Fun online.

[FuriousMeow]

Missions will be much longer than 45 minutes when this title reaches the point that its complete and we are supposed to be playing it for fun.

 

Right now we are just allowed early access to see how it's progressing, and also to assist in testing so when its ready to go everything is stress tested and can support more players for a much longer of time.

 

Missions will be under the control of the server admins when this is a released title. Until then, just be happy we get to test it out because that is the only point of early access.

[sturmkraehe]

Oh yes. And I want to test it for 45 min instead of 25

[DD_Arthur]

has anyone said "COOP online war".................................

 

good old IL2 times in the early and mid 2000. Glad i was there, doubting all this will happen again IMHO.

 

BoS will have no recognizable coop mode on release.  Loft has already said so early on in development.  However, he also went on to say it has not been ruled out for the future.  I hope not as RoF has a perfectly good coop mode that is very similar to IL2.

 

 However, its a chicken and egg situation.  To have a healthy amount of user-made coops, campaigns and single missions requires an easy to use FMB.  Hopefully we will get one on initial release.

[DD_Arthur]

Sorry Extreme_One but its true.  RoF does have a decent coop mode - very similar to IL2 - as I stated.  However, we will not be getting one in BoS when it is released.  RoF does indeed have online wars , I participate in them but they are NOT based on the RoF coop system either.

 

There are a few vocal people on these boards who do not understand what an IL2 style coop is frankly.  The coop system in IL2 was and for many still is at the heart of a squad's online activities.  We will not be getting such a system in BoS in the immediate future.  Also, if the FMB that gets released in BoS is the one from RoF then stand by for some ultra- whining. 

[DD_Arthur]

If I remember correctly the devs stated we would be getting the FMB from RoF essentially.  This is indeed a very powerful tool.  Its also an incredibly complex and often confusing thing to use too as it is the dev's development tool.  When RoF was first released there was no FMB.  People repeatedly asked for one so they gave us what the devs used.  It was all they had.

 

Only a handful of people use it due to its complexity.  That's why there is such a dearth of user made missions or coops compared to what the community has made for IL2 with its much more straightforward FMB.

[BlitzPig_EL]

If I remember correctly the devs stated we would be getting the FMB from RoF essentially.  This is indeed a very powerful tool.  Its also an incredibly complex and often confusing thing to use too as it is the dev's development tool.  When RoF was first released there was no FMB.  People repeatedly asked for one so they gave us what the devs used.  It was all they had.

 

Only a handful of people use it due to its complexity.  That's why there is such a dearth of user made missions or coops compared to what the community has made for IL2 with its much more straightforward FMB.

 

I have pontificated about this before.

 

BoS desperately needs a user friendly FMB, one that apparently the devs feel it does not need.

This is one of the basic building blocks of a successful combat flight simulation.   The RoF map development tool that is passed off as an FMB is one of the reasons that sim has stayed a tiny niche within a niche.

[Rama]

RoF does have a decent coop mode - very similar to IL2 - as I stated.  However, we will not be getting one in BoS when it is released.  RoF does indeed have online wars , I participate in them but they are NOT based on the RoF coop system either.

And if the online wars don't use the RoF coop mode, it's because the RoF dog mode is much more usefull to create coop-style missions. It may be paradoxal, but it is not. The standard RoF dogfight mode allows to do everything you have on IL2 coop mode, and more... while the RoF coop mode specific features are not as powerfull, and quite buggy.

This only is a good reason not to include the RoF FMB coop mode in BoS release.

 

There are a few vocal people on these boards who do not understand what an IL2 style coop is frankly.  The coop system in IL2 was and for many still is at the heart of a squad's online activities.  We will not be getting such a system in BoS in the immediate future.  Also, if the FMB that gets released in BoS is the one from RoF then stand by for some ultra- whining.

And, as shown by RoF online wars, the IL2 style coop can be replicated with FMB missions, used in dogfight mode.... so yes, if the FMB, or an FMB evoluation is there at BoS release, you will be getting "such a system", and even a more powerfull one (with all the trigger system).

 

Now for the "ultra-whining", because the FMB has a steep learning curve, yes you're right, there will be some ultra-whining. But I bet that when some people will master the FMB, do some tutorial, show the others that with a library of grouped objects, creating a mission isn't that difficult, etc..... then the whining will slow down.

And I also bet that there will be much more mission creators and online war projects in BoS than in RoF.... if someone want to take the bet, maybe I'll make some money out of BoS...

[PB0_Foxy]

The FMB is not that complicated .

Sure it is not user friendly but come on it is the same for all the Armed Assault series but that didn't stopped the community to do some good stuff with it.

 

You want to make good missions ? That will taking time for sure but give an other try to the RoF FMB and try to learn it.

 

When you know his basics you can do something good very quickly

[ShamrockOneFive]

Old FMB news that some may not have caught...

 

 

 

It is quite complex in ROF indeed, so for IL2BOS we're preparing something more like in old IL-2 but with advanced AI-based scenario features from ROF.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3907913/Re_Mission_Builder#Post3907913

[=AVG=Zombie]

What kills a bit of the fun online for me is the short mission time. 25min is far to short. Just enough to make one and a half sorties when one takes the far airfield. Please extend the mission duration to 45 min. 

My thoughts exactly, By he time you alt up and get to a good position you get a 5 minute warning....  Thats why people just spawn in and go get raked right off the front base..

[ShamrockOneFive]

If the online multiplayer system is as flexible as I think it is... then I think we'll have no trouble. The guys over with our Dedicated Bomber Squad use dogfight server setups using the moving dogfight system that we've had for a few years now in IL-2 1946 and that works perfectly as well as coop system for organized battles. It's just a matter of imagination and coordination.

[sturmkraehe]

And if the online wars don't use the RoF coop mode, it's because the RoF dog mode is much more usefull to create coop-style missions. It may be paradoxal, but it is not. The standard RoF dogfight mode allows to do everything you have on IL2 coop mode, and more... while the RoF coop mode specific features are not as powerfull, and quite buggy.

This only is a good reason not to include the RoF FMB coop mode in BoS release.

 

And, as shown by RoF online wars, the IL2 style coop can be replicated with FMB missions, used in dogfight mode.... so yes, if the FMB, or an FMB evoluation is there at BoS release, you will be getting "such a system", and even a more powerfull one (with all the trigger system).

 

Now for the "ultra-whining", because the FMB has a steep learning curve, yes you're right, there will be some ultra-whining. But I bet that when some people will master the FMB, do some tutorial, show the others that with a library of grouped objects, creating a mission isn't that difficult, etc..... then the whining will slow down.

And I also bet that there will be much more mission creators and online war projects in BoS than in RoF.... if someone want to take the bet, maybe I'll make some money out of BoS...

 

Of course there will be a hand full of users that eventually will be able to use the RoF style FMB to create missions. But I think one would fall for an illusion to believe that with a FMB of similar complexity as that in RoF there will be more people to create missions for BOS than for RoF. 

 

I also have the feeling that quite a few underestimate the role of user made campaigns and server missions. Good and varying missions which is far more than just maps are the CORE of a well running and populated server. If the map cycle on a server repeats itself after every third, fourth or fifth map, people will loose quickly interest in a server. And it shall not be forgotten that servers can be the focal point of a community beyond the community on this forum. I firmly believe that if BoS shall one day play the same role as the original IL2 series we need a living server landscape with a whole bunch of online missions. This will only happen if the ordinary bloke can fairly easily create own missions without having to learn a tool that is highly complex. This will frighten off too many people - like me who has done a few online missions in original IL2. I like so many others simply don't have the time nor the will to spent all my rare spare time in learning a complex tool such as the FMB of RoF. Like many others I work full time to earn my living and in my spare time I still want to find some time for own flying and not only whrestling with a tool whose full potential I likely will never master. 

Edited April 21, 2014 by sturmkraehe

[II./JG27_Rich]

Fun until the jerky lag

[Rama]

But I think one would fall for an illusion to believe...

Ok, you take my bet?

Let's define the rules of the bet by PM if you want...

[Talisman]

Love flying the Lagg-3, but the lack of trim means that I am unable to keep the nose down and under control when flying fast, especially in a dive to pull out behind a 109.

Many times I would have shot down a LW aircraft by using the good dive and zoom speed capability of the Lagg-3, only to find that with my force feed-back joystick fully forward there is still no way to bring the nose under control to make the shot because I have not trim (

It is so much easier in the Bf 109 as we can use stabiliser trim, easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy.

I sincerely hope we get trim soon.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Indeed.

 

Although Jason did warn us not to let our expectations run away with us.

 

True that. I still expect it to be complicated... the system that runs missions is clearly more sophisticated than the one that IL-2 employs (which for better or worse is very simple).

 

Love flying the Lagg-3, but the lack of trim means that I am unable to keep the nose down and under control when flying fast, especially in a dive to pull out behind a 109.

Many times I would have shot down a LW aircraft by using the good dive and zoom speed capability of the Lagg-3, only to find that with my force feed-back joystick fully forward there is still no way to bring the nose under control to make the shot because I have not trim (

It is so much easier in the Bf 109 as we can use stabiliser trim, easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy.

I sincerely hope we get trim soon.

This is so true. Flying aircraft like the IL-2 and LaGG-3 are especially difficult right now without having elevator trim. Something that I hope to see sometime soon... frankly I'm a little surprised how long it has taken but I'm really not aware of the complexities involved so maybe it's something more complex than I think it is.

[KodiakJac]

has anyone said "COOP online war".................................

 

good old IL2 times in the early and mid 2000. Glad i was there, doubting all this will happen again IMHO.

What is a "coop" mission?

 

Thanks!

[ShamrockOneFive]

What is a "coop" mission?

 

Thanks!

 

In the old IL-2 context there was two types of online multiplayer environments. There was the dogfight server where a map would be loaded with homebases to select, aircraft would be flown from the home base, and stationary objects were placed on it. You could join a dogfight server at any time that it was running, jump in, select a plane, and fly.

 

In a coop you would need to join the coop at the beginning point. An array of flights would be available and you could select an aircraft in a flight. The AI would fly the other aircraft and the mission would begin with everyone loaded in who was going to fly. The mission would carry out and then end. No-one could join in the middle of a mission.

 

Later some of the coop features like AI aircraft and moving ships, vehicles and tanks were added to IL-2 1946 (this was called moving dogfight server or MDS). With MDS things weren't all that different than a coop except anyone could join at any time.

[KodiakJac]

The coop missions sound great...didn't know there was such a thing. I had always looked around at the SP campaigns in IL-2 1946 and thought "How come they can't load up these giant missions and let the AI fly what humans aren't flying." That has always been my dream - a living online world with AI planes coming and going and humans able to join in at any time, never knowing who you're approaching when you dive on an enemy con. Sounds like it was a reality and I didn't know it! Maybe someday is BoS!

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Love flying the Lagg-3, but the lack of trim means that I am unable to keep the nose down and under control when flying fast, especially in a dive to pull out behind a 109.

Many times I would have shot down a LW aircraft by using the good dive and zoom speed capability of the Lagg-3, only to find that with my force feed-back joystick fully forward there is still no way to bring the nose under control to make the shot because I have not trim (

It is so much easier in the Bf 109 as we can use stabiliser trim, easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy.

I sincerely hope we get trim soon.

I have the CH fighterstick so I kind of cheat and use the calibration wheels for trim. I know, I know you are not supposed to do it..but they are right there taunting me..a little scroll up or down and I'm level 

[Volkoff]

I have the CH fighterstick so I kind of cheat and use the calibration wheels for trim. I know, I know you are not supposed to do it..but they are right there taunting me..a little scroll up or down and I'm level 

 

Why is that cheating?  If i had such wheels on my Thrustmaster 16000M, I would certainly use the trim wheels. ​ I think that all new flight sim sticks should come with such a feature.   Good for you, that you take advantage of the built in capabilities of your joystick.   You paid for those capabilities, after all.  

 

MJ 

Edited April 21, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Revvin]

I have the CH fighterstick so I kind of cheat and use the calibration wheels for trim. I know, I know you are not supposed to do it..but they are right there taunting me..a little scroll up or down and I'm level 

 

You could make it even easier, just a button press to re-centre your joystick X and Y axis: http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php/topic/6748-auto-trim-example/?hl=trim

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

@MJ I call it cheating ..not game wise but CH wise because somewhere I read you calibrate it and leave the wheels alone. Like Rewin said I could just hit re -center. Thanks for the link to that BTW.

[Tab]

I have the CH fighterstick so I kind of cheat and use the calibration wheels for trim. I know, I know you are not supposed to do it..but they are right there taunting me..a little scroll up or down and I'm level 

this is what made me curious about software solution for recalibrating, here is how it can be used on any other joystick:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/5924-solution-trimming-lagg-3/

obviously no changes on-the-fly possible, so it works rather as ground-adjusted trim tabs (you need to restart the game to recalibrate) - disadvantage against CH, but hey, it's free

now add hotkeys for adjusting the center and poor man's CH trim wheels are done. I'd program this, but I'm sure we will get the real trims till I'm done.

It's interesting though, that you don't have to restart the game with CH for the new calibration to take effect.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Tab

[Revvin]

 

It's interesting though, that you don't have to restart the game with CH for the new calibration to take effect.

 

The trim wheels affect the physical positioning of the potentimeters in the stick which is why its advisable not to move them once the stick is calibrated as it could mess up the calibration but they are a bit of a throwback to the gameport range before the Control Manager software could change and filter the outputs on the USB range. The CMS code I posted a link to above allows you to re-centre as much as you like, it just recalculates on the fly. I'm pretty sure there is a way to do this with the TARGET scripting for Thrustmaster sticks too.