New Player - Looking for Info.

[Valok]

Howdy everyone, first of all I would like to throw a very small introduction;

 

Ever since I was a small child I loved planes, I used to try to make drawings of them and I was always looking for aerial combat games to play (funnily enough though I'm not very fond of high altitudes in RL ). Last year I started my virtual pilot carrear on War Thunder; and after 100h on Arcade + 200h on "Realistic" mode I finally felt that I wanted more, thus begin's my adventures on Simulator battles. However once I clocked ~35h I was kinda sick of it, not of flying though - I actually wanted to keep playing, but the problems there were really starting to bother me to no end (Not the technical problems per say but the design choices, lack of significant improvements in SB, overall developer stance when it comes to balance + massive lack of communication and of course no sign's that this particular mode will ever receive proper support).

 

Thankfully though I started seeing on the forums talk about an "other game" and a few google's later I was here. I will say that after what I saw so far in vids/screenshots that I'm very interested, however since I'm not american and the dollar rate of conversion on my country is 1:2,3 this $ 95 game ends up becoming 220 bucks + possible credit card taxes game, so as you can see it's quite an investiment and I would like known a few things beforehand. I'm still a massive noob by the way so apologies if some of my questions makes no sense at all.

 

Prop pitch/RPM/ATA/Radiator/Mixtures/Supercharger/All the good stuff/ is for the most part (I believe) automatic in War Thunder SB, how is it here? While I'm definetly willing to learn more and more about it as time goes on do I absolutely need to know it before I start playing? What would you say it would be good to understand (Aircraft manual controls-wise) before I start playing? I am by the way a German fanboy so I will probably stick for the most part with the Bf 109's.

 

Also since this is quite a new hobby for me I have none of the "extra equipment" to support it, just the keyboard + a crappy cheap joystick (Saitek ST90). Nonetheless I have created a very good keymapping with these to control both the plane and view in WT.. Which leads to my question. The K+J combo here is enough (for a starter) to control both the Plane and the View? I'm asking this because I believe the amount of manual controls that I have to execute here will increase in comparison with WT and therefor I'm afraid of running out of keys to properly control the plane in a efficient manner. (In WT I use 2 buttons on the joystick to control the camera Left/Right and W/S Up/Down, X is Zoom. The rest of the keyboard is for general use).

 

Apologies for the long post and for any grammar mistakes, english is not my first language. Thank you!

Edited April 26, 2014 by Valok

[ST_Pirato]

You have the option of different difficulty settings,like automated engine controls if you prefer that, I would advice though to to stick with the Complex engine management from the start even if it is harder. It won't teach you bad habbits which you propably will get by using the simplified stuff ...unlearning bad habbits later on is difficult too. And some Servers are using the complex settings only,if you intend to do Multiplayer also. Have a look here for some valuable information and tutorials concerning engine management and other things http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3625-il-2-bos-tutorials-tir-profile-g940-controls-sweetfx-updated/

 

I think your Joystick will do it, but some kind of rudder control would be helpful. Using the Keyboard for general stuff and views should work well too if you are used to it. The mouse to control view is also an option.

 

Edit: You could try Rise of Flight first,it's not the same as it's WW1 aviation. but the Game engine is similar to BoS and its made by the same Developer. There are some similarities like the viewing system and the flight physics and it should give you a good idea on what BoS feels like,except for the Planes characteristics. Its Free to Play version consists 2 Planes and is basicly the full game but only 2 flyable aircraft,the rest can be flown by AI and other players in MP. http://riseofflight.com/tryrof/en

Edited April 26, 2014 by ST_Pirato

[Finkeren]

I understand your concerns over the price. For many people it's quite a large investment, but IMHO the content that's already available is worth it, and it's only gonna get better from here at no extra charge.

 

The detail and accuracy of controls is more than a few steps up the ladder from WT. All controls handle the way they're supposed to IRL, however, there are a few minor things, such as engine start up procedure, fuel management, gunsights, and radio comms that are simplified or automated (that is, handled by the computer) but even the automated systems are modelled in detail and behave quite realistically. It's not quite DCS-level in terms of controls (no click-pits) but still rather detailed and complex.

 

Where the Digital Nature Engine truly shines is in the flight physics. We have quite a few RL pilots on these boards, and almost all of them say, that BoS gives them a "feeling" of actual flight unlike any other sim they've tried. In particular the ground handling and sense of the aircraft having mass gets a lot of praise. Damage model is pretty good too though still unfinished, and gunnery is accurate with accurate ballistics, correctly simulated sychronisation mechanisms but (as of yet) no gun jams. Graphics are in most aspects much superior to WT, but the snow covered landscapes may look a little bleak and uninteresting compared to WT's shiny, but highly unrealistic, arena-like maps, but that's Russian winter for ya. BoS sound is already the best, I've ever heard in a sim, and some sounds are still not finished.

 

As for accesibility: There are a lot of different difficulty options to make a transition easier, but expect nothing quite as simple as WT on "novice" level. It will take some getting used to, but it all comes quite intuitively, and some of the planes in BoS are definately easier to master than others. The main obstacle might be if you have a shoddy joystick. I have the less-than-stellar Saitek X52, and it does make my flying less precise than it could have been. A throttle quadrant or at least a few sliders would be a good investment too in time, as would TrackIR or equivalent (something I personally don't use), but only a keyboard and joystick are really needed to fly on full realism.

 

If you're in doubt whether this is something for you, there is only one thing I can recommend: Get the free-to-play version of Rise of Flight!

 

 

Yes, it's about WW1 and therefore obviously somewhat different, but it's made by the same developer, using the same engine and has the same great feeling of flight. It is also slightly simpler in terms of controls, though some of the notoriously unstable WW1 crates are very difficult to handle. It will give you a good idea about what to expect from BoS, only BoS is even better in virtually every aspect. And the great thing is: You can download and play it for free! The sim comes with 2 flyable planes and access to every aspect of the sim with those 2 planes, more planes (I think there are close to 30 by now) can be bought seperately or in bundles along with a few extra goodies and new maps, but you can get the full experience of the Rise of Flight from just the free-to-play version.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Finkeren

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Just a quick note... If u want to spend money on peripherals... Keep tje stick for awhile and get yourself a trackir..... Its more essential than any expensive hotas setup....

 

Welcome

[ST_Pirato]

More important than TrackIR ,in my opinion, is a set of Rudderpedals,especially if your Stick doesn't have a Twistgrip for rudder control. View control works too with the mouse,or with keys what you are used to already. TrackIR is great to have,I myself wouldn't go without it anymore. But I consider proper ruddercontrols more essential in the beginning than a TrackIR.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Welcome,

 

If you are going to just drive the Messerschmitt you may want to wait for the commercial release of the standard version. The F4 will be very capable, included and $30'ish cheaper (before the conversion rate).

 

Rudder pedals, IMHO, are a must and TiR is a game changer if you can get them. Used MSFFB2 and TM 16000 joysticks get recommended here fairly often, though, I've never owned either.

 

Other than that, I'd say jump in. It's a very capable simulator and not yet half finished. The learning curve will be a little steep but so is training a wartime fighter pilot.

Edited April 26, 2014 by A1FltTrn=HerrMurf

[Valok]

Thank you all for the great tips!

 

I'm also happy to inform that I'm now a proud owner of BoS :D.

 

There are just a few more things I would like to know, if anyone could help me with it I would definetly appreciate. On WT I used both the A/D keys and the joystick to roll the plane, however here it seems I can only use one at a time. On the controls section if I set up the joystick the A/D keys stop working, if however I turn off the Joystick the A/D starts working but there's also a small problem with it. If I press A to roll left, the plane of course starts rolling, once I release A however the left aileron does not "reset", it just stays there until I hold D long enough to go back to the starting position.

 

Is there a way to make the A/D keys and the joystick work together? Also if I decide to use A/D is there a option somewhere to make the ailerons "reset" once I release the keys?

 

Another thing, I did searched the forum and it seems the option to "trim" the plane is not available yet, there is however the Adjustable Stabilizer and I'm using it on the 109 to make it more stable at high speeds, I have not found however a way to adjust the propeller torque and reduce the constant roll a bit. Is there currently a way to adjust a bit this?

 

Once again, thank you.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Valok

[Finkeren]

I don't know about joystick overriding key bindings, but with regards to trim, trim tabs are not implemented yet, but the adjustable horizontal stabilizer on the 109 does work, and that is the only form of adjustable trim, the 109 had. Elsewise the plane is pre-trimmed to fly straight and level at 400km/h. At any other speed some stick force is needed to fly the 109.

 

As for adjusting "propeller torque" I'm not sure what you mean, if you mean adjusting pitch to change RPM, that can only be done right now by reducing throttle, because the manual override to the automated RPM-governor and radiator control is not implemented yet. If you are talking about trimming the 109 in the rolling plane, that will never be posible, because the 109 had no adjustable trim on the ailerons.

[FlatSpinMan]

Yay! Another new player. welcome - I think you'll enjoy this.

 

I only use a keyboard and a twist-grip joystick. Admittedly, I'm crap, so maybe there is something to be said for better equipment after all.

Just to clarify, if you have a joystick, why are you using the keyboard to roll? Can't you just to pull the stick left or right? Make sure when you set the controls up that you pay attention to the columns - one is for keys, the other for joystick controls.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 First of all, congrats on getting BoS. Not a bad choice! For tips and tricks you should peek in here as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/RequiemBoS

Edited April 27, 2014 by LLv34_Flanker

[Valok]

I don't know about joystick overriding key bindings, but with regards to trim, trim tabs are not implemented yet, but the adjustable horizontal stabilizer on the 109 does work, and that is the only form of adjustable trim, the 109 had. Elsewise the plane is pre-trimmed to fly straight and level at 400km/h. At any other speed some stick force is needed to fly the 109.

 

As for adjusting "propeller torque" I'm not sure what you mean, if you mean adjusting pitch to change RPM, that can only be done right now by reducing throttle, because the manual override to the automated RPM-governor and radiator control is not implemented yet. If you are talking about trimming the 109 in the rolling plane, that will never be posible, because the 109 had no adjustable trim on the ailerons.

 

I think I have found a small bug(?). Although I saw that some ppl were also having problems with Joystick's overriding certain things no one reported the problems I am having so I filled a bug report, if you wanna see it and maybe try it for yourself the description on how to do it is here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2093-controls-gui-texts/page-6, last post atm.

 

As for the propeller torque thing.. In WT theres an option to make "corrections" to the virtual center of your joystick and some other stuff and I use it to make the 109 as stable as possible at all speeds, so it's kinda like cheating an artificial trim I guess? At any rate I just noticed that after 400Km the prop torque indeed reduces a lot so I'll just get used to pull a bit more to the right at low speeds.

 

Just to clarify, if you have a joystick, why are you using the keyboard to roll? Can't you just to pull the stick left or right? Make sure when you set the controls up that you pay attention to the columns - one is for keys, the other for joystick controls.

 

I prefer it that way I guess, I feel like I'm more precise when it comes to aiming by doing it. Also yeah I've checked the columns and the commands are in the right position, if you wanna try it to see if the same problem happens to you take a look at the bug report I made, link's above.

 

S!

 

 First of all, congrats on getting BoS. Not a bad choice! For tips and tricks you should peek in here as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/RequiemBoS

 

Yup, I checked that channel and indeed there's some amazing stuff in there.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Valok

[Finkeren]

As for the propeller torque thing.. In WT theres an option to make "corrections" to the virtual center of your joystick and some other stuff and I use it to make the 109 as stable as possible at all speeds, so it's kinda like cheating an artificial trim I guess? At any rate I just noticed that after 400Km the prop torque indeed reduces a lot so I'll just get used to pull a bit more to the right at low speeds.

 

I'm pretty sure you can do that in BoS as well, though propably not for individual aircraft yet. You can do that in Rise of Flight and it's used a lot, because many of the planes are either naturally tail heavy or have a wierd - but historically accurate - stick center that's far to the back.

[IIN8II]

Welcome to BoS. Warthunder is a fantastic arcade shooter and I have a lot of fun with it. Its basically a first person shooter with planes and thats the kind of player that makes up most of the WT community. This is why there is very little work done to improve the simulator battles. Which is a shame because I think that the simulator battles have tons of potential. There are just too many broken flight models at the moment. Also, it just feels to me that when flying the simulator mode you dont feel at all like your actually flying the plane like you do in BoS or CloD.