Mandatory electric shocks

[HagarTheHorrible]

I was thinking about joysticks and the thread about "The perfect FFB joystick" today for no apparent reason apart from bemoaning the "I want it real" brigade and I really thought that the perfect joystick really should have a mandatory ability to send out electric shocks, just like those silly reaction games.  It should be as essential as a fire button for any serious combat flight sim enthusiast.

 

 

 

 

No pain, no gain. 

 

There should be a certain nervousness about entering the combat arena an incentive to stay sharp, stay alive,, a forfeit for getting shot down or wounded  other than simply hitting "re-fly".

 

Just ask yourself  "How steady would your aim be at that target in front be if you had a nervous feeling someone was following you", "How long would you stay target fixated firing round after round into that dam'd brick sh*t house of a bomber constantly aware that the cavalry might have you in turn in their sights"?

Edited April 23, 2014 by HagarTheHorrible

[HagarTheHorrible]

"It's not so much the jolt itself - as the fear and tension that the anticipation creates. And that's half the fun of it. Electrifying, hair-raising stuff."

 

From the blurb, product description.

[Sandhill]

REAL pain would be cash...the possibilities boggle...ante for a new life. Pay for your ordinance, fuel, repairs even.  Payouts for accomplishments both long term (I think that I read just last night that at least some Guards squadrons got one and a half times pay) and short term - kill a plane, kill a train, a tank, your PayPal account grows and grows.  On second thought, sounds a bit too much like Second Life.  I'm in for the shocks.

[HagarTheHorrible]

I'm really surprised that you guys don't see the awesomeness of this idea as a serious addition to flying combat sims.  Many of you are exacting in your demands for realism down to the last detail, but ultimately it is all for nought if virtual pilots fly in an unrealistic manner.

 

http://youtu.be/PvJjzduU9rs

 

Everyone moans about unrealistic behaviour online because there isn't any forfeit for being wounded or killed and as such everyone fly's without due consideration for self.  This would be that solution, everyone could moan, but for a different reason.  I know the base idea, an electric shock game, is a stupid, million miles away from what we do, but applied properly it could have a profound behavioural change on the way virtual pilots fly with mild shocks for light wounds, bigger shocks for more serious hurt etc, it could even have a throbbing pulse mode that gradually gets stronger as a wound becomes more serious.  Imagine trying to fly back to home territory as doing so becomes progressively more difficult.

[SeaQuark]

It's an interesting idea.... but rather horrifying to me, to be honest.

 

Ultimately most people play flight simulators for pleasure, entertainment, relaxation, or out of historical interest. Doing this would turn your simulator session into a high-stress activity. It might be neat to try it once or twice for the novelty, but players will spend many hours flying, and the cumulative effects of a pain-threatening activity (even mild pain) could even be psychologically damaging, which could bleed into your personal life. It's even a little sadistic-- with the knowledge that by shooting down another plane, you will be inflicting physical pain on another player!

 

Simulated dogfighting like this would be different from other potentially "harmful" activities (like many sports), since instead of a risk of pain / injury over time, you would be almost certain to receive these shocks on a regular basis. Think about how many times you've been shot down, or botched a landing and crashed. Plus you do not get the benefit of exercise / building physical stamina.

 

This would also be impractical to implement on any reasonable scale for a multiplayer game. As far as encouraging more realistic playing styles, there are better, more mild punishments that could be implemented: for example, your stats could be reset every time your pilot was killed, or maybe just a specific "killstreak" stat would be reset.

[Finkeren]

It's an interesting idea for sure. Not something I'd need myself, as I very easily immerse myself in most games, trying to survive as best I can.

 

What I'm thinking is: Won't people soon get used to the little jolt and want to ramp it up? Soon we might have people wiring up their nipples to a car battery just to keep the tension up, and who knows where it goes from there?

 

I'm partly joking, but many people seem to be drawn towards these kinds of extremes, often in search of some kind of "real" experience. If by some method it was posible for our minds to be momentarily transfered to the body of a real life WW2 pilot, getting the absolute complete experience of what air combat was really like but without the risk of actually dying, wouldn't most of us want to try that out? Even though you knew you'd risk ending your "session" with the completely real experience of a cannon sheel ripping out your guts or burning to death trapped in a crashed aircraft?

Edited April 27, 2014 by Finkeren

[HagarTheHorrible]

It's an interesting idea.... but rather horrifying to me, to be honest.

 

Ultimately most people play flight simulators for pleasure, entertainment, relaxation, or out of historical interest. Doing this would turn your simulator session into a high-stress activity. It might be neat to try it once or twice for the novelty, but players will spend many hours flying, and the cumulative effects of a pain-threatening activity (even mild pain) could even be psychologically damaging, which could bleed into your personal life. It's even a little sadistic-- with the knowledge that by shooting down another plane, you will be inflicting physical pain on another player!

 

Simulated dogfighting like this would be different from other potentially "harmful" activities (like many sports), since instead of a risk of pain / injury over time, you would be almost certain to receive these shocks on a regular basis. Think about how many times you've been shot down, or botched a landing and crashed. Plus you do not get the benefit of exercise / building physical stamina.

 

This would also be impractical to implement on any reasonable scale for a multiplayer game. As far as encouraging more realistic playing styles, there are better, more mild punishments that could be implemented: for example, your stats could be reset every time your pilot was killed, or maybe just a specific "killstreak" stat would be reset.

 

 

It's an interesting idea for sure. Not something I'd need myself, as I very easily immerse myself in most games, trying to survive as best I can.

 

What I'm thinking is: Won't people soon get used to the little jolt and want to ramp it up? Soon we might have people wiring up their nipples to a car battery just to keep the tension up, and who knows where it goes from there?

 

I'm partly joking, but many people seem to be drawn towards these kinds of extremes, often in search of some kind of "real" experience. If by some method it was posible for our minds to be momentarily transfered to the body of a real life WW2 pilot, getting the absolute complete experience of what air combat was really like but without the risk of actually dying, wouldn't most of us want to try that out? Even though you knew you'd risk ending your "session" with the completely real experience of a cannon sheel ripping out your guts or burning to death trapped in a crashed aircraft?

 

There are a lot of people out there that swear by FFB, but there are also lots who think it is just a bit of a gimmick.  Getting an electric shock could certainly be considered in the same light.  Does it have to bust your balls (or your nipples, if that's your poison), no it doesn't, although watching that video was certainly fun.  However what it does do is start to make people aware of themselves, that there is a consequence and if that leads to more realistic behaviour patterns during on-line combat then it would be a real leap forward in terms of simulation.  Would it have to be enabled for every game, no, but those wanting to fly "full real" or towards the more intense end of combat flight simming might consider it a bit of a must have.

 

Just imagine a few scenarios.  Attacking a big bomber formation, the intensity of thought, trepidation.  You certainly would think twice about saddling up on thier six and banging away with no regard for injury or death or even what happened 10 seconds hence.  Imagine being injured, do you fight to the bitter end, battling a pulsing, possibly intensifying, electric shock through your hand, does it distract you, does it ruin your aim, do you show courage in the face of adversity or do you punch out ?  Your aircraft is damaged, the risk of injury or death more likely, do you head for the hills, or do you continue, as now with little thought for the ramifications, if you are the attacker, do you continue to pursue the stricken aircraft with all the implications for positional advantage or situational awareness ?  Does Flak continue to simply be just an annoying irrelevance or does it become something to be aware of, were it's positioned so that it can be avoided, do you really feel so confident attacking that enemy airfield now ?

[HagarTheHorrible]

I have to confess I haven't actually played one of those "Shock" games, so in the interest of research I've bought one of Ebay for a couple of quid.  I know I can't, or don't have the abilities to hook it up to the game but I wanted to try it and see what it's like anyway, if it's possible to modify the shock games hand grip to simply being a couple of sticky backed metallic strips that could be applied to a typical joystick handle.

 

I'm not saying I'm a glutton for punishment, it's just that if I'd been better at tying knots my sexual history might have been far more varied, if you know what I mean.

[StG2_Manfred]

Microsoft already uses electro shocks 

 
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9ttBt-4vWo

[HagarTheHorrible]

I'm pretty sure that most of those that think Force Feedback is a gimmick either haven't tried it or have only used a 'rumble' type stick.

True Force Feedback, where the stick stiffens or loosens depending on air-speed, cannot be considered a gimmick since that is how real aircraft controls operate.

Adding electric shocks to the stick might be something that some people find appealing, but since no manufacturer is willing to put a new Force Feedback stick into the market I can't see this idea taking off.

The G940 might be far from perfect but I really would struggle to enjoy RoF/BoS half as much without it. My wet dream is for someone to design a really top of the range, affordable, mass market, FFB stick with optional stick extensions of differing sizes. Edited April 28, 2014 by HagarTheHorrible

[=LD=Hethwill]

The search for... body feedback is one of the "gaming industry" graals, after all one of the most cool things in sci-fi is a holodeck

 

But, watching Man of War a while ago I'm sure some of you know about this fellow.

 

http://youtu.be/rKLV4rpxfuE?t=15m19s

 

S!