Had to chuckle.....

[Knarley-Bob]

OK, I'm new at this, granted. Have been trying out "New Tactics".  I'm off line, BoBP, 8 on 8 skirmish, and we be scrambling off the deck. So I decide this time, I'm gonna get off the deck, stay low in a straight line, burning coal, to stretch the "Bad guys " out. Well, the "Bad Guys" flew right past the rest of my flight, and were chasing me, all 8 of them! In a line! I felt like the only June bug in the farm yard, and every chicken had a bead on me. My poor little Mustang was runnin' for all she was worth, I doubled back, flew through the others in my flight, so did the herd of chickens chasing me. I never made it to the "2nd flight", got shredded by the lead planes in that pack of 8 on my tail. This IS getting entertaining I must say?.

KB

[BlitzPig_EL]

It's a known behavior of the AI.  They will focus on the human player to the exclusion of everything else.  Did you give your AI flight a command to attack?

It might have helped.

[PatrickAWlson]

8 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

It's a known behavior of the AI.  They will focus on the human player to the exclusion of everything else.  Did you give your AI flight a command to attack?

It might have helped.

 

They really don't focus on the human player (i.e. there is no code in the system that says "attack the human").  They will, however, get completely fixated.  Knarley Bob intentionally flew in a manner that attracted them.  it worked  

[BlitzPig_EL]

I dunno Patrick,  "fixated" or not, if this is how AI behave in a controlled environment, there is no way we should let them loose in the real world.

 

 

[Knarley-Bob]

And every one thinks the movie "Terminator" is just fiction.....?

[Stoopy]

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

...They will, however, get completely fixated.  Knarley Bob intentionally flew in a manner that attracted them.  it worked  

 

Oh sure, blame the victim!!

 

"My clients are innocent, your Honor, they would not have mugged and beaten this nice old lady* had she not been carrying a purse full of cash!"

 

* not meant to imply age or gender of Knarley-Bob

[RedKestrel]

5 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

Oh sure, blame the victim!!

 

"My clients are innocent, your Honor, they would not have mugged and beaten this nice old lady* had she not been carrying a purse full of cash!"

 

* not meant to imply age or gender of Knarley-Bob

"I am  inclined to be sympathetic, since Edith pulled out an 0.50 M2 and was only prevented from initiating suppressing fire by the fact that the weight of the ammo belt caused her to tip over. Sentence commuted to time served. However, I will not require Edith to replace the pants that you ruined - incontinence in the face of Ma Deuce is just something one has to put up with in life." *smacks gavel*

[Knarley-Bob]

57 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

 

* not meant to imply age or gender of Knarley-Bob

I will admit that I'm learning to fly like an "Old woman with a hot cup of tea between her knees"

Keeps me from pin wheeling into the ground so often.?

[Knarley-Bob]

New tactics...After another mission of being chased by the flight of 8 bad guys, the timer of course cut my engine power, to feed the chickens. So to out smart them, spotted a "blue" JEEP, spotters I believe. So, I cut the power, dropped the landing gear, and deployed my flaps. Landed close, with in walking distance, and figured they could give me a ride back to the airport. When the "Timer" "Recharges" I should be able to take off, and fly the plane back to the base in a couple days. Yes, I locked it up before I got into the JEEP.?

[GSP_Hund]

It seems you have an attractive 6 o'clock area . . .

[Gretsch_Man]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:31 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

They really don't focus on the human player (i.e. there is no code in the system that says "attack the human"). 

That may be so, but sometimes I can't help but think they really do the way they go straight after me, just ignoring the rest of my flight (even if I'm not the flight leader). But I gotta admit this won't happen on every mission. So there you go.

[PatrickAWlson]

Just now, Gretsch_Man said:

That may be so, but sometimes I can't help but think they really do the way they go straight after me, just ignoring the rest of my flight (even if I'm not the flight leader). But I gotta admit this won't happen on every mission. So there you go.

 

Don't be the first to dive in.  Let one of your AI mates do the dragging and you do the bagging.

[Gretsch_Man]

Just now, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Don't be the first to dive in.  Let one of your AI mates do the dragging and you do the bagging.

Oh yeah, I've given up on that "tactic" long time ago and it sort of works, well usually. 

[PatrickAWlson]

11 minutes ago, Gretsch_Man said:

Oh yeah, I've given up on that "tactic" long time ago and it sort of works, well usually. 

 

I think the AI thinks as an individual and not part of a team, so the idea that" three of my wing mates are already attacking him maybe I should do something else" ... doesn't really happen.

[Poochnboo]

On 2/14/2020 at 8:21 AM, BlitzPig_EL said:

It's a known behavior of the AI.  They will focus on the human player to the exclusion of everything else. 

Honestly, I haven't seen this to be true. I probably do the quick mission thing more than anything else in the game. I see seperate little dogfights going on all over the sky. The ai seem just as interested in each other as me. 

[BraveSirRobin]

On 2/14/2020 at 8:21 AM, BlitzPig_EL said:

It's a known behavior of the AI.  They will focus on the human player to the exclusion of everything else.  Did you give your AI flight a command to attack?

It might have helped.

The devs have said that that bug was fixed.

[Knarley-Bob]

Changed air field, and paint job. Got 9 in past two flights combined. They were set on "Veteran".  A little more fun not running for your life the whole time.

I'm getting better at NOT bending prop blades when I land too!?

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

"Get the intruder! Destroy the humanoid!"

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by HeavyCavalrySgt
misquoted

[Knarley-Bob]

This is getting ridiculous... Think I'm going to find something else to do. Might as well take on  8 right off the get go. Thought it would be good practice for multiplayer, but if all one does is run for his life...?‍♂️

18 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

The devs have said that that bug was fixed.

Can't prove that by me.....

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, Knarley-Bob said:

Can't prove that by me.....

Most likely you’re doing something that makes the enemy AI see you as the most serious threat.  Let your AI wingmen attack while you try to pick off isolated AI.

[Knarley-Bob]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Most likely you’re doing something that makes the enemy AI see you as the most serious threat.  Let your AI wingmen attack while you try to pick off isolated AI.

I guess I can't argue that point. Watched 5 AI Mustangs chase one FW 190 in circles for quite a while, I was orbiting, out of ammo. I finally flew to base and landed. The hunt was still on. The last mission tho, I flew the opposite direction of the bad guys, cut back behind my "wingmen" and 2nd flight, even tried a touch and go off the airfield, to no avail.

So, what is one to do to remedy the situation? Any ideas?

Edited February 16, 2020 by Knarley-Bob

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, Knarley-Bob said:

So, what is one to do to remedy the situation? Any ideas?

 

Sorry.  I usually had no problem using the wingmen as bait, but I haven't played SP in a few years.  Maybe the bug is back.

Maybe fly towards your wingmen when the enemy AI fixate on you.  They'll either go after your wingmen or maybe your wingmen will help you.

[Knarley-Bob]

31 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Sorry.  I usually had no problem using the wingmen as bait, but I haven't played SP in a few years.  Maybe the bug is back.

Maybe fly towards your wingmen when the enemy AI fixate on you.  They'll either go after your wingmen or maybe your wingmen will help you.

I tried going toward the enemy at first, then I'll circle around  the  base, My "wingmen" go for the enemy, I fly in continuous mode till the 2nd flight starts to take off. It's like herding cats, but it seems to work. I feel kind of funny using my "wingmen" as bait, but at least they are doing SOMETHING for me. Flying the perimeter, picking off planes that leave the "bait ball" works pretty well.?

Thanks,

KB

Edited February 16, 2020 by Knarley-Bob

[Gretsch_Man]

3 hours ago, Knarley-Bob said:

Any ideas?

Are you by any chance been flying as the flight leader? If you did, try flying as a wingman instead. Not been the flight leader seems to increase the chances that the AI won't concentrate on you as much. But of course you'll still have to use your AI buddies as bait. There's no way around that.

[Knarley-Bob]

16 minutes ago, Gretsch_Man said:

Are you by any chance been flying as the flight leader? If you did, try flying as a wingman instead. Not been the flight leader seems to increase the chances that the AI won't concentrate on you as much. But of course you'll still have to use your AI buddies as bait. There's no way around that.

O.K. How do you do that?

[Gretsch_Man]

1 hour ago, Knarley-Bob said:

O.K. How do you do that?

When you are in the planning room, you'll see a flight rooster for the upcoming mission. On the right side there are arrow buttons, with which you can change the position of each flight member. So for you to be flying as a wingman, make sure you're not on top of that flight rooster. That's it.

However I think this will only work when you are the squadron leader. Otherwise, you may not be able to change positions.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Gretsch_Man

[Gambit21]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:31 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

They really don't focus on the human player (i.e. there is no code in the system that says "attack the human").  They will, however, get completely fixated.  Knarley Bob intentionally flew in a manner that attracted them.  it worked  

 

It’s a ‘bug’ that has come and gone.

 

I made a mission demonstrating this a few years ago when it popped up and sent to Han. He acknowledged the issue and next update it was fixed - so there is some ‘under the hood’ code that can cause this behavior apparently. I haven’t seen it recently, at least not to where I can repeat it in tests.

[Yogiflight]

8 hours ago, Knarley-Bob said:

O.K. How do you do that?

Just don't start a career as squadron leader, then you will start with the lowest rank and it will take quite some time until you will be flying as no. 1 in a flight.

[Gretsch_Man]

46 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Just don't start a career as squadron leader, then you will start with the lowest rank and it will take quite some time until you will be flying as no. 1 in a flight.

That doesn't make sense...

[kendo]

Why...?

[=FEW=fernando11]

16 hours ago, Knarley-Bob said:

This is getting ridiculous... Think I'm going to find something else to do. Might as well take on  8 right off the get go. Thought it would be good practice for multiplayer, but if all one does is run for his life...?‍♂️

Can't prove that by me.....

If your idea is to practice for multiplayer, dont take too long, just go for it.

You might be an expert, and still strugle on MP at first.

 It does pay off to know how to start. Take off. Land.

Even better if you can orient yourself and navigate.

 

Other than that, SP might give you the basics of gunnery and deflection.

 

But the way combat evolves in SP and MP has little in common.

 

*Pro tip, GET a wingman, that is a game changer!

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, Gretsch_Man said:

That doesn't make sense...

The question was, how to avoid to be the flightleader, or did I understand something wrong? If you don't want to be the flightleader in career missions, start with the lowest rank. The pilot with the lowest rank can never be the flightleader. Even with the second lowest rank, there are still enough pilots with a higher rank than you who will lead the flight. It simply is not the way, the seargent is flightleader and the captain is following his orders.

[Georgio]

In that situation I always prefer to be the flight leader and tell the flight to hunt air units, then pick the bad guys off everyone else.

I always go after the AI flight leader as invariably they're the most skilled/aggressive anyways.

[falle96]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:11 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I think the AI thinks as an individual and not part of a team, so the idea that" three of my wing mates are already attacking him maybe I should do something else" ... doesn't really happen.

I observed a red-on-red a few weeks ago that I think proves this. Two aircraft in my flight picked the same ground target, lined up a strafing run, and one didn't realize that their bullets were hitting the other (due to the angle one fighter was directly below and just in front of the other so that the higher fighter's ordinance was striking the lower fighter's engine block).

 

I'm not sure what you could really do to resolve such a problem, but hopefully a solution is found in time.

[Yogiflight]

In a fighter career mission my flightleader killed a Pe 2, plus the two squadmates, who were attacking the same Pe 2, flying in front of him, with one burst. He received the EK I after this mission.

[Knarley-Bob]

40 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

In a fighter career mission my flightleader killed a Pe 2, plus the two squadmates, who were attacking the same Pe 2, flying in front of him, with one burst. He received the EK I after this mission.

??

[falle96]

I'd love for a dev diary or something along those lines specifically about how AI in IL-2 works. Not really just to like armchair developer and go "oh well all you have to do is fix this," but more to just understand why the computer does the things it does. I remember they talked about it a long time ago, back during Stalingrad development (iirc), but I don't know if there have been in-depth discussions about it recently, at least on the English-speakers forum.

[69th_Bazzer]

16 hours ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

If your idea is to practice for multiplayer, dont take too long, just go for it.

You might be an expert, and still strugle on MP at first.

 It does pay off to know how to start. Take off. Land.

Even better if you can orient yourself and navigate.

 

Other than that, SP might give you the basics of gunnery and deflection.

 

But the way combat evolves in SP and MP has little in common.

 

*Pro tip, GET a wingman, that is a game changer!

All this. The only real solution to AI not flying like real people is flying against real people. The only good practice for MP is MP.