P-47

[Rei-sen]

It all began when I started an Operation Bodenplatte career, I choose my favorite US fighter - P-47. It felt wrong. You can't dogfight in it nor you can run away, even on 15 minute combat power. I'm not talking about boosted mode, since the timer is only 5 minutes which in most cases won't be enough to run away.

 
Then I did some duels in QMB in P-47 and A-20 against a Bf-109 G14. The results are attached as track files. There are only two of them, one for P-47 and the other one for A-20. I did more duels, but the results are similar to those ones on the tracks. A-20 can catch up with the 109 easily in a climb, can successfully turn with it. The Jug.. well, judge for yourselves.

Just want to mention. For A-20 I used 50% fuel, outlet cowls are 100% open. For the Jug - 30% fuel, inlet cowls closed, Intercooler and oil cooler are set to 50% (neutral).

 

Something is terribly wrong here..

A20vs109G14.zip

Due to 5mb limit, I'm uploading P-47 track as a separate post.

P47vs109G14.zip

[RedKestrel]

 You need to find documentary evidence that something is wrong, and provide that evidence to the devs along with a track and/or video in game showing that this is wrong. Comparative performances are not going to get anywhere. You have to show that the performance of the individual plane is wrong at a specific flight regime at specified engine settings. For example, If the climb rate of the P-47, A20 or 109G-14 is wrong, make a track setting up a climb as per the documents you find, and show it is wrong.

The P-47 we have is not the highest-performance version even for its time- the propeller is not the best for speed and climb and the bubble canopy robs you of some speed due to drag. The earlier razorback P-47D-22 we are likely to see in Battle of Normandy will likely be quite a bit faster, despite being an earlier model, due to the likely propeller choice and the reduced drag.

The general standard for the devs is within 5% of performance figures they use for the model they chose.

I'm not trying to be harsh but saying "it feels wrong" is not going to get anything changed, and dogfight tracks do not isolate issues with performance or flight models, they complicate them.



 

[Legioneod]

I've read reports and anecdotal evidence that the G series 109s were about on par with the P-47 in the turn. I've also read the Razorback was better at turning than the Bubbletops but I haven't found any factual documents to support this, just pilot accounts.

 

I've read that the Germans did a comparison of a captured P-47 Razorback and a G series 109, they said that they were similar in turn iirc and the 109 couldn't really outturn the Razorback.

Not sure how true any of this is though, it may be possible but there's variable that need to be considered.

 

Even this graphic/chart gives the impression that the G series weren't the most maneuverable 109.

This isn't scientific evidence of course, but it does coincide with pilot accounts.

 

Altitude, speed, weight, etc are some of the variable that need to be considered imo. I'm sure it's possible but under what conditions?

Edited February 19, 2020 by Legioneod

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Regardless of the FM issues there are, I just dont hope that you expect that a P-47 can effectively out turn a G-14 which is half the weight of the P-47.

And the P-47 can outrun the G-14 for a while. Well you have to be out of gunrange and on top speed already, but the P-47 is faster on the deck and much faster higher up.
You just cant win a fight which features accelerations.

Edited February 19, 2020 by DerSheriff

[Cpt_Siddy]

use flaps

[gimpy117]

On 2/18/2020 at 7:42 PM, Legioneod said:

I've read reports and anecdotal evidence that the G series 109s were about on par with the P-47 in the turn. I've also read the Razorback was better at turning than the Bubbletops but I haven't found any factual documents to support this, just pilot accounts.

 

I've read that the Germans did a comparison of a captured P-47 Razorback and a G series 109, they said that they were similar in turn iirc and the 109 couldn't really outturn the Razorback.

Not sure how true any of this is though, it may be possible but there's variable that need to be considered.

 

Even this graphic/chart gives the impression that the G series weren't the most maneuverable 109.

This isn't scientific evidence of course, but it does coincide with pilot accounts.

 

Altitude, speed, weight, etc are some of the variable that need to be considered imo. I'm sure it's possible but under what conditions?

i would be itching to see more comparisons like this...interesting that the 109 can hang with Russian fighters too in turns 

[=621=Samikatz]

5 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

i would be itching to see more comparisons like this...interesting that the 109 can hang with Russian fighters too in turns 

 

The 109 has very good acceleration at low speeds and the leading edge slats, so it tends to win in very low speed turning fights where it can sit on the edge of a stall. At medium speeds your average Yak will be a bit more agile. At very high speeds the 109 is very heavy to control, and it will be outmaneuvered by most of the Western Allied aircraft. For high speed fights the 190 has much better control authority