S.E.5a Woes

[No.23_Triggers]

I agree - a Poll, coupled with some clear and concise points / evidence to support our request of the FM change is a great idea!

 

If we approach this with a level-headed and clear argument, respecting the hard work that went into the current FC S.E.5a, and we provide some good reasons as to why we think changes need to be made, and approach the Devs about it in a respectful way, hopefully the Devs will be willing to consider a change! 

 

I'll look into sending out a group PM for those that can help us come up with an 'argument', and then the rest of the community can voice their opinions via poll. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by US93_Larner

[HagarTheHorrible]

2 hours ago, No56_Badger85 said:

I'd support a poll to get devs to address any FM issues with the S.E.5a if we can gather some specific historical (or replica flight) technical data (with sources) to make the case.

 

Edit: US93_Larner had mentioned in the original post that the FC's S.E.5a "rudder deflection is absolutely woeful". Assuming he's talking about adverse yaw, this does actually appear to be a feature of the historical aircraft, unfortunately. The Vintage Aviator test pilot describes this aspect of the S.E.5a in this article: "... an excessive amount of adverse yaw is experienced. The adverse yaw is easily compensated for, by balancing aileron application with rudder and doesn’t prove to be a problem at all."

I reckon it has about a zero to no chance of that happening. We‘ll just have to accept it as it is.  The SE5a is probably correct, it is everything else that is wrong. I would even be prepared to trade having a slower Camel for an improved SE5a, but it just ain’t gonna happen.

 

Adverse yaw is the swing of the nose, away from the desired direction of turn, when rolling,  and isn’t anything to do with the rudder, except when correcting this behaviour.

5 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

I agree - a Poll, coupled with some clear and concise points / evidence to support our request of the FM change is a great idea!

 

If we approach this with a level-headed and clear argument, respecting the hard work that went into the current FC S.E.5a, and we provide some good reasons as to why we think changes need to be made, and approach the Devs about it in a respectful way, hopefully the Devs will be willing to consider a change! 

 

I'll look into sending out a group PM for those that can help us come up with an 'argument', and then the rest of the community can voice their opinions via poll. 

 

 

If memory serves, the Developers have all the information on the SE5a they need, in fact it is, I think, the best informed aircraft in the sim due to the copious amounts of data available.  The only way to improve it is to fudge it and that just isn’t going to happen.

 

In reality, everything else needs to come up to the FM standard of the SE5a.

Edited March 27, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[No.23_Triggers]

21 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

If memory serves, the Developers have all the information on the SE5a they need, in fact it is, I think, the best informed aircraft in the sim due to the copious amounts of data available.  The only way to improve it is to fudge it and that just isn’t going to happen.

 

In reality, everything else needs to come up to the FM standard of the SE5a.

Still worth a shot. WoFF has an S.E.5a that feels more 'true to life' VS. German scouts than here in FC - probably less historically on the money in terms of FM, but if it came down to choosing between the two I'd rather have a more realistic feeling engagement than a more realistic feeling plane vs. less realistic opponents...

[No.23_Starling]

37 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Still worth a shot. WoFF has an S.E.5a that feels more 'true to life' VS. German scouts than here in FC - probably less historically on the money in terms of FM, but if it came down to choosing between the two I'd rather have a more realistic feeling engagement than a more realistic feeling plane vs. less realistic opponents...

Hit the nail on the head. The DviiF couldn’t dive with a Spad IRL, but it can here. The DviiF was the greatest plane in the war so it should be amazing, even if inaccurate in places. The Camel should feel like a nimble bucking bronco. The SE5a should not feel like a dud.

[HagarTheHorrible]

The only thing I can think of, that might seem off, is the TYPICAL RPM of the engine.  The real Viper produces 200hp (2000 rpm) at takeoff (60 -65 mph), from what I understand.  If that is correct then I reckon, most of the time the Viper, in the game,  is producing well under 200hp, chugging away at 1600 rpm ish, in anything but a descent or “gathered” level flight.  My contention is that it should be operating closer to the 2000 rpm, most of the time,, it seems to only get to a max, level flight, RPM at about 120 - 130 mph and even then maxing out at 1900 rather than 2000

1 hour ago, US93_Larner said:

Still worth a shot. WoFF has an S.E.5a that feels more 'true to life' VS. German scouts than here in FC - probably less historically on the money in terms of FM, but if it came down to choosing between the two I'd rather have a more realistic feeling engagement than a more realistic feeling plane vs. less realistic opponents...

 

Absolutely, couldn’t agree more.

Edited March 27, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[emely]

On 3/26/2020 at 7:45 PM, SeaW0lf said:

I guess we need engine and prop variants for the SE5as

Very valuable opinion of the pilot Dr1 in this thread)) Do you not understand that there is nothing to talk with people like you?  There is one pilot in the world who flies on Dr1, and whom I respect as an ailot, is Etzel from Austria.  I'm not even going to greet the rest.  So about SeVa, leave your opinion to yourself, baby ?

[No.23_Triggers]

4 hours ago, emely said:

Very valuable opinion of the pilot Dr1 in this thread)) Do you not understand that there is nothing to talk with people like you?  There is one pilot in the world who flies on Dr1, and whom I respect as an ailot, is Etzel from Austria.  I'm not even going to greet the rest.  So about SeVa, leave your opinion to yourself, baby ?

I don't see any problem with a Dr.I pilot having an opinion on the S.E's FM. Anyway, he's right - engine and prop variants for S.E would be a great addition. 

[ST_Catchov]

4 hours ago, emely said:

Very valuable opinion of the pilot Dr1 in this thread)) Do you not understand that there is nothing to talk with people like you?  There is one pilot in the world who flies on Dr1, and whom I respect as an ailot, is Etzel from Austria.  I'm not even going to greet the rest.  So about SeVa, leave your opinion to yourself, baby ?

 

I have no idea what you're talking about? 

 

Anyway, back on topic, as it currently stands in FC, the best option for Se5a pilots is to load their Webley, release the safety catch and blow their big toes off. Then either get a steamer back to Blighty or be court martialled and shot for cowardice. 

 

Or fix it to somewhat resemble what it is supposed to be. I don't know about requesting different props and engines. That's asking too much probably. I'd be happy if the devs just corrected the Viper version we've got so it doesn't bleed revs so rapidly and it could dive at 200 mph without falling apart.

[No.23_Triggers]

23 minutes ago, catchov said:

Or fix it to somewhat resemble what it is supposed to be. I don't know about requesting different props and engines. That's asking too much probably. I'd be happy if the devs just corrected the Viper version we've got so it doesn't bleed revs so rapidly and it could dive at 200 mph without falling apart.

That's definitely the realistic goal...I use the term realistic loosely...

 

But what do we say, fellas? How about that Poll? And what's the goal - to reinstate the old S.E.5a FM? 

Edited March 28, 2020 by US93_Larner

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, catchov said:

it doesn't bleed revs so rapidly

There is indeed something odd in general that prop rpm drop that much in a climb. Has anyone real life experience with something like that happening? Ground revs are maybe OTOH 10% lower, but in flight, I can‘t recall any rpm drop to speak of when just climbing.

 

I think propeller modelling is somewhat off in general, at least for fixed pitch ones.

 

Also, in the video link posted above (Se5 pilot interview), the aircraft was described as remarkably solid. Not really what we have, although it is not like in RoF anymore.

 

What the pilot does say is the huge increase in drag when flying at high AoA (landing), in this sense I think the FM in FC is reasonable. A problem I see more in the FM not being really precise in resulting AoA vs trim/airspeed. I‘m referring to the numerous flaps related discussions we have here. Hence I‘m nor sure if it would work by giving the Se5 the old FM parameters. I assume we‘d still have a different result.

[HagarTheHorrible]

H.A.A, flying the SE5a

 

This gives a good idea of flying the SE5a, with mentions about rpm’s at various stages.  Certainly it isn’t comprehensive and is open to interpretation, but as the real example of the aircraft in game it is helpful (200hp Viper.  TVAL’s only have 180hp engines).  Notably, the pilot says that after takeoff he reduces the rpm’s to 1900 to save on engine wear, he doesn’t say that 1900 rpm is the max rpm at best level flight speed.  The question I have is the 1700 rpm at takeoff.  I don’t know if this is max throttle or whether the rpm’s increase, at the same throttle setting, whether fully open, or not, as the aircraft gathers speed to it’s lift off speed (60-65 mph) ?

 

As an aside, it is also worth noting the difference between the horizon, in level flight (level autopilot engaged) and the direction the Aldis gunsight is pointing in.  It is quite some distance behind the direction of travel, meaning that, when shooting, the SE5a needs to pull significantly more angles to get sights on target, with a resultant higher angle of attack, increase in drag and resultant loss of speed, but then I’ve said that a thousand times, so nothing new to report there. (My solution was to have an extremely long vertical harmonisation, maybe several thousand yards, but notify it as a normal range in the aircraft setup page. Personally, I don’t care what direction the A.I shoot in as an excuse to why it can’t be modified.

Edited March 28, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[ZachariasX]

To me it sounds that on the ramp, the engine is barely able to make 1700 rpm. But as soon as you have airspeed, rpm goes up to at least 2000 rpm. This means any climb you do in an SE5a should give you easily 1800 rpm, even steep climbs, but my guess is more like 1900. If we don't get that in game, then propeller torque is off.

 

But is seems that I have to correct myself regarding overrev damage: (I quote from your link)

"...However, engine rpm must be constantly monitored as an over speed cannot be supported – sever engine damage would result ..."

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

https://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/se-5a-reproduction/flying-se5a

 

180 HS - 120 mph @ 15000 ft ?

[HagarTheHorrible]

Maybe, what we actually have in FC, is a sheep in wolves clothing.  Maybe we actually have an SE5 in the guise of an SE5a. ?

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

To me it sounds that on the ramp, the engine is barely able to make 1700 rpm. But as soon as you have airspeed, rpm goes up to at least 2000 rpm. This means any climb you do in an SE5a should give you easily 1800 rpm, even steep climbs, but my guess is more like 1900. If we don't get that in game, then propeller torque is off.

 

But is seems that I have to correct myself regarding overrev damage: (I quote from your link)

"...However, engine rpm must be constantly monitored as an over speed cannot be supported – sever engine damage would result ..."

 

Which maybe brings us back, full circle, to the glass engine of early RoF.  The question is, how easy, or difficult, was it to take the engine past 2300 ?  If memory serves, it was all to easy to over rev the engine, during a dive, with the early RoF SE5a, unless you throttled right back.  I can’t quite square the circle, in my own head, about how it would be possible to dive at high speed, if the engine is so quick to gain revs over and above 2000rpm, maybe the compression ratio for the engine, in game,  is wrong ?

[No.23_Starling]

Would it be worth contacting the Shuttleworth Collection on the RPM and climb data? I’m pretty sure their example has a Viper 

[No.23_Triggers]

1 hour ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Maybe, what we actually have in FC, is a sheep in wolves clothing.  Maybe we actually have an SE5 in the guise of an SE5a. ?

Which maybe brings us back, full circle, to the glass engine of early RoF.  The question is, how easy, or difficult, was it to take the engine past 2300 ?  If memory serves, it was all to easy to over rev the engine, during a dive, with the early RoF SE5a, unless you throttled right back.  I can’t quite square the circle, in my own head, about how it would be possible to dive at high speed, if the engine is so quick to gain revs over and above 2000rpm, maybe the compression ratio for the engine, in game,  is wrong ?

I'm guessing not so easy, judging by pilot accounts claiming they used to dive on EA with their engine full on. But, of course, that begs the question of how far down was a typical bounce in meters? 200? 500? 600? 1000? I bet there are some copies of combat reports out there that we could get a rough estimate from....
 

 

1 hour ago, No56_Waggaz said:

Would it be worth contacting the Shuttleworth Collection on the RPM and climb data? I’m pretty sure their example has a Viper 

Absolutely! And yes, their example has a viper. Interestingly, it also used to have a Hisso in the 70s IIRC...wouldn't it be good if they had data on both? 
 

Edited March 28, 2020 by US93_Larner

[SeaW0lf]

56 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

I'm guessing not so easy, judging by pilot accounts claiming they used to dive on EA with their engine full on.  

 

That happens with rotaries as well. IIRC, I've seen several book accounts of diving 'almost vertically' with full throttle in rotary planes. I always thought that those glass engines are off, since almost every plane seizes the engine in fairly shallow dives in ROF. Or then the anecdotal accounts are exaggerated.

 

Perhaps some of the mechanics of these current replicas could explain how these engines really work.

[Talisman]

Good thread folks.  Thank you.  My thoughts are that a poll is not likely to cut much ice with the developers at the moment.  However, technical details and evidence might just tip the balance towards a fair hearing from the dev team.

 

Looks like the apparent rpm shortfall could be one of the reasons for the SE5a woes.

 

Thanks again. 

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[javelina]

Wow, glad I came across this thread.  I bought FC as part of the stay at home sale.  Had been looking forward to flying WWI.  In particular, the SE5a, which is my favorite WWI bird.  Just love the look of her. 

 

Hard to explain, but this bird just doesn't feel right.  I know it wasn't a "wonder bird", and I'm not expecting to have something invisible.  It feels like a dog on how quickly it loses energy.  Plus, its most difficult to hit anything with guns and my rudder control.  But if that's how it is with WWI birds, ok.  I've tried a few tweaks via the curves, but it doesn't seem right.  By no means am I a FM expert, so if this is the way the SE5a fly's in RL, I'm very disappointed.  So I presume I just have to level set and adjust, (and have a wing-man even with a 1 off encounter).  ?

 

I've only had FC for a few days, and have only flown the SE5a to date (because I love that bird).  ?   

 

To all, stay safe and be well!

 

-Jav

[J2_Trupobaw]

Reading this thread, I cannot help the feeling that current S.E.5.a (what we are stuck with, as opposed to what we believe we should have) behaves a lot like Pfalz D.IIIa:
-Good stable diver
-Very stable gun platform
-Poor energy retention, deathtrap in prolonged fight
-In addition, Pfalz has good initial turn while S.E.5 climbs well and eventually reaches good horisontal speeds. 
(All in all, it makes S.E. look like historical Pfalz D.XII (not the fantasy one form RoF)).

I've had something of success using the D.IIIa in its historial role of as top cover dive hunter - either diving onto targets of opportunity in furballs, or diving onto planes that are coming into / running from furballs, finishing target off then getting away from the fight before enemies notice how exposed I am. It is the historical role assigned to Pfalzes in JGI by MvR (in fact, it was job description of Jasta 10) and I imagine the historical S.E.5 / Camel teamups worked like that. For safety, Pfalz cannot stand in fight for long, should not visit situations where there are free enemies to react to his pass,  and should use superior dive / sturdy rear fuselage to distance the pilot from fight before he even thinks of turning back. I suppose with S.E.5 we should replace rear fuselage with "good escape speed once you archive it".

Of course, when people below you are randoms flying for the same side rather than actual teammates, the line between top cover and kill stealing is fine one. But even sticking to enemies who are getting upper hand, or are going to succesfuly disengage,  there is plenty kills to be had.

This does not solve problem of S.E. flying onto unengaged enemies. In Pfalz, the answer is GTFO if you can. I suppose it's the same for S.E.

 

EDIT: I suppose what also needs to be done is solid team research against German types, with emphasis on disengagement techniques. See what works and what does not, which situations are non-survivable and should not be entered.

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by J2_Trupobaw

[ST_Catchov]

20 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

 

But what do we say, fellas? How about that Poll? And what's the goal - to reinstate the old S.E.5a FM? 

 

It may be a waste of time (given the devs attitude) …. but why the hell not! What have we got to lose! Plenty of people self-isolating and social-distancing. What else is there to do?  Except me, I'm moving house interstate tomorrow in the middle of this bloody plague thing. I have no choice. I don't know when I'll be reconnected.

 

I'd rather like the old FM but without the glass engine. But I'd be happy with anything other than what we've got. As long as it's not worse, I hasten to add. Devs take note.

 

 

[No.23_Starling]

Does anyone have a link to the Vintage Aviator content where they pitted their SE against their Dv? I remember them saying their SE easily turned with the Dv. I think it might have been a video?

[HagarTheHorrible]

1 hour ago, No56_Waggaz said:

Does anyone have a link to the Vintage Aviator content where they pitted their SE against their Dv? I remember them saying their SE easily turned with the Dv. I think it might have been a video?

 

I was looking for that program as well, if memory serves, it didn't really add an awful lot though, apart from saying that Se5a was superior and that the it found no difficulty in dominating the fight but I don't think it went into details of as to why.  If you really need to find it, it might be worth a search of the RoF forums though.  The aerial footage though was quite tame, which some on the RoF forums disparaged, but it has to be remembered that for the actual recording of in-flight shots they needed a third aircraft so would have been even more limited in manouver than they already were.  The experienced pilots from the team, even if limited in what they could do with the aircraft, would have had a very good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each aircraft to be able to fill in any gaps.  It also has to be considered that in RoF/FC, we are probably far more adventerous in what we expect of the aircraft, with little thought for the stresses and strains on aircraft and body.  When your life is on the line, and your life depends on a not very well understood collection of bits of string and canvas, probably with personal experience of other, or even your own, aircraft breaking up in mid air, being adventerous is not maybe at the forefront of a pilots mind.

 

 

 

If we do try and contact the Shuttleworth collection, with an Email forwarded to either Andy Sephton or the current SE5a display pilot, or both, what questions do we need to ask specifically ?

 

I think we'll only have one chance at this, if at all, so we need to make sure we get the most pertiment question asked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[DD_Arthur]

4 hours ago, No56_Waggaz said:

Does anyone have a link to the Vintage Aviator content where they pitted their SE against their Dv? I remember them saying their SE easily turned with the Dv. I think it might have been a video?

 

I remember that.  I think it might be buried somewhere in this lot.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/HAFUVideo/videos

 

Had a brief look but theres just acres of this stuff.  Lucky Kiwi's

[No.23_Starling]

I've been digging back through this debate from the RoF days. It looks like the devs did an excellent job on the SE5a model when they revised it, and that the problem probably isn't with her, rather with the DVa and D.III. https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/29818-se5a-and-alb-dva-ase-about-face/page-3

 

From EricForster:

 

"Since the Viper engine is ungeared, the SE5a pulls the highest prop-RPM in the sim.

Its acceleration from 150-200 km/h is 96.1% of that of the SPAD XIII, and its top speed, of course, is higher than the SPAD's. The acceleration from 120-150 is only 83.1% of the SPAD XIII, but we're talking about dropping 1.3 seconds only there. All these numbers are taken from actual testing in the sim. It takes the XIII 36.0 seconds to accelerate from 120-200 km/h, while it takes the SE5a 38.5 seconds (IAS at 100 meters ASL). From 150-200, the numbers are much closer: 29.6 for the XIII and 30.8 for the SE5a. This tells me that the prop pitch is such that it's hitting the "sweet spot" at higher speeds. It is probably accelerating more quickly than the XIII in the 180-200 range.

I am not clear on why anyone would ever fly the SE5a slower than 150 km/h, except when taking off or landing. While 150 km/h is not its "best climb," it is extremely efficient when climbing at this speed, comparing favorably to all other aircraft but the SPADs and the D.VIIF.

If anyone is interested, I'll test the acceleration numbers at higher altitudes, but I'll hazard a guess that it's foolish to wallow about in the Se5a. I'll conjecture that it's likely not a problem with the SE5a flight model, but with the D.Va or (worst of all) the Pfalz D.IIIa, in which you can wallow to your heart's content without penalty.

The SE5a also decelerates at the lowest rate of any aircraft in the sim when leveling off following a dive.

Cheers,
E"

 

This is followed by Devere's observation on the Dva RPM performance:

 

"...ts the albi/pfalz that are more broken. With what I watched in those tracks, assuming the real albi did have a faster top speed, with that in game prop hang, and spin free FM there is no way MVR would have called the albi lousy, and the fokker simply would not have been needed.

The Mercedes engine deffo needs looking into. As we already know it was pre-leaned for performance at altitude yet it develops its maximum power across the board from take off. More so, the in game engine actually revs at just under 1500rpm. From my understanding both the prop and engine were designed to give maximum power at 1400rpm.

When you watch the tracks, even in the tightest of turns, and climbs, the engine drops just below 1400rpm. So it never really drops below its maximum rated output, and it regains those lost rpm in seconds. I also noticed in some instances, it actually started regaining RPm while vertical, meaning as soon as you level out, its producing its max power. Basically it feels like its fitted with fuel injectors.

This would possibly explain the helicopter like prop hang and its seeming lack of energy bleed, in comparison to the SE5a. Which does drop below its maximum RPM by quite a margin and takes a considerable while to regain them. This may well be the reason why there is no 'wallow' in the albi as noted by ericforster.

The only head scratcher I have left, is the Fokker D7. It has the same Mercedes, and the spin free FM, and is actually faster, yet it is nowhere near as deadly or unbelievable as the albi, so why not?"

 

Has anyone played with the RPM performance on the FC Albie? I wonder whether this is the cause of our pain, and maybe worth investigation.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to assume that our SE5a has a prop pitch set for high-speed acceleration and stop BnZing to the point of stall, as clearly I'm going to struggle to regain that energy in the dive back down. This will mean me learning new tactics, possibly high-speed passes and wide sweeping turns with high-deflection aiming.

 

 

 

[HagarTheHorrible]

Still doesn't explain why the Viper doesn't reach 2000 rpm, unless going down hill. 

 

Does the Viper, in RoF, have a higher top end rpm than in FC, in level flight ?  If it doesn't get to 2000 rpm presumably it doesn't output 200hp ?  I suppose the question I have is, should the engine be producing 2000rpm, or close to, over a wider range of speeds, rather than just top ending at 1900'ish between 120 and 130 mph ?

[SeaW0lf]

34 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Does the Viper, in RoF, have a higher top end rpm than in FC, in level flight ?  If it doesn't get to 2000 rpm presumably it doesn't output 200hp?

 

I got to 1930/1940rpm in ROF at sea level. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by SeaW0lf

[HagarTheHorrible]

2 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

I got to 1930/1940rpm in ROF at sea level. 

 

Yes it can get close to 2000, if not actually, however you need to be going above 120 mph if not  nearer 130.  All of the WW 1 aircraft that I had a quick look at were very good at retaining their max RPM and if they lost any it was in the order of 100 rpm, more or less, while the SE5a will often find itself scrabbling around at the 1600 mark. It is easy to see why the Spad is superior achieving and more importantly retaining rev's above or around the 2000 mark.  In the Bristol scout video, posted in these forums  the pilot claims that "adding 100 rpm improved engine performance 30% and increased climb rate from 400 to almost 800 FPM", now that might not be directly applicable to the SE5a but it will still hold some corollatory comparison.  Given that all the aircraft in FC have fixed pitch propellers, why is it that the SE5a seems to be so adversely effected by it's propeller while the others seem to manage to maintain their best RPM's more consistantly ?   I do think I know why, at least in part.  The SE5a is modelled more correctly while everything else wasn't revised to the same standard, after the work and new technical information became available for the SE.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

Some posts in this thread be-moan the lack of punch from the Lewis and Vickers combo.  Just out of interest, how are we all sighting with the SE5a?  A while back I started using the sight on the Vickers (rather than the Aldis) as my default view and I think my accuracy has improved as a result.  It feels a bit weird flying in the "left seat" initially, but you get used to it.

[=IRFC=NakedSquirrel]

FC requires a bit more discipline and care with BnZ than RoF does because of the gun accuracy.  You can get sniped from 500m.

 

Understand the speed difference of the SPAD or Se5 vs the DVII is only ~20kph  and the F matches the Se5a's speed at around 3000m

 

The big advantage the SPAD and Se5a have is their ability to out dive anything else in the sky.  Not just in some shallow putz of a dive, but you can point the Se5a 90 degrees down straight at the earth and not kill the engine. (Just be careful when you pull up)

 

So, in general, the best practice to Se5a driving is to make your slashing attacks, and at the first whim of maybe slightly losing advantage over your opponent to engage the warp drive and get out of there.  As always with boom and zoom It's best to fly in a pack. 

 

The old Se5a FM from the early RoF days didn't have that ability because the infamous glass engine would over-rev and break.  The Se5a we have in FC will lose its wings before you break the engine.

 

 

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

18 hours ago, catchov said:

It may be a waste of time (given the devs attitude)

What, I can't hear you.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

44 minutes ago, =CfC=FatherTed said:

Some posts in this thread be-moan the lack of punch from the Lewis and Vickers combo.  Just out of interest, how are we all sighting with the SE5a?  A while back I started using the sight on the Vickers (rather than the Aldis) as my default view and I think my accuracy has improved as a result.  It feels a bit weird flying in the "left seat" initially, but you get used to it.

 

Line up on the Vickers sight and you will see a dramatic increase in your accuracy.  I tried using the "ring", the aldis; but when I lined up with the vickers I started annihilating people.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

Albert Ball, in his "day job" flew an SE5a with his squadron, but when he wanted to hunt on his own, he took a Nieuport 17 (I think) -  so maybe that says something about the usefulness of the SE as a lone-wolf machine IRL

 

[No.23_Starling]

44 minutes ago, =CfC=FatherTed said:

Albert Ball, in his "day job" flew an SE5a with his squadron, but when he wanted to hunt on his own, he took a Nieuport 17 (I think) -  so maybe that says something about the usefulness of the SE as a lone-wolf machine IRL

 

Yes but McCudden regular hunted very successfully with his and Ball flew the SE5 vanilla in its infancy and his tactics were not subtle. Ball’s tactics were seen more a berserker than cunning hunter so the nimble N17 was more his bag. McCudden survived his combats often using the SE’s speed to disengage safely only to die in an accident.

[J2_Trupobaw]

1 hour ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

 

Line up on the Vickers sight and you will see a dramatic increase in your accuracy.  I tried using the "ring", the aldis; but when I lined up with the vickers I started annihilating people.

This. OMG, this.

You guys have goaded me to grab an S.E.5.a and join 1PL for an evening of test flying. The result was 6 kills and no deaths for me. I didn't try to turn her into Spad imitation, I fly her like Albie/Pfalz. She rolls, she prophangs, she follows the shifting target precisely through dive and prophang with slight touch of rudder, and once she's lined up she annihilates planes.

I'm in love.
Thanks for making me try her.
 

 

[No.23_Starling]

1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

This. OMG, this.

You guys have goaded me to grab an S.E.5.a and join 1PL for an evening of test flying. The result was 6 kills and no deaths for me. I didn't try to turn her into Spad imitation, I fly her like Albie/Pfalz. She rolls, she prophangs, she follows the shifting target precisely through dive and prophang with slight touch of rudder, and once she's lined up she annihilates planes.

I'm in love.
Thanks for making me try her.
 

 

Looking at the stats, half those kills were 2 seaters (the SE should be a good interceptor). Of the 3 scout kills, how many were 1 v 1 without height advantage?

im going to try using the Lewis sight tomorrow 

[emely]

9 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

I got to 1930/1940rpm in ROF at sea level. 

Wolf, I told you not fair words in this thread.  I'm sorry.  I apologize .  This was done on old emotions.  If you want to go with you to a duel on any weapon.  If not - here is my hand, shake it and we will fly in the same sky.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

2 hours ago, No56_Waggaz said:

im going to try using the Lewis sight tomorrow 

 

To the pit with you, you tilt-gunning bastard!

[J5_HellCat_]

I fought an  S.E.5.a on the deck tonight that kept firing up at me whenever I pulled up and over and that's exactly what I was thinking  "you tilt-gunning bastard!" LOL 

Lot's of good fight's tonight with SE's ...... S~

[No.23_Triggers]

I don't know if this is The S.E.5a vs D.VIi video that was mentioned, but this clip has great footage of an S.E. in a sustained turn with a D.VII