German red cross-marked rescue aircraft

[Trooper117]

German aircraft with red crosses on were shot down over the channel during the Battle of Britain... 

 

[Elem]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

German aircraft with red crosses on were shot down over the channel during the Battle of Britain... 

 

Any references?

[cardboard_killer]

Great Britain did terribly at rescuing its own pilots, unlike the German air rescue.

 

British pilots relied on German sea rescue service during Battle of Britain

 

Quote

The German service, that had been set up in 1935, became so effective that RAF chiefs ordered fighters to shoot down the Luftwaffe Dornier 24 seaplane that were unarmed and painted in white with a large red cross. However, it is thought that the Germans might have been using the aircraft for illicit reconnaissance missions.

 

[Trooper117]

I'll add to the above post that Dowding himself thought it perfectly reasonable to shoot at German pilots who had bailed out over their own territory, but not over England as they would be captured anyway.

[Eisenfaustus]

3 hours ago, Elem said:

Any references?

Not that particular story - but Makos writes in "a higher call" about a similar episode in Italy were thunderbolt drivers shot down an Italian Red Cross sea rescue plane. 

[cardboard_killer]

2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Dowding himself thought it perfectly reasonable to shoot at German pilots who had bailed out over their own territory

 

And lest we forget, Dowding was a pilot in WW1 and a combat veteran so wasn't a rear area paper pusher himself.

 

The cavalier attitude about RAF pilots in the drink is one of the dark marks on the RAF in that summer of 1940.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

On 2/22/2020 at 3:59 AM, Trooper117 said:

German aircraft with red crosses on were shot down over the channel during the Battle of Britain... 

 

 

Just curious, why would a German AC bearing red crosses be over the channel? Rescue/flying boats would just have the national markings. I can't think of a scenario where an air ambulance would be over that body of water as opposed to using an inland route.

[bzc3lk]

5 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Just curious, why would a German AC bearing red crosses be over the channel? Rescue/flying boats would just have the national markings. I can't think of a scenario where an air ambulance would be over that body of water as opposed to using an inland route.

 

https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/Stock-Images/Rights-Managed/MDO-AA328870

"Stock Photo - The German Red Cross during the Second World War. The crew members of a bomber, which sunk during the journey back from a mission in England, are being saved by a German Red Cross plane . North Sea, July 1940."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by bzc3lk

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Fair enough but it still seems out of it's element. Red Cross vehicles are usually for dedicated patient transport. For AC usually from aid stations or hospitals for more intensive care away from the front. Basic sea rescue is a different mission typically carried out by ships/boats/AC without said markings.

[kendo]

I think that was why the British decided to shoot them down when they were spotted. (Also, their capacity for intelligence gathering.) 

Edited February 24, 2020 by kendo

[Cybermat47]

1 hour ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Fair enough but it still seems out of it's element. Red Cross vehicles are usually for dedicated patient transport. For AC usually from aid stations or hospitals for more intensive care away from the front. Basic sea rescue is a different mission typically carried out by ships/boats/AC without said markings.

Presumably due to how the British would shoot down the rescue aircraft that they easily spotted due to the red markings.

[Trooper117]

8 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Just curious, why would a German AC bearing red crosses be over the channel? Rescue/flying boats would just have the national markings. I can't think of a scenario where an air ambulance would be over that body of water as opposed to using an inland route.

 

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Well, that pretty much makes my point......while illustrating yours as well.

[cardboard_killer]

5 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Fair enough but it still seems out of it's element.

 

They'd have been shot down with or without the red crosses. Odd to use them for air sea rescue? Many things about Nazi Germany and its air force were odd.

[migmadmarine]

Interesting that the swastika on the tail isn't painted at 45 degrees, not seen that on a German aircraft before. 

[Eisenfaustus]

19 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Just curious, why would a German AC bearing red crosses be over the channel? Rescue/flying boats would just have the national markings. I can't think of a scenario where an air ambulance would be over that body of water as opposed to using an inland route.

Makes actually perfect sense - the humanitarian law forbids to continue to attack enemy soldiers that are out of combat: Dead, surrendered, wounded or having evacuated their ship or aircraft in an emergency situation. Further more does it forbid to attack soldiers whose job it is to tend to those: Medics, Chaplans or sea rescuers. The symbol that was invented to show the enemy that something is protected by the humanitarian law is the red cross.

 

That we today see the red cross purely in a medical context is because civilian medical institutions have adopted the successfull symbol...

Edited February 24, 2020 by Eisenfaustus

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

1 hour ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Makes actually perfect sense - the humanitarian law forbids to continue to attack enemy soldiers that are out of combat: Dead, surrendered, wounded or having evacuated their ship or aircraft in an emergency situation. Further more does it forbid to attack soldiers whose job it is to tend to those: Medics, Chaplans or sea rescuers. The symbol that was invented to show the enemy that something is protected by the humanitarian law is the red cross.

 

That we today see the red cross purely in a medical context is because civilian medical institutions have adopted the successfull symbol...

 

Except no one else did it during the war. And few, if any, do it today. Coast Guard rescues and air/sea rescue tend to wear their national symbols then and now.

[Eisenfaustus]

I'm pretty shure the Italians did it as well. 

 

And furthermore: just because the western allies and Japanese didn't do something doesn't mean it makes no sense. 

 

I think if the British Red Cross  had a well organised search and rescue service it could have saved a lot of lives. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Eisenfaustus