Front)

 

-Ju-52 (we got it)

 

-Hs-129 B-2 (need to see if we can fit the 75mm gun)

 

-Me-262 (operating more from the Czechoslovakia area)

 

-the Ta-152 (not in sector)

 

Russia:

-La-7 (yes)

 

Il-2M3 (yes)

 

Il-4 (pretty much useless and not even around)

 

Yak-9U (yes)

 

Premium: P-63 Airacobra (not used against Germany)

 

-Il-2 AM-38F (phased out)

 

-Yak-9T (still in some units)

 

-Yak-7b series 36 (phased out)

 

-all La-5 planes (mainly only FNs by late 1944)

 

-Pe-2 series 87 (yes but with series 110 mod by late 1944)

 

My own set:

 

Bf109 G10

FW190 A9

Ju-87 D5

Ta-152 (which will suit more Berlin though)

He-111 H-20

 

La-7

Yak-3

Yak-9U

Il-2M3

Tu-2

 

Personally I would love to see a late war P-39N or Q but is a quirky plane that not everyone knows how to tame and I feel like it should not get the spot of the three late war soviet top fighters...

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

Dream on, dreamers.

[Juri_JS]

Hungary is certainly one of the more interesting late war scenarios. VVS planeset could be a problem. The latest fighter types like the La-7 and Yak-3 arrived rather late. In early 1945 the VVS in Hungary still used many older types, like the Yak-1b. Bomber units almost exclusively flew the A-20.

 

7 hours ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

probably the Germans dumped them on the Hungarian as they were obsolete in the West

No, the Me-210 Ca-1 is the improved version produced in Hungary. The Hungarians used it rather successfully as fighter-bomber, so it's probably a must-have for the Axis planeset.

[Ruben_Szabo]

6 hours ago, mincer said:

Dream on, dreamers.

It’s not a dream. Most of us know that such a game will almost certainly never happen. But isn’t it fun to discuss it?

[-[HRAF]Amergin]

For the tank crew there is a possibility to modell the Battle of Debrecen which was the second biggest tank battle in Europe after Kursk. So soo much oppotunities here.

[Hiuuz]

Just a sidenote, that in summer of '44 was the 'american season', against B-24, B-17, P-51, P-38. Could be an interesting mix with the soviet invasion!