Developer Diary 247 - Discussion

[ZachariasX]

How nice seeing all this work being done under the hood! Great work! Can't wait to see the results in upcoming patches.

[Dano]

Looking good, love the fact that older releases get all the updates too, thank you for all the work

[Raptorattacker]

Hopefully the change in the graphics engine won't require the remake of all the skins... I'd CERTAINLY have my work cut out!! That said, it'd be WELL worth it to make 'em look like THAT!!

Thanks for this DD, it's a cracker!!

Rap

[6FG_Big_Al]

I'm really impressed by the new effects and i love the new pilot models ? All in all it feels like this sim is evolving with huge steps and i really like it. 

So thanks for this update!  

[Avimimus]

I know there are so many other priorities... but, my gosh - with the new pilot models:

 

It'd be nice to be able to see your body in the cockpit. I didn't think this was a worthwhile feature... but after trying the mod with static models I found it to be so much more immersive (at least until the joystick clips through the hand!) ?

 

Anyway, as always, I appreciate all of the improvements and clever work (even if it makes things less unrealistically shiny).

[IRRE_Axurit]

Nice job, gentlemen, as usual !

 

Will these effects have an importance on the visibility of planes depending on their positions with the sun ?

And will the reflections on the water in VR be modified ?

Very nice WW1 video !!

 

FC1 is spreading well at the moment, it's cool !!

[Danziger]

32 minutes ago, Raptorattacker said:

Hopefully the change in the graphics engine won't require the remake of all the skins... I'd CERTAINLY have my work cut out!! That said, it'd be WELL worth it to make 'em look like THAT!!

Thanks for this DD, it's a cracker!!

Rap

I wonder how @szelljr would feel about it lol.

[LukeFF]

Awesome job on those new pilot models!

 

Question about this image: I noticed the pilot's collar is different in the two models. Why is that? 

 

[41Sqn_Skipper]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Awesome job on those new pilot models!

 

Question about this image: I noticed the pilot's collar is different in the two models. Why is that? 

 

 

Maybe different rank? The left one has shoulder clasps.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

1 hour ago, Jason_Williams said:

Also, according to Sergey DS better bifurcates our CPU and GPU work load. So having a powerful GPU will make more of a difference than before. 

 

Hi Jason, I apoligize in advance if this is a huge misunderstanding on my part, I´ve read somewhere in the forums that VR FPS are highly dependent on singular CPU core clockspeed, does what you said mean that DS will utilise more multicore performance for those of us CPUs with higher core count like the newest Ryzen CPUs? 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Nice update indeed. New DM and DS improving things can only make the game better

[E69_julian57]

I think they're different models
Look at the warrior buttons and the shoulder pads.

[Sneaksie]

Shoulder pads were introduced in the middle of the war in 1943, so it is an early war pilot on the right.

[SJ_Butcher]

1 hour ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

My tests so far with DS is very good in 4K maxed out. 120+ FPS. I detect no difference in my VR performance. Any issues in VR is not related to DS. Also, according to Sergey DS better bifurcates our CPU and GPU work load. So having a powerful GPU will make more of a difference than before. And it allows us to do more trick things like the reflections you see  in this DD without a huge FPS hit. So we'll see how far we take it. Many things in the kitchen.

 

Jason

 

Those this means that the workload should be reduced on CPU and increased in GPU?

Edited April 3, 2020 by SJ_Butcher

[Jason_Williams]

1 minute ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

Those this means that the workload should be reduced on CPU and increased in GPU?

 

That's the theory. 

 

Jason

[Trooper117]

11 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Question about this image: I noticed the pilot's collar is different in the two models. Why is that? 

 

 

Both versions shown here...

 

 

 

 

 

[RedKestrel]

2 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

That's the theory. 

 

Jason

Good news for me, I have a new video card ready to be installed. Just gotta screw up my courage (and not screw up the install). 

[Taxman]

Looking forward to this update.  My take away from the video is that I will try FC,  just wow.

[SPUDS_IdahoBookworm]

2 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Also, according to Sergey DS better bifurcates our CPU and GPU work load.

This is great news! Anything that can take the load off the CPU in VR is very welcome.

 

Jason, could I ask, respectfully, if your team could please consider taking a hard look at VR performance as you update the engine? I upgraded two days ago to a 9600K to pair with my 2080 Super, but my VR performance is still terrible. On Rhineland in particular my performance tanks in almost any dogfight, to the point of being more frustrating than fun, no matter how I adjust the settings. I'm told if I can overclock to 4.8 Ghz or above I should have better performance, but I will need a new motherboard before I can overclock, and I'll probably need faster RAM as well. Unfortunately, I've spent all I can afford to reach where I am currently; I have no idea when I'll be able to justify spending more, especially right now. (My PC started life as a budget build before I was gifted with the 2080S.)

 

My rig can run anything and everything very well — except IL-2 in VR. Even DCS VR runs great. I took a cruise down the notoriously hard-to-run Vegas strip yesterday and it ran smoothly. Only IL-2 defeats me. If anything more can be done to take more of the load off the CPU in VR, I and many others would be incredibly appreciative. If bigger engine changes can't be made, even something smaller like native Oculus support would be a big help for many of us (the Rift S is the most-owned VR headset currently according to new Steam surveys). Pretty please? 

 

I think better VR performance would potentially draw more customers to you, as well. I know people who fly War Thunder in VR because they can't run IL-2. Personally, I am excited for Normandy but I won't be able to preorder or purchase it for the foreseeable future because, firstly, any spending money I get I need to save to try to upgrade my rig yet again, and, secondly, I know I won't be able to enjoy it until my performance is better. Better VR performance will potentially open IL-2 up to other flight simmers who have made the jump to VR and can't give it up, but who don't quite have the power to run IL-2 in VR successfully.

[Jason_Williams]

3 minutes ago, IdahoBookworm said:

This is great news! Anything that can take the load off the CPU in VR is very welcome.

 

Jason, could I ask, respectfully, if your team could please consider taking a hard look at VR performance as you update the engine? I upgraded two days ago to a 9600K to pair with my 2080 Super, but my VR performance is still terrible. On Rhineland in particular my performance tanks in almost any dogfight, to the point of being more frustrating than fun, no matter how I adjust the settings. I'm told if I can overclock to 4.8 Ghz or above I should have better performance, but I will need a new motherboard before I can overclock, and I'll probably need faster RAM as well. Unfortunately, I've spent all I can afford to reach where I am currently; I have no idea when I'll be able to justify spending more, especially right now. (My PC started life as a budget build before I was gifted with the 2080S.)

 

My rig can run anything and everything very well — except IL-2 in VR. Even DCS VR runs great. I took a cruise down the notoriously hard-to-run Vegas strip yesterday and it ran smoothly. Only IL-2 defeats me. If anything more can be done to take more of the load off the CPU in VR, I and many others would be incredibly appreciative. If bigger engine changes can't be made, even something smaller like native Oculus support would be a big help for many of us (the Rift S is the most-owned VR headset currently according to new Steam surveys). Pretty please? 

 

I think better VR performance would potentially draw more customers to you, as well. I know people who fly War Thunder in VR because they can't run IL-2. Personally, I am excited for Normandy but I won't be able to preorder or purchase it for the foreseeable future because, firstly, any spending money I get I need to save to try to upgrade my rig yet again, and, secondly, I know I won't be able to enjoy it until my performance is better. Better VR performance will potentially open IL-2 up to other flight simmers who have made the jump to VR and can't give it up, but who don't quite have the power to run IL-2 in VR successfully.

 

Many users tell us our VR is great. So you guys send confusing signals. We did not invent VR technology, we can only work within it's limits and we do the best we can. And this thread is not about VR so please take it to the VR section.

 

Jason

[LizLemon]

I wonder how they are doing the cockpit reflections. It must be reflection probe cubemap...

 

  

5 hours ago, Asgar said:

just wondering (cause i simply have no idea) does the use of deferred shading mean you also have to use PBR to make full use of it?

 

You can do PBR with deferred or forward. It is just a way of doing lighting in a physically correct way.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

NICE! 

[Jason_Williams]

1 hour ago, LizLemon said:

I wonder how they are doing the cockpit reflections. It must be reflection probe cubemap...

 

  

 

You can do PBR with deferred or forward. It is just a way of doing lighting in a physically correct way.

 

A form of ray tracing. Not final, many things to clean up.

 

Jason

[IckyATLAS]

Excellent news and thank you to the team for all the hard work. Sure if this new way of rendering does reduce the abnormally highly mirror  reflective surface of the planes to a more realistic matte reflection then it is absolutely essential and pictures tend to show this.

If this new way of rendering is used and more correct according to optical laws, can we imagine that this would improve the navigation lights issues with correct light effect from glass light bulbs through the plexi transparent cover. Maybe we get also better effects for the search light optics.

[DN308]

Everything is really nice, as usual.

 

Please, let me ask a question anyway.

Should we have a release of the wonderful campaigns prepared for BoBP someday?

[Beazil]

Exciting times.  Damn I love this team.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

With new drawing method do refraction on 190 front glass or 20% zoom in aldis sight will be possible to implement?

[Raptorattacker]

4 hours ago, Danziger said:

I wonder how @szelljr would feel about it lol.

He's got even more skins than ME, yeah!!! Wow!! Thank goodness for small mercies if it comes to the crunch then, that's all I can say!!!

 

[HBB*Hunger]

Thank you as always! Nice update!

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

19 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

With new drawing method do refraction on 190 front glass or 20% zoom in aldis sight will be possible to implement?

If possible it could be quite good, benefitting all planes with armored glass like the IL-2 panel borders and La-5FN making the nose intake less prominent.

Edited April 3, 2020 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[svid123]

16 hours ago, =FEW=Revolves said:

 

I actually have a rather similar question. You'll probably have to reduce/turn off AA - I think IL-2 uses MSAA (someone correct me if I'm wrong? I haven't found any concrete info here), and unfortunately MSAA + deferred rendering = big FPS Loss.

 

Generally speaking BOS has never used raw forward renderer. Currently user version works with Forward+ renderer with prepass for lighting and graphics effects (such as SSAO, SSR etc). So switching to Deferred (Tiled Deferred 2.5D) reduces CPU bottleneck approximately by one thirds. This is especcialy important in heavy sceneries and multiplayer. The heaviest units in game are airplanes with thousands of baked joints and animations so Deferred is dedicated to reduce CPU load. Deferred is better suited for recent aircrafts with higher interiors complexity and for TC project as it has complicated inner tank lighting environments as well.
Knowing MSAA is killer for Deferred we've added an option FXAA thus DS+FXAA gives up to 50% performance increase comparing to Forward+ without antialiasing at all, depending on system. However MSAA option will persist and it works roughly the same or a little bit lower than before on regular monitors depending on resolution.

[keeno]

Cool DD, great shots, nice updates and an excellent FC video....... love it!

[LuftManu]

20 minutes ago, svid123 said:

 

Generally speaking BOS has never used raw forward renderer. Currently user version works with Forward+ renderer with prepass for lighting and graphics effects (such as SSAO, SSR etc). So switching to Deferred (Tiled Deferred 2.5D) reduces CPU bottleneck approximately by one thirds. This is especcialy important in heavy sceneries and multiplayer. The heaviest units in game are airplanes with thousands of baked joints and animations so Deferred is dedicated to reduce CPU load. Deferred is better suited for TC project as it has complicated inner tank lighting environments and for recent aircrafts with higher interiors complexity as well.
Knowing MSAA is killer for Deferred we've added an option FXAA thus DS+FXAA gives up to 50% performance increase comparing to Forward+ without antialiasing at all, depending on system. However MSAA option will persist and it works roughly the same or a little bit lower than before on regular monitors depending on resolution.

That are good news!

I wonder if this reduced CPU workload means that more units can be placed in the missions withouth performance or slowdowns?

Edited April 3, 2020 by LF_Gallahad

[pilotpierre]

Wow that video should be disseminated as much as possible. I fail to see how that couldn’t draw in new players.

[LizLemon]

1 hour ago, svid123 said:

 

Generally speaking BOS has never used raw forward renderer. Currently user version works with Forward+ renderer with prepass for lighting and graphics effects (such as SSAO, SSR etc). So switching to Deferred (Tiled Deferred 2.5D) reduces CPU bottleneck approximately by one thirds. This is especcialy important in heavy sceneries and multiplayer. The heaviest units in game are airplanes with thousands of baked joints and animations so Deferred is dedicated to reduce CPU load. Deferred is better suited for TC project as it has complicated inner tank lighting environments and for recent aircrafts with higher interiors complexity as well.
Knowing MSAA is killer for Deferred we've added an option FXAA thus DS+FXAA gives up to 50% performance increase comparing to Forward+ without antialiasing at all, depending on system. However MSAA option will persist and it works roughly the same or a little bit lower than before on regular monitors depending on resolution.

 

Any chance of adding SMAA and TXAA as well? And will things like gear indicator lights in cockpits now be actual lights instead of emissives?

[E69_geramos109]

Are this new tech going to help with the recent contact visibility problems, clouds etc?

[616Sqn_Tyggz]

Awesome dd!!

Old content is constantly being improved upon and tweaked while pushing forwards with plenty of new planes and functionality!

 

How are the pilot models going to work with the addition of the updated Soviet pilots?

 

I know Jason mentioned female soviet pilots too. Would there be any kind of functionality for switching the pilot models?

Will the Hurricane be limited to just VVS pilot models? Or would it have a choice between RAF and VVS?

 

As far as I can tell all the newer pilot models use the same rig so it wouldn't require redoing all the animations.

This is definitely potential for having some way to switch between VVS, RAF and US pilots in A-20, P-40, P-39, C-47, P-51, Spitfire, etc etc.

[Tycoon]

The camera options have improved a lot since rof, really good fc video.

[rowdyb00t]

1 hour ago, LF_Gallahad said:

I wonder if this reduced CPU workload means that more units can be placed in the missions withouth performance or slowdowns?

And maybe four engine bombers one day 

[Freycinet]

That video by +HH+ Pauk..... 

 

Hoooooly Batman, it really is incredible. One of the all-time best.