Tobruk (TFS 5.0) firsts?

[Avimimus]

Something I was thinking about: For an official commercial release TFS is going to produce a number of 'firsts'... things which have never been done before. But how many?

 

I thought - as we spend time looking forward to it - we might discuss what is or isn't completely new.

[Mysticpuma]

Dynamic weather system that looks amazing. 

[Avimimus]

Bf-108, Wellington come to mind... Ju-88C, Dewoitine D.520, Hurricane IID all come to mind as first (if we exclude MMOs anyway).

[DD_Arthur]

13 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Dynamic weather system that looks amazing. 

 

Really?  Must have missed that.......

[Avimimus]

4 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Really?  Must have missed that.......

 

I think it has been mentioned in passing but not shown... so I'm not sure how much we're supposed to know...

 

As for firsts: The North African theatre might be one? FS:SDOE did have a North Africa map... but the missions had Fw-190s and Me-262s on it... so... I'm not sure that it counts? I can't think of another sim...

[DD_Arthur]

56 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I think it has been mentioned in passing but not shown... 

 

Yeah,  I can't remember seeing anything so I'm slightly confused as to; 

 

18 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Dynamic weather system that looks amazing. 

 

?

 

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

As for firsts: The North African theatre might be one? FS:SDOE did have a North Africa map... but the missions had Fw-190s and Me-262s on it... so... I'm not sure that it counts? I can't think of another sim...

 

IL2 1946.

 

Frankly, the last thing TF5.0 needs now is more hype and no delivery as that's where we've been for the last four years.  It's coming.  Lets just wait for TFS to get it out the door and enjoy what they produce.  

[Mysticpuma]

6 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Yeah,  I can't remember seeing anything so I'm slightly confused as to; 

 

 

?

 

 

IL2 1946.

 

Frankly, the last thing TF5.0 needs now is more hype and no delivery as that's where we've been for the last four years.  It's coming.  Lets just wait for TFS to get it out the door and enjoy what they produce.  

 

They'll show it when they are ready but there have been a couple of glimpses at it, one was in the Wellington shots shared by Pattle ?

Edited March 27, 2020 by Mysticpuma

[Avimimus]

On 3/27/2020 at 12:46 PM, DD_Arthur said:

IL2 1946.

 

Frankly, the last thing TF5.0 needs now is more hype and no delivery as that's where we've been for the last four years.  It's coming.  Lets just wait for TFS to get it out the door and enjoy what they produce.  

 

1) Wasn't the 1946 map officially fictional?

 

2) Let me have my fun (also development schedules are unpredictable).

[DD_Arthur]

59 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

1) Wasn't the 1946 map officially fictional?

 

2) Let me have my fun (also development schedules are unpredictable).

 

Plenty of North Africa in IL2 1946 both 'official' which came with patch 4.08 and the modding guys

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,34475.0.html

 

I'm not trying to stop you having fun and I'm sure there will be features unique to TFS 5.0 but seven years of 'it's just around the corner' and an overhype of what is and what can be achieved has not served Team Fusion well.

In fact it rather came to a head with the release of Cliffs of Dover Blitz.

 https://steamcharts.com/app/754530

 

Whilst the release of Blitz edition was a technical milestone for Team Fusion, for the player base it was "is that it.....?"  and player numbers have collapsed since. 

 

 After examining the relevant thread,  claims of "Dynamic weather system that looks amazing."  would seem to be merely another example of some of the hyperbole that has surrounded the efforts of Team Fusion these last...many years.  

[Enceladus828]

Regarding some firsts in TF 5.0:

 

Has there ever been dust effects before?

Playable ships and AA guns (also going to be included in Collector vehicles for TC1)

 

Ships: (save for the VIIC U-boat, and IL-2 1946 mods and Silent Hunter 5, I don't believe any of these ships have been in a game before)

 

[Avimimus]

On 3/29/2020 at 6:39 PM, DD_Arthur said:

Plenty of North Africa in IL2 1946 both 'official' which came with patch 4.08 and the modding guys

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,34475.0.html

 

We are only talking about official releases (otherwise there are mods going back to SWOTL days)... and the 4.08 Africa and Italy maps were marked as 'online'. If I recall correctly this was done so as not to compete with the sequel to Cliffs of Dover (before Battle of Stalingrad was pushed to the front by 1C) ...and I suspect there were some other limitations (e.g. as 'online maps they were subscale and/or less detailed)?

[DD_Arthur]

14 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 If I recall correctly this was done so as not to compete with the sequel to Cliffs of Dover (before Battle of Stalingrad was pushed to the front by 1C) ..

 

I don't think you are recalling correctly.

 

The only evidence of a sequel to Cliff's was Luthier's RRG Studios which commissioned several models for a Korean war expansion. This obviously came to nothing.  After the initial release of Cliffs and the departure of Oleg 1C then spent several more millions trying to build an eastern front MMO out of the Cliffs engine before abandoning the project as a hopeless case. 

 

After the Cliffs debacle the really astonishing thing was that luckily for us 1C was still prepared to invest in combat flight sims and turned to the 777 Studios team to produce a commercial product.  

[Avimimus]

There were limitations on the ability for Team Daidalos to do Battle of Britain... and I believe the Mediterranean (although I'm less certain of that). There was also some discussion by Oleg of a possible Mediterranean expansion.This makes a lot of sense considering the number of assets that could be reused and the efforts to make tanks driveable (etc.)

 

Then Luthier (Ilya Shevchenko) announced that initial work was planned for a Korea sim (to be released around the same time as an independent project). In some interviews they also talked about how an Eastern Front sim in the Storm of War series of sims would be developed.

 

However, the latest reports had them move up the Eastern Front sim to be the highest priority, combined with driveable ground units (i.e. the MMO you speak of). It was originally Battle of Moscow. This then became Battle of Stalingrad, they ran out of funds, and 1C transferred the project over to the current Great Battles team (who used their own engine and rebuilt all of their models)...

 

So I believe something somewhat like Tobruk was actually briefly planned as the first sequel... it is just that the plans didn't survive the rough release of Cliffs of Dover. They were very optimistic going into the Cliffs of Dover release... including planning things like a flyable Cierva C.30 autogyro (which would be neat considering that about thirty were used by the French in the Battle of France, and they were also used to calibrate the British early warning radars)... so I'd be quite surprised if they didn't think the Mediterranean would be a viable expansion.

 

 

2007:

Rumours of North Africa and Korea are circulating on forums.

2009:
 

Quote

Q: Oleg, we have some intel that the next add-on after BoB will be the Mediterranean. Can you let us know how soon that’ll be released? And another even more important question: how soon after BoB can we expect the Eastern Front again, and what are you planning for it?

 

A: Your intel is nothing but a rumor. Even I myself don’t know whether it’ll be Africa or something else. Everything depends on the success of BoB on the market. Of course, no one has done a comprehensive MTO sim, save for a few unfinished or unsuccessful attempts. Eastern Front or the Pacific will perhaps be the most difficult to develop out of all options. So you should probably not expect to fly Soviet planes immediately after BoB.

 

Quote

Q: And now Oleg, please go into more details on your thoughts of the future of Storm of War compared to Il-2, given the potential you’ve built into the engine from the start.

 

A: Considering what I’ve said already, and given an initial commercial success of BoB, here’s what I see:

1. Some number of developers internationally that worked with MSFS, and probably a large part of them too, will convert to our side. This is especially to be expected considering the recent closing of Aces studio. So these add-on developers might just start making add-ons for Storm of War. I think this might even include jets, including modern ones. At the very least I would expect someone to do Vietnam, not to mention WWI. This should happen too. Generally WWI aircraft are easier to model and program, since they don’t have such complex aerodynamics, no retractable landing gear, propeller pitch, and other advanced devices. There’s also no radio, which means there’s no need to develop and record radio chatter.
2. Korea, in conjunction with RRG. Its development is now in background mode. Their team is now working with us finishing up planes for BoB, and also modeling ships.
3. Africa, Malta, USSR. These are most appealing choices for us. Even though we know for sure that the Pacific is the most interesting subject matter for the international market, besides Battle of Britain that is. Generally the Eastern Front is a bit easier for us to do since we have loads more data on it, and there’s less variety of vehicles and aircraft to model than all the other fronts.
4. Continuing combat around the English Channel, which will largely be made via expansions since we’ll already have the main map.
5. Cooperation with other teams to create other games (perhaps by selling the engine). For example, an MMO with controllable soldiers and submarines etc. Or even a space sim around planet surfaces with somewhat realistic physics 
6. Console variants with simplified features.

 

2010:

A print interview in 'Combat Aircraft magazine' June 2010 mentions North Africa alongside Korea

 

2013:

Quote

Oleg: It’s a very hard question to answer. We always talked about the Mediterranean and it was always in some plans somewhere. I guess it’s just that, for some subconscious reason, most of the team members were never too excited about it. There was always something else that drew more enthusiasm and pushed Africa just one step back.

 

Oleg: Clearly. There’s not too many directions a WWII simulation can go. We see a clear progression through the theaters over the next few years. We however don’t have a specific plan yet. It’s too early to decide whether the very next one is going to be Russia or Pacific or the Mediterranean. We’ll see how the first one goes, and we’ll see what the people most want.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Avimimus

[Dagwoodyt]

making something from nothing at all