Play nice

[HagarTheHorrible]

Probably whistling in the wind, but..........

 

Please play nice !

 

Lot’s of new players to FC and the J5 server, please don’t take advantage. Clobbering them as they take off or get some altitude, having just done so, is not great introduction for new pilots.  Despite the object of the game being to shoot down and kill each other, it’s a bit of a short term thrill if new players end up being mobbed and leave frustrated.  Long term, or experienced pilots should call out bad behaviour, manners, we should try to be as helpful and encouraging of fresh blood as we possible can be n drive new players every opportunity to succeed and enjoy the game rather than seeing it as an opportunity to pad our stats.

[J2_Jakob]

How do you tell them apart from veterans?

[No.23_Triggers]

Nobody pulled their punches for me back in RoF days, when I was a green pilot going up against the likes of Drookasi, Adam, Furlow, Chunko......! 

Whack-a-moling newbies right over their aerodromes is a bit strong....but like Bidu says, how do we tell them apart? 

Edited February 28, 2020 by US93_Larner

[Goffik]

Why do you need to tell them apart? Shooting people down the moment their wheels leave the ground isn't much fun for the victims regardless of their experience level. Veterans are just as likely to quit in frustration as newbies if they're getting fed up.

 

So perhaps it's in everybody's interest for people not to stalk each others airfields and give all pilots a chance, regardless of how long they've been playing? Such a rule would make me far more likely to get involved in online play.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Goffik

[J2_Trupobaw]

J5 server has pretty extensive rules for vulching, actually.
http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/info/

1. NO VULCHING: Do not to engage in any of the following forms of Vulching:
a. Attacking another plane that is on the ground readying to take off or otherwise not allowing an aircraft to get in the air before launching an attack. Most consider the first turn or firing of guns after take-off to be the point of acceptable engagement.
b. Attacking a plane that has been involved in a collision that is returning to base (RTB), unless it first attacks you.
c. Attacking a plane that is severely damaged or which will eventually crash, unless you am the pilot responsible for most of that damage or it is attacking me.
d. Attacking a single enemy who is already engaged with two or more opponents.
e. Attacking an enemy that is out of ammunition and returning to base (RTB), unless the pilot used much of his ammo up while attacking you.
f. Intentionally stealing other pilots kill by firing the last few rounds into an already doomed plane.
g. Continuously singling out and attacking new players for easy kills.

 

[No.23_Gaylion]

58 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

J5 server has pretty extensive rules for vulching, actually.
http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/info/

1. NO VULCHING: Do not to engage in any of the following forms of Vulching:
a. Attacking another plane that is on the ground readying to take off or otherwise not allowing an aircraft to get in the air before launching an attack. Most consider the first turn or firing of guns after take-off to be the point of acceptable engagement.
b. Attacking a plane that has been involved in a collision that is returning to base (RTB), unless it first attacks you.
c. Attacking a plane that is severely damaged or which will eventually crash, unless you am the pilot responsible for most of that damage or it is attacking me.
d. Attacking a single enemy who is already engaged with two or more opponents.
e. Attacking an enemy that is out of ammunition and returning to base (RTB), unless the pilot used much of his ammo up while attacking you.
f. Intentionally stealing other pilots kill by firing the last few rounds into an already doomed plane.
g. Continuously singling out and attacking new players for easy kills.

 

 

Ctrl+f "parachute".

*not found*

Aight, Coo...

[J2_Trupobaw]

12 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

 

Ctrl+f "parachute".

*not found*

Aight, Coo...

Parachuting pilot is obviously out of ammo and obviously RTB, soo...

[No.23_Gaylion]

So how do I tell people I'm out of ammo?

[J2_Trupobaw]

How do I know? In German, I suppose.



On second thought I need this on my own skin...

[No.23_Gaylion]

Just now, J2_Trupobaw said:

How do I know? In German, I suppose.

 

Lol, that was funny.

[J2_Trupobaw]

 

[J2_Drookasi]

7 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Probably whistling in the wind, but..........

 

Please play nice !

 

Lot’s of new players to FC and the J5 server, please don’t take advantage. Clobbering them as they take off or get some altitude, having just done so, is not great introduction for new pilots.  Despite the object of the game being to shoot down and kill each other, it’s a bit of a short term thrill if new players end up being mobbed and leave frustrated.  Long term, or experienced pilots should call out bad behaviour, manners, we should try to be as helpful and encouraging of fresh blood as we possible can be n drive new players every opportunity to succeed and enjoy the game rather than seeing it as an opportunity to pad our stats.

If a freshman gets into a full realism server full of predators, he has to expect that he will die. A lot. As Larner said this was the reason why I asked for a squadron to join. I flew a lot, I read a little, I have watched videos and I have somewhat improved.  Should someone want to excel in this trade, that is my advise for him. Otherwise, the moments his wheels are leaving the ground he is fair game.

 

 

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

3 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

So how do I tell people I'm out of ammo?

 

White flare for surrender. Green flare if you want a reacharound.

[No.23_Starling]

I like to swap sides and switch between planes every so often, including the harder to master and poor climbers/slow turners. I could spend all my life up high in DviiF bouncing and out turning everything in sight (which is fun for a while!) but it can’t be fun for the new guys. With a larger plane set it really helps as you can rotate so people can’t always pick their favourite Klingon warbird - the map in RoF with Hanriot vs D.ii albi was a huge amount of fun! 
 

With what we have it isn’t so easy to enforce something like that. Maybe the odd map where Camel and invisible Fokker isn’t available every now and then?

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

16 minutes ago, No56_Waggaz said:

 

With what we have it isn’t so easy to enforce something like that. Maybe the odd map where Camel and invisible Fokker isn’t available every now and then?

 

Agreed. Map variety is also limited.  Ahhh, the days of winter Cappy.

Edited February 28, 2020 by J5_Klugermann

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

Can't the servers just load up the air field with ground fire, That'll keep any enemy away, Give every one a chance to climb. 

21 minutes ago, No56_Waggaz said:

With what we have it isn’t so easy to enforce something like that. Maybe the odd map where Camel and invisible Fokker isn’t available every now and then?

Don't see how no camels or d7f will help newbies, A good veteran will still beat up a newbie no mater what he or she is flying.

Newbies will just have to learn like the rest of us do, Join a squad or just hang out with a veteran to learn.  

[No.23_Starling]

Great idea on extra flak. Mixing up the plane availability now and then means falling in love with planes you might never have given a chance and force the high scorers to adapt. Doesn’t need to be every round.

 

I miss the DII with the Kannon...

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

Some one like you Waggaz and other veterans should be taking some newbies up, we do have a training server that has ai to shoot down, maybe start a school for newbies. Maybe start a thread for new players to join, There's a few of you guys that pilots would love to learn from. Take your fav plane and show them what you can do, Set a time for teaching, top aces showing off what they can do in their magnificent flying machine. Think what Larner or Bear can teach guys in the spad, If they have the time or the patients. Just a thought.

[No.23_Gaylion]

30 minutes ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

Think what Larner or Bear can teach guys in the spad, If they have the time or the patients. Just a thought.

 

 

You gotta join the dark side for that. 

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

12 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

You gotta join the dark side for that. 

What? we're the light side buddy and don't be swayed by the darkside's tactics, they try to tell you their your father when in reality their just your evil little sister. 

[J5_Gamecock]

1 hour ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

Think what Larner or Bear can teach guys in the spad

Are you sure you want to know what they're doing? I say keep that behind closed doors.

[BraveSirRobin]

16 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Probably whistling in the wind, but..........

 

Please play nice !

 

Lot’s of new players to FC and the J5 server, please don’t take advantage. Clobbering them as they take off or get some altitude, having just done so, is not great introduction for new pilots.  Despite the object of the game being to shoot down and kill each other, it’s a bit of a short term thrill if new players end up being mobbed and leave frustrated.  Long term, or experienced pilots should call out bad behaviour, manners, we should try to be as helpful and encouraging of fresh blood as we possible can be n drive new players every opportunity to succeed and enjoy the game rather than seeing it as an opportunity to pad our stats.

I always tried to help nurture noobs in RoF, but it was tough to type “are you a noob?” while I was trying to kill them.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 hour ago, J5_Gamecock said:

Are you sure you want to know what they're doing? I say keep that behind closed doors.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww?

[SeaW0lf]

To place proper defenses on airfields is my opinion. Cappy has become a slot machine for the Entente. A few guys on comms can easily overrun the airfield and spend several minutes fending off the opposition (I imagine people respawning and taking off as well), especially just across the mud. A battery* of flak and a couple mgs would solve the issue (with replenishing after half an hour or so depending on stress levels?). Since the airfield is just at the mud, the flak guns could be positioned in a ring around it, over the Somme, at the front, one or two at the airfield? Villers-Bretonneux, Brazieux and other airfields could also be more defended.

 

*a battery [for the British] would be comprised of one or more AAA sections. A section was comprised of two anti-aircraft artillery guns. M Anti-Aircraft Battery, for example, consisted of the 40th, 65th, 83rd and 84th Anti-Aircraft Sections [a total of 8 anti-aircraft guns].

[6./ZG26_Loke]

Ha, I was attacked last night and killed instanly, even though I had a dead engine and was trying to glide back to own side. 

 

Beside, is it called vulching bombing an enemy airfield? 

[HagarTheHorrible]

Bombing is fine in my book, even staffing a couple of times as you do so .  Hanging around, vulching as players spawn in, or loitering , picking off easy targets as they take off, no.

Edited February 29, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[J2_Trupobaw]

Bombing stopped being fine once we got refueling / rearming/ repairing stations. 

[BMA_Hellbender]

* These are my own opinions, not those of J5

 

 

Don't play nice. Instead: play fair.

 

If you're deliberately and repeatedly attacking people as they spawn in, during their takeoff roll, or stalk them until they're wheels up, that's obviously vulching. However, if you're mounting an air raid on a forward airfield or bombing it from high altitude and you're also destroying the planes at that field, it's fair game. The AAA at the airfield should make it very dangerous to hang around those fields anyway. If that's not the case, then the AAA positions will need to be redone or fortified.

 

In any case, the forward (Central) airfields should be relatively easy to attack, they're on the defensive. You can always spawn from a relatively safe(r) rear field.

[J2_Bidu]

On 2/28/2020 at 9:36 AM, J2_Jakob said:

How do you tell them apart from veterans?

 

Jakob, I should have said that.

 

 

On 2/28/2020 at 9:39 AM, US93_Larner said:

Whack-a-moling newbies right over their aerodromes is a bit strong....but like Bidu says, how do we tell them apart? 

 

...see what I mean? ?

Edited February 29, 2020 by J2_Bidu

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Don't play dumb.  If you have any length of experience in these games, you can usually tell during the first engagement if you're facing a newbie or not.  Oftentimes you can tell just by watching them fly.

 

Sometimes you can't tell, and I get it.  But if you realize that you are doing it, just stop.

Edited February 29, 2020 by J28w-Broccoli

[No.23_Gaylion]

I was strafed while clearly landing and out of the fight by an AI fokker. Can we add +5 to Chivalry level of the AI please. Maybe +2 Charisma as well? 

 

(-1 Invisibility also)

[RNAS10_Oliver]

4 hours ago, J5_Hellbender said:

* These are my own opinions, not those of J5

 

 

Don't play nice. Instead: play fair.

 

If you're deliberately and repeatedly attacking people as they spawn in, during their takeoff roll, or stalk them until they're wheels up, that's obviously vulching. However, if you're mounting an air raid on a forward airfield or bombing it from high altitude and you're also destroying the planes at that field, it's fair game. The AAA at the airfield should make it very dangerous to hang around those fields anyway. If that's not the case, then the AAA positions will need to be redone or fortified.

 

In any case, the forward (Central) airfields should be relatively easy to attack, they're on the defensive. You can always spawn from a relatively safe(r) rear field.

 

Yes I would say at the moment that is definitely not the case. There appears to be just two AA positions sited on the aerodromes. And consider that just the one containing the MG is any concern to attackers, the other can be somewhat ignored. So does not require any sort of concerted effort to wipe the aerodrome of its AA defence, just one pass from some lone fighter. Did this the other day at the aerodrome near Bapaume. After that one pass your free to hang around as long as you wish with regards to the AA defence.

 

What Seawolf suggests sounds good. With regards to the MG's though I would say another fortified AA position sited on the aerodrome along with couple more unfortified ones (such as you see on the ground attack locations) in the general area. So that it's then not just one pass and done or at least would take more than one aircraft working together to do so. Also suggesting the satellites be unfortified rather than fortified because with the latter its easy to locate them before you attack but the former the first indication you get of them is when you start to see their tracer.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Oliver88

[No.23_Triggers]

The aerodrome defences seem pretty brutal at the moment. There was one day I went on a couple airfield raids (Don't worry, I let the ships on the ground get off first) and dropped some coopers on a couple hangars for a laugh - if I stuck around for more than 30 seconds - 1 minute then Otto in the MG nest would put my lights out...

[RNAS10_Oliver]

I have seen them be brutal before. Can remember Uriah getting wiped out from something some while ago (that was somewhere in the north also but could be misremembering and was factory or other target instead). But more recent experiences have been that the aerodromes were a push over either not engaging us what so ever or being dealt with in a single pass. Sure was I to just circle around the MG ignoring him then sure the AA defence could have been considered brutal and done the job, but removing that threat seems a cinch.

 

From that attack this week I'm in no doubt as to whether the aerodromes defences would be any concern to would be vulchers.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Oliver88

[SeaW0lf]

26 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

The aerodrome defences seem pretty brutal at the moment. There was one day I went on a couple airfield raids (Don't worry, I let the ships on the ground get off first) and dropped some coopers on a couple hangars for a laugh - if I stuck around for more than 30 seconds - 1 minute then Otto in the MG nest would put my lights out...

 

I think it depends on the mission. There are the ones with vicious WWII flak. But in general I can roam around Bapaume and Cappy without any hassle. In my view, flak is mostly absent in these missions, which is not the ideal, since we finally got rid of ambient flak, so we could work some nice flak dinamics out there, give some life to the front. Part could be due to trigger bugs (those combined triggers to simulate several batteries), part due to mission arquitecture. At least in 2018, I imagine that the front would be like a Chirstmas tree with all those planes roaming around. The impression is that the current flak can only deal with one plane at each section, many times with 10km gaps that you can just go through and then bouce the enemy from their backs.

 

During the Cambrai offensive, in 1917, the British had seven AAA batteries over 20/25km of front, which would account from 30 to up to more than 50 anti-aircraft artillery guns divided in sections, giving it more than 1 artillery gun for kilometer of front (most like two or more, especially in 2018) - this on the front alone, without considering the back airfields, big cities and objectives. London alone had 304 AAA guns and 415 searchlights in 1918. OK, 'the city', but city complexes like Bapaume, with airfields, cities and satellite cities, objectives, should be well covered by flak. Not the WWII flak that makes us dogfight them at 18.000ft, but flak to dissuade people to sneak in all the time to vulche or to bounce you unannounced.

 

Contrary to the old Rise of Flak, I think flak should be only for airfields and target protection and to tag planes, not to blast them out of the sky at high altitudes. And we only have two AAA guns (one for each side). They seem to have shorter range as well.

Edited February 29, 2020 by SeaW0lf

[No.23_Gaylion]

What we have no is probably pretty realistic. 

 

There is an "over the front" you tube video about WWI AA. Long story short: very inaccurate, 1:4,000 rounds fired per hit, only around balloons, and pilots knew where AA was and would avoid these areas. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[SeaW0lf]

From all the books I have read, they dealt with flak in most sorties, or were followed by flak along the front, etc. It was a constant in their lives, especially over the front or big cities. It is common to find quotes saying "as soon as we crossed the trenches, the usual archie welcomed us".

[SeaW0lf]

I found this at the begining of Flying Fury, the book of McCudden. 

 

It happened in 1914/15. 

 

Our aedrome at Gonneham was only seven miles from the nearest part of the line, and in the clear spring evenings we could follow with our own eyesight our machines until they were being archied over the trenches. On some evenings we could see a river of white shell-bursts from south of Armentieres almost down to Lens.

 

Then I imagine that three years later things would have been way more intense. The pity is that 7 miles plus no man's land and some terrain means that they were seeing flak at greater distances than 16/17km, something that is not currently possible. Since my last tests, flak does not show after 9.5/10km (just tested it). Seems like it remained confined to the 9.5km bubble that we had in the past.

[No.23_Gaylion]

 

[SeaW0lf]

I did not see anything contradicting my information. Is there a video? He's just going through the guns and how people operate them. The numbers are not representative, since in offensives they would bring and concentrate pieces on the front.

 

What I posted is a result of a research, and the missions we play are campaigns, and they would concentrate forces and armament over the front and in targets.

 

The data from Cambrai is true.

The data regarding AAA sections is true.

I also don't question that AAA guns were inaccurate. I'm not a fan of Rise of Flak.

There are some other AAA guns out there with more range.

 

And so on so forth. Plus the accounts. Rickenbacker, McCudden, Gould Lee and all these pilots have detailed accounts on archie. I have been studying it for years and collecting material. 

 

So I don't see how the front was an empty space with occasional puffs here and there, especially in city complexes and targets. The post of McCudden’s account is pretty straightforward I believe.