Normandy module question.

[Oscar19681]

I was wondering, when the Normandy module is released are we forced to use the Razorback P-47 and P51 when you own bodenplatte? Or do we have some sort of choise  here? I hardly believe only fhe Razorback versions where available at D-day 

[Goffik]

 

23 minutes ago, Oscar19681 said:

I hardly believe only fhe Razorback versions where available at D-day 

 

Nobody is saying they were. None of the current BoX packs contain all the variations of every plane they feature that was available in their covered time frame. BoN will be no different. For simple practicality, the devs have to pick one or two variants and go with them. Their resources aren't limitless.

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, Oscar19681 said:

I was wondering, when the Normandy module is released are we forced to use the Razorback P-47 and P51 when you own bodenplatte? Or do we have some sort of choise  here? I hardly believe only fhe Razorback versions where available at D-day 

It's up to the mission makers unless you're talking of singleplayer only. The only bubbletop P-47 around during D-Day was the D-25/D-26 iirc. P-47D 27 and D-28 would have been available right after D-Day (within a month a few months I think., can't give exact dates).

It would be up to the mission makers if they use the D-28 as a stand in for the D-25, performance wise they are nearly identical with the D-25 being slightly faster.

[cardboard_killer]

That map area contains six eleven weeks of fighting after the actual invasion. Not sure when the Germans gave up trying to get their planes into the close air support airfields, but it wasn't too long into the fight as they were getting butchered just staging from their long range bases to the short range bases, let alone actual combat sorties.

 

Quote

   Allied attacks in May against bases in France soon had a decided impact on Luftflotte 3's capabilities . "Ultra" intercepts gave Allied intelligence a glimpse into the location and strength of fighter units as well as the effectiveness of attacks carried out by tactical air .7s They also indicated when the Germans had completed repairs on damaged fields or had decided to abandon permanently operations at particular locations .76 Armed with this information, the Allies pursued an intensive, well-orchestrated campaign that destroyed the German's base structure near the English Channel and invasion beaches . The scale of these attacks forced the Germans to abandon efforts to prepare bases close to the Channel and to select airfields far to the southeast ."
  Thus, on the brink of the invasion, the Luftwaffe had lost control of its base structure in France . Since December 1943, the Germans had planned to move major aircraft reinforcements into Luffflotte 3 when the invasion occurred . That command would then launch a decisive air attack against the landings .'$ Further plans followed in February . Basic premises were that "defense against an invasion [would] be decisive for the successful conclusion to the war" and that "massed intervention of all the flying units in the first hours of a landing would be decisive for the continuation of the whole undertaking . "79 Such platitudes sounded impressive . However, by June, the Allied air offensive had removed all possibility for the Germans to make an effective aerial response . Air battles in Germany had devastated the Reich's fighter forces, German bombing attacks on Britain had eliminated most of the bombers, and Allied attacks on forward operating airfields had destroyed much of the base support.

  What is remarkable in examining Luftfotte 3's force structure is the fact that it contained few ground support aircraft, as nearly all ground support squadrons were on the eastern front (with 550 aircraft) in anticipation of what the Germans correctly believed would be a major Russian offensive. As a result, fighter aircraft would have to fly most of the attacks on the invasion forces . These fighters would fly in from Luftfotte Reich, and their pilots would have received no previous training in fighter bomber tactics . The weight of their bomb loads would put German pilots at an even greater disadvantage against Allied fighters

. . .

  The buildup of Luftflotte 3 strength began with the movement of 200 fighters from Germany to airfields in France within 36 hours of the invasion . An additional 100 had followed by June 10 . 90 But the destruction of forward operating bases had forced the Luftwaffe to select new and inadequately prepared sites for reinforcements arriving from the Reich . But there was confusion even on fields that had been selected early in the spring . A German study written after the defeat in Normandy stated :
The airfields which had long been earmarked for the
emergency day fighter Geschwader from the Reich in the event of
an invasion . . ., were completely inadequate . In almost every case,
no H .Q . [headquarters] buildings had been constructed and
dispersal points had not been organized ; there was a complete lack
of splinter screens, trenches, dugouts, shelters, teleprinting and
wireless installations, and of ammunition and fuel depots .
To urgent request for the provision of these elementary
necessities, the reply received was always that no personnel [were]
available for construction purposes and no one for the installation of
signals equipment . 91

 "Ultra" intercepts picked up a substantial portion of the move and indicated bases and arrival times for the reinforcing fighters . 92 The Luftwaffe was at least able to better the poor showing of June 6 . On the nights of June 7-8, the bomber and antishipping aircraft managed to launch 100 sorties, while the day forces flew 500 sorties on the 8th, 400 by single-engine fighters . 93 The Luftwaffe, however, could raise the level of sorties only by stripping the Reich's fighter defenses . Losses against swarms of Allied fighters were heavy . On June 8, Luftflotte 3 lost 68 aircraft ; and in the first week of operations around the beachhead, 362 aircraft . In the second week, the Germans lost another 232 aircraft . Thus, in the two weeks from June 6 to 19th, they lost nearly 75 percent of the aircraft that Luftflotte 3 had possessed on June 5 . Moreover, by throwing their aircraft into the invasion battle, Hitler and G6ring gave Eighth Air Force carte blanche to attack the synthetic fuel facilities ; and almost as fast as the Germans fed aircraft into the Normandy battle, American and British fighters shot them down .

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by cardboard_killer
Forgot the month of July

[Oscar19681]

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

It's up to the mission makers unless you're talking of singleplayer only. The only bubbletop P-47 around during D-Day was the D-25/D-26 iirc. P-47D 27 and D-28 would have been available right after D-Day (within a month a few months I think., can't give exact dates).

It would be up to the mission makers if they use the D-28 as a stand in for the D-25, performance wise they are nearly identical with the D-25 being slightly faster.

I was actually refering to the career mode...

[RedKestrel]

1 minute ago, Oscar19681 said:

I was actually refering to the career mode...

For the career mode, you will fly what the squadron you choose flies. If some were flying bubbltops, a bubbletop might be available. Otherwise, razorbacks. 

The option will probably appear to fly razorback P-47s in Bodenplatte too, as they were used right up until the end of the war.

[Field-Ops]

They will add the P47-D28 and the P51-D15 to the singleplayer campaign when it was historically available to the units that used them no doubt. Historical campaigns in this title usually range a little less than a year long so if they place D-Day in the center of that timeline you'll see these bubble tops in the later half of your career. 

 

EDIT: That is, if you own both Bodenplatte and Normandy. If you dont own Bodenplatte they will only appear as AI and wont be playable by you. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Field-Ops

[BlackSix]

10 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

That map area contains six weeks of fighting after the actual invasion. Not sure when the Germans gave up trying to get their planes into the close air support airfields, but it wasn't too long into the fight as they were getting butchered just staging from their long range bases to the short range bases, let alone actual combat sorties.

That map area allows us to finish the career simultaneously with the end of the Battle of the Falaise Pocket, this is more than 6 weeks after D-Day.

About P-47D-28 and P-51D-15 in the BoN timeframe - we've not yet begun to explore this issue.

[cardboard_killer]

D'oh! Forgot about the month of July!