Best climb speed

[ITAF_Airone1989]

I'm collecting some data for each planes, could somebody helps me with best climb speed per airplane?

I know generally fighters have it around 280km/h, and stuka 240km/h, but not idea about others..

 

Thank you a lot!

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

You can look in pilot notes of each plane , but rule of thumb for small light aeroplane is 1.4 of stalling speed if I remember correctly. As I see it can be used for warbirds. Plus it always be some degree of change as you loose weight or climb higher.

Finding diagrams of TD (total drag) vs speed would be extremely helpful. Sorry I do not help much .

Edited March 5, 2020 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[ITAF_Airone1989]

 

4 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

 for small light aeroplane is 1.4 of stalling speed if I remember correctly. 

Thank you, I will use this! 

 

I wonder if it's the same for bombers

[postman475]

I know early 109s best climb rate is around 270 kph, and have its 150-75 mph but have yet to confirm that. I'm searching for optimal climb rates as well

[TAIPAN_]

Sorry to revive a slightly old thread but I think we're looking for the same thing. I'm also finding data to put in my QRH "quick reference handbook" as part of learning to fly each plane and including climb speed.

 

I can't see best climb speed in the aircraft details/specs shown in the game. But it seems the they do have the best climb speed stored somewhere.

 

When you fly career missions, the technochat tells you what speed to fly at. Does anyone know if we can open/extract the data technochat is using? Or is it published anywhere?

 

Alternatively we would have to fly a dummy  mission for each plane and record what technochat says.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I thought it was around the best glide slope speed as that's the best lift/drag from the air frame

Edited May 20, 2020 by driftaholic

[TAIPAN_]

11 hours ago, driftaholic said:

I thought it was around the best glide slope speed as that's the best lift/drag from the air frame

 

I've also heard something like 1.4 times stall speed.

 

But for each aircraft there is a more specific number, because there's other factors such as boost etc.

Since technochat specifies it, there must be some data behind it.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I only heard approach speed is stall speed X 1.3. In a video on Greg's airplanes and Automobiles YouTube channel discussing the D9 and aerodynamics he states the best glide slope speed has a correlational to climb speed. I'll try to find it.

 

I didn't find it though I did find a place that states it's right at the best turn speed, which makes sense. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by driftaholic

[flagdjmetcher]

On 5/21/2020 at 6:38 AM, VR-DriftaholiC said:

I only heard approach speed is stall speed X 1.3. In a video on Greg's airplanes and Automobiles YouTube channel discussing the D9 and aerodynamics he states the best glide slope speed has a correlational to climb speed. I'll try to find it.

 

I didn't find it though I did find a place that states it's right at the best turn speed, which makes sense. 

 

There was an interesting comments thread on that video where an aerodynamics guy pointed out that the correlation between turn speed and climb speed was kind of coincidental due to the typical range of power/weight ratios for ww2, and that the correlation didn't hold up for much higher or lower p/w ratios (which makes me wonder about bombers, which then makes me wonder if anyone bothered measuring corner speed for them).  Anyway, I can't remember which video either - it was either the FW190 series or the P47 one.  Just watch them all - it'll be worth it.

[busdriver]

On 5/20/2020 at 3:38 PM, VR-DriftaholiC said:

I didn't find it though I did find a place that states it's right at the best turn speed, which makes sense.

 

This is a curious turn of phrase "best turn speed." Now that we have a digital g meter, take any fighter you want, fly around at ~270 kph (or ~170 mph), turn on the recorder and pull the tightest level turn you can. If you have TacView, you can review the ACMI file and note the turn rate, radius, and g as you maneuver. I'll bet you didn't come close to GLOC with an entry airspeed of ~270 kph. Now reset your parameters, this time accelerate to ~400 kph (~250 mph), turn on the recorder, and pull the tightest level turn you can. Again, if you have TacView, you will find your turn rate is much higher while the turn radius is only slightly larger in the second trial. You probably experienced some gray out if not flat out GLOC in the second trial.

 

In the RL fighter pilot community, the slowest speed where you can pull the maximum g is known as Corner Velocity. In the sim, the GLOC model effectively limits us to a maximum of ~6 g where airplanes might be 8 to 10 g. What a 1GCCFP should infer is a nominal GLOC Corner Velocity will be somewhere around 400 kph (250 mph) while an airplane's actual Corner Velocity is a little higher. 

 

So...what's this notion of "best turn speed?"

 

 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Would it then be called the best sustained turn speed? This should coincide with the point where lift, drag, and available power all meet the is optimal to climb. I'm no expert, just what I learned from that video, which was actually about the P-47 not the D9. Stall speed doesn't take into account available power so 1.3X that speed makes no sense. Glide slope is the AOA where lift and drag are optimal and also doesn't take into account the power available.

 

I use this from Han's notes for the K4 and climb out at 280 km/h indicated.

 

Maximum performance turn at sea level: 24.2 s, at 280 km/h IAS.
Maximum performance turn at 3000 m: 33.0 s, at 280 km/h IAS.

Edited May 29, 2020 by VR-DriftaholiC

[busdriver]

10 hours ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

Would it then be called the best sustained turn speed?

 

If we are talking about the notion of best climb speed and it's relation to turn performance of power limited propeller driven airplanes, then "slowest sustained turn speed" is perhaps a more accurate description. IMO folks read or hear "Best" anything and anchor to that value as the parameter to shoot for. The Devs use the description as "Maximum performance turn" which it is NOT. If you watch Requiem's tutorial on turn circles, you see the term "best sustained." [Full disclosure, he allows me to critique every video prior to publication. I did NOT object to this description.]

 

 

But if you move to the right to 380 kph, you see the instantaneous corner velocity with a slightly smaller turn circle with a whopping 10 degree per second turn rate advantage. The prudent 1GCCFP should conclude that a 3g turn at 270 kph is NOT maximizing their turn performance, rather they are flying the approximate smallest turn circle at the slowest sustained speed.

 

So how does this relate back to the OP and "Best Climb speed?" I'm not sure. There are after all TWO best climb speeds. There is best rate and best angle.

 

 

 

American WWII flight manuals that I've looked at only list one "Best Climb" speed. I've not tested the game's numbers to see whether it's best rate or best angle. Perhaps the actual values for both  numbers are pretty close, and this number is a compromise value. That's just a WAG on my part. But I do recognize that this "Best Climb" speed is not tactically sound for MP takeoffs with the very real threat of being bounced close to your airfield. Nor will I choose to climb this slowly between engagements, it's just not tactically sound. 

 

 

 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this more thoroughly. So I guess smallest sustained turn radius is the key ?

 

this is the video I was referencing around 56 min and much later talks about angle of climb

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by VR-DriftaholiC

[TAIPAN_]

23 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

American WWII flight manuals that I've looked at only list one "Best Climb" speed. I've not tested the game's numbers to see whether it's best rate or best angle. Perhaps the actual values for both  numbers are pretty close, and this number is a compromise value. That's just a WAG on my part. But I do recognize that this "Best Climb" speed is not tactically sound for MP takeoffs with the very real threat of being bounced close to your airfield. Nor will I choose to climb this slowly between engagements, it's just not tactically sound. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks I'm normally thinking about "best rate of climb" speed, since we want the fastest altitude gain AND the most distance covered normally. I guess i also was used to using a climb target speed because all my time in ROF, WW1 planes struggle to gain altitude compared to these WW2 birds and if you don't pick the best speed the sun will be coming up soon

 

While it's dangerous to give up speed for a faster climb in combat zones I still think it's useful to know the ideal speed. Sometimes in a fight you need to climb directly above your enemy to maintain an energy advantage and can't level out without giving them a shot or losing your position. Also after aborted landing, or even after regular takeoff when you need to get up to your formation as soon as possible.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Dan_Taipan

[busdriver]

6 hours ago, VR-DriftaholiC said:

Thanks for taking the time to explain this more thoroughly. So I guess smallest sustained turn radius is the key ?

 

I'm not sure what you're asking. "Key" in regards to what? If you're asking about turn performance WRT fighting I will reply with the standard but correct fighter pilot response, "It depends on the situation." Not to blow off the question, it's a nuanced answer depending on the scenario (such as a 1 circle fight versus 2 circle fight). Robert Shaw's book, available as a PDF is an excellent place to start. 

 

 

[Yogiflight]

In the manual of the 109 G2 from june 1942, the climb speed was changed handwritten from 250km/h to 270, however the AI climbs with 440km/h in a very shallow angle.