Bomb damage on tanks 4.005

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Anyone have any thoughts/observations on how bomb damage to tanks works after the latest patch(4.005)?

 

I am under the impression that a 50kg right next to (2-5m - I am guessing here) a t34/KV1 will kill it now, where you used to have to put it on (0 - 1m) the tank in most cases? As it lands further away the blast damage reduces rapidly.

 

What about mk103 AP rounds...any differences on their effectiveness?

Edited April 10, 2020 by =EXPEND=Dendro

[[DBS]Browning]

I have no idea, but realistically, I wouldn't expect a 50kg bomb to do much to a tank beyond a metre or two. Blast fragments are fast, but not that fast. 

[Luftschiff]

I haven't tried the Mk103 yet but my tests with the BK37 give much better results than previously if you come in with speed - something I thought was modelled before but evidently wasn't. Speed inherited from the aircraft will increase penetration power and I took down two KV-1's in a single pass yesterday (though granted this was under ideal testing conditions and with some luck) whereas previously my normal floundering about would take several passes to even seriously damage one. 

 

I'd expect the Mk101/3 to see similar improvements, but I've never had much luck with it.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Luftschiff

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

6 hours ago, =EXPEND=Dendro said:

Anyone have any thoughts/observations on how bomb damage to tanks works after the latest patch(4.005)?

 

I am under the impression that a 50kg right next to (2-5m - I am guessing here) a t34/KV1 will kill it now, where you used to have to put it on (0 - 1m) the tank in most cases? As it lands further away the blast damage reduces rapidly.

 

What about mk103 AP rounds...any differences on their effectiveness?

 

Irregularly shaped fragments weighing maybe a couple hundred grams and traveling likely under 500m/s are highly unlikely to do any damage at all to a tank, nevermind penetrating armour plate. I have a pair of lexan goggles that I wear for work that can take a 75 gram sphere at 230m/s without breaking haha. 

[Tipsi]

3 minutes ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

Irregularly shaped fragments weighing maybe a couple hundred grams and traveling likely under 500m/s are highly unlikely to do any damage at all to a tank, nevermind penetrating armour plate. I have a pair of lexan goggles that I wear for work that can take a 75 gram sphere at 230m/s without breaking haha. 

 

I think the OP's point/question is: With the new damage modelling (including new HE and explosive modding), have the German 50kg bombs been buffed accidentally, as we can now destroy tanks with 1x 50kg bomb 3-5 meters away?

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

1 minute ago, Tipsi said:

 

I think the OP's point/question is: With the new damage modelling (including new HE and explosive modding), have the German 50kg bombs been buffed accidentally, as we can now destroy tanks with 1x 50kg bomb 3-5 meters away?

 

O I C

 

If the 50s are killing tanks that easily, that is inaccurate in my opinion. Even a 250kg should be extremely close to effect a kill. Here is a question, do they model tanks being flipped over on their side or top from a bomb blast? A 250kg a bit further away should probably at least be able to do something like that, even if it doesn't penetrate armour.

[Plurp]

To me it seems that the 50 kg have to be closer, if not directly on top of tanks/vehicles now.  103 seems the same to me.

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

4 hours ago, Plurp said:

To me it seems that the 50 kg have to be closer, if not directly on top of tanks/vehicles now.  103 seems the same to me.

And I've seen you demolish tanks with deadly accuracy... Thanks for your input. 

[Velxra]

In another thread it was discussed how the 50kg bombs do more damage to buildings than the heavier bombs. My guess is the 50kg bombs are using the older code or are not tuned correctly. Thus they are more effective then they should be right now.

 

A close 250kg bomb or heavier bomb should definitely knock out a tank or at least just kill the crew inside. A 50kg bomb should be survivable beyond a direct hit destroying the tracks. That is my opinion at least in what I would expect to happen.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Geronimo553

[Sybreed]

All I can say is that I killed 3 kv1s with a single 500kg bomb

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

21 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

In another thread it was discussed how the 50kg bombs do more damage to buildings than the heavier bombs. My guess is the 50kg bombs are using the older code or are not tuned correctly. Thus they are more effective then they should be right now.

 

A close 250kg bomb or heavier bomb should definitely knock out a tank or at least just kill the crew inside. A 50kg bomb should be survivable beyond a direct hit destroying the tracks. That is my opinion at least in what I would expect to happen.

Ehh,

Depends

[Lusekofte]

5 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=RoflSeal said:

Ehh,

Depends

Nice

[Velxra]

Yes for an explosive to detonate against a sloped armor section I expect minimal results. However most tanks then and now are plain flat surfaces on the side and rear. Thus the force will have a greater effect against a flat surface. Also the primary concern of the tank is losing the crew to the forces at play in the explosion, or the tiny metal fragments throw against the crew acting like shrapnel from the metal interior. The bombs dont really damage the tank unless the bomb is a direct hit on top or within a few feet from the side or rear.

 

 

Also in 1953 the Britsh nuked one of their own tanks and it was only moved a few feet. The simulated people inside were definitely dead from the force of impact. But otherwise the tank itself was fine due to its sloped armor deflecting the blast. They even put it back in service radiation and all. Probably to test it to...

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a23990/br

[FoxbatRU]

1*250+2*50=2*34+4*KV++

 

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

11 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

Yes for an explosive to detonate against a sloped armor section I expect minimal results. However most tanks then and now are plain flat surfaces on the side and rear. Thus the force will have a greater effect against a flat surface. Also the primary concern of the tank is losing the crew to the forces at play in the explosion, or the tiny metal fragments throw against the crew acting like shrapnel from the metal interior. The bombs dont really damage the tank unless the bomb is a direct hit on top or within a few feet from the side or rear.

 

The bombs are described as being placed on the right side of the tank and no major internal damage is mentioned.

Edited April 13, 2020 by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

[ZachariasX]

29 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=RoflSeal said:

The bombs are described as being placed on the right side of the tank and no major internal damage is mentioned.

Tanks are not sealed airtight. The pressure wave can still disable the crew inside despite leaving the hull intact.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

20 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Tanks are not sealed airtight. The pressure wave can still disable the crew inside despite leaving the hull intact.

Explosive pressure also travels the path of least resistance, and so will go around the tank... unless you are talking about a nuclear bomb, which is a whole other level, when you are talking about thousands of tons of equivalent TNT, not a 0.12 ton of explosive.

 

Another example, the RAF calculated you needed 866 sorties with 1000 lb dumb bombs, to kill 1 tank. If you use an LGB, you only need 1, why? Because the laser guided bomb pretty much guaranties a direct hit. Dumb bombs are aweful weapons to use against any armored vehicle. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, =362nd_FS=RoflSeal said:

Explosive pressure also travels the path of least resistance, and so will go around the tank...

You have pressure and heat followed by vaccuum. This along with a considerably loud „bang“.

 

But it really doesn’t take that much. If you have a tank like a Friefly next to another thank, and the Firefly would shoot, the blast sideways from the main gun would be enough for the crew in the other tank stop doing whatever they were doing for a moment.

 

A blast of a 250 kg bomb would leave the tank crew stone deaf, best case. Sound proofing works differently than to what is offered as a tank hull. You gatta find a new crew at least. It is rather telling that despite tanks being so unimpressed by bomb blasts (impressive chart btw.!) they never found any volunteer to sit in a tank for asking him „now, how was that?“ after such a bomb experiment. I mean, the military of all places is where you find volunteers for anything. Yet, they didn‘t find a single one to sit in a tank for such an experiment. Even by asking nicely I suppose. And even though the blast supposedly is deflected, as you say.

 

Doesn‘t really matter if your tank is fine if your soldiers are not. 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by ZachariasX