Using Tigers, Panthers optical range finder?

[Tom25briklebritt]

Please is there any tutorial or help to find correct target range with german tanks by using the range finder when in gunners position?

[namhee2]

8 minutes ago, Tom25briklebritt said:

Please is there any tutorial or help to find correct target range with german tanks by using the range finder when in gunners position?

Do you think something like that?

[Tom25briklebritt]

Perfect, thanks!

[JG27_Steini]

It says that GUNNER never should estimate the distance. Because of changing zoom level in the optics they ofter might be wrong. Distance has to be given by commander. I know that is is not possible in TC so far. I also was suprised. 

[Koenigstiger]

Hello and good morning,

 

many German tank commanders used a scissors telescope (Scherenfernrohr) to determine the distance for the shot better and faster. For this most tanks had an attachment on the inside of the commander's cupola.

 

 

Greetings ?

Edited February 3, 2020 by Koenigstiger

[Lofte]

On 2/2/2020 at 3:12 PM, Tom25briklebritt said:

Please is there any tutorial or help to find correct target range with german tanks by using the range finder when in gunners position?

Just remember 1 simple rule: IF height of big trinagle = height of T-34 => distance is ~600-700 m (depends on version). Thats enough to hit enemy at range 0-1000 with first shot.

 

 

Found a manual here:  Zheriz_Ziess_Sight_Guide.pdf

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Lofte

[MikhaVT]

5 hours ago, Lofte said:

Just remember 1 simple rule: IF height of big trinagle = height of T-34 => distance is 700 m. Thats enough to hit enemy at range 0-1000 with first shot.

Great tip!

 

I've been wondering why the German sights use the length and width of tanks for their targeting. It seems like using target height would be more effective since most perspectives have the target height the same (only changing if at different elevations or if the target is on a slope) plus the gunner would only need to memorize one dimension on each enemy tank. The T-72 and early T-80 tanks used this for ranging without the laser range finder. 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Kataphrakt

[Katowiz]

SCHERENFERNROHR?

Who needs a SCHERENFERNROHR?

[VSN_Razor]

59 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

Great tip!

 

I've been wondering why the German sights use the length and width of tanks for their targeting. It seems like using target height would be more effective since most perspectives have the target height the same (only changing if at different elevations or if the target is on a slope) plus the gunner would only need to memorize one dimension on each enemy tank. The T-72 and early T-80 tanks used this for ranging without the laser range finder. 

 

 

They also use the height, as it is noted in the Pantherfibel (post Nr.2) for example.

[JimTM]

 

From I Fly Central:

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by JimTM

[Yogiflight]

9 hours ago, Kataphrakt said:

I've been wondering why the German sights use the length and width of tanks for their targeting. It seems like using target height would be more effective since most perspectives have the target height the same

You very often can not see the complete height of the tank. It might be behind the top of a hill or in high grass, so you can not see the wheels completely and would have to guess where the tank starts.

17 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

It says that GUNNER never should estimate the distance. Because of changing zoom level in the optics they ofter might be wrong. Distance has to be given by commander. I know that is is not possible in TC so far. I also was suprised. 

What changing zoom level. The German tanks we have in the game so far, all had one magnification for the gunsight. Even when it has two magnifications, like the gunsight of the IFV, I learned gunnery on, you only use the higher magnification for shooting, so you don't have to bother about the different perspective of the lower magnification. At distances up to 1000m guessing is a pretty good method, when you have some exercise. I only really measured distances, when I learned gunnery, after that I only guessed the distances. You are much faster this way.

[JG27_Steini]

5 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

You very often can not see the complete height of the tank. It might be behind the top of a hill or in high grass, so you can not see the wheels completely and would have to guess where the tank starts.

What changing zoom level. The German tanks we have in the game so far, all had one magnification for the gunsight. Even when it has two magnifications, like the gunsight of the IFV, I learned gunnery on, you only use the higher magnification for shooting, so you don't have to bother about the different perspective of the lower magnification. At distances up to 1000m guessing is a pretty good method, when you have some exercise. I only really measured distances, when I learned gunnery, after that I only guessed the distances. You are much faster this way.

 

I only translated the "Tiger Fibel". It says that only commander (or driver) tells the distance to target. Gunner will be wrong. See "Tiger Fibel" Page 68. It says that you need two eyes to get the distance correctly. 

[Buggeredsteel823]

The game does tell you the range you push I ( I think it is)you ammo count, fuel,and so forth comes up  the other  way you could  do it to switch to the MG/HE sight but the later  is easyer because it  shows  you the range  above the player/AI icon. 

[JG27_Steini]

10 hours ago, Buggeredsteel823 said:

The game does tell you the range you push I ( I think it is)you ammo count, fuel,and so forth comes up  the other  way you could  do it to switch to the MG/HE sight but the later  is easyer because it  shows  you the range  above the player/AI icon. 

 

Ah, what? How does the game tells me the distance in Expert Mode?

[Lofte]

On 2/4/2020 at 9:21 AM, JG27_Steini said:

I only translated the "Tiger Fibel". It says that only commander (or driver) tells the distance to target. Gunner will be wrong. See "Tiger Fibel" Page 68. It says that you need two eyes to get the distance correctly. 

I think it relates to measurement with optic without sighting grid.

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Lofte said:

On 2/4/2020 at 7:21 AM, JG27_Steini said:

I only translated the "Tiger Fibel". It says that only commander (or driver) tells the distance to target. Gunner will be wrong. See "Tiger Fibel" Page 68. It says that you need two eyes to get the distance correctly. 

I think it relates to measurement with optic without sighting grid.

Well, from my experiences in german army, however not in the Wehrmacht, it might more have to do with the thinking normal soldiers are too stupid to measure distances with the gunsight, and/or the simple regulation, that the commander gives the orders, which includes, the commander is telling the gunner how far away the target is. This has to do with the fact, that usually the commander is the one with more experience and the better training.

[JG27_Steini]

Wrong, the gunner uses one eye. Commander uses two eyes. As for all predator animals it is much easier to get the distance in 3D then in 2D.

[Lofte]

25 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

Wrong, the gunner uses one eye. Commander uses two eyes. As for all predator animals it is much easier to get the distance in 3D then in 2D.

If gunner so disabled person why they gave him sighting grid? Much chipper to make visor with simple cross like that: +

All what a gunner have to do is to hear commander and point his gun's crossing on target.

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

Wrong, the gunner uses one eye. Commander uses two eyes. As for all predator animals it is much easier to get the distance in 3D then in 2D.

Sporry, but this is completely wrong. It doesn't matter if you see the markings with one eyes or two. Speric vision doesn't work further than a few maters, IIRC it is about five meters. To see speric further you would need a head like a hammerhead. Everything you 'see' as speric in larger distances is purely done by your brain.

I was commander of an IFV, so I experienced both viewing through binoculars with both eyes and viewing through a gunsight with one eye. There is absolutely no difference in measuring or guessing distances.

[JG27_Steini]

13 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Sporry, but this is completely wrong. It doesn't matter if you see the markings with one eyes or two. Speric vision doesn't work further than a few maters, IIRC it is about five meters. To see speric further you would need a head like a hammerhead. Everything you 'see' as speric in larger distances is purely done by your brain.

I was commander of an IFV, so I experienced both viewing through binoculars with both eyes and viewing through a gunsight with one eye. There is absolutely no difference in measuring or guessing distances.

 

You can not always use markings. It works only perfect with the correct degree and flat ground. I trust here the official tank manuell, not your opinion. Because it was the official standard in german tank training. Of course in game everything is different.

Edited February 6, 2020 by JG27_Steini

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

You can not always use markings. It works only perfect with the correct degree and flat ground. I trust here the official tank manuell, not your opinion. Because it was the official standard in german tank training. Of course in game everything is different.

Feel free to do so. Just one question. What do you think, which way did the commander measure the distance to the target. Don't you think he did it with markings, too? That the gunner should trust in the distance, the commander announced, was surely, as I stated in a post above, because the commander had more experience and the better training.

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

Feel free to do so. Just one question. What do you think, which way did the commander measure the distance to the target. Don't you think he did it with markings, too? That the gunner should trust in the distance, the commander announced, was surely, as I stated in a post above, because the commander had more experience and the better training.

 

Of course he does. Wait for the binocular for the commander. In germany army i had the same markings for my binoculars.  Of course the gunner uses the markings to get the distance, but the commander has the same markings and he has 3D vision. So at first step it is his job. As you sure know the commander tells the target and the estimatet distance. Another point is that you can see the target angle much better in 3D as in 2D. Again i am talking abount reality (or virtual 3D). In game we only have 2D.

[Lofte]

14 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

but the commander has the same markings and he has 3D vision

 correct me if I wrong, but early version of tiger had BInocular gunsight, hadn't it?)

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, JG27_Steini said:

Another point is that you can see the target angle much better in 3D as in 2D

Again, you can't see 3d on a distance of 1000m. Someone who is better in mathematics than me, might calculate, how the angle changes between 2d vision, where it is 90° and 3d vision, with a distance to the target of 1000m viewed with two eyes with a distance of 0.06- 0.07m. The angle will be that close to 90°, that you will need a laser to measure it. The main advantage, sorry, I forgot to mention it before, the commander's binocular had a magnification of 6x (or 5x, I don't know for sure), while the gunsight of the first Tiger version only had 2.5x magnification. The later versions were improved to 5x magnification for the gunsight. Unfortunately I don't know about the Panther and the Ferdinand.

[MikhaVT]

On 2/5/2020 at 12:35 PM, Yogiflight said:

Sporry, but this is completely wrong. It doesn't matter if you see the markings with one eyes or two. Speric vision doesn't work further than a few maters, IIRC it is about five meters. To see speric further you would need a head like a hammerhead. Everything you 'see' as speric in larger distances is purely done by your brain.

I was commander of an IFV, so I experienced both viewing through binoculars with both eyes and viewing through a gunsight with one eye. There is absolutely no difference in measuring or guessing distances.

Not to argue -- as i have read multiple things agreeing with the inability of human eyes to see "in 3D" beyond around 7-8 meters -- Just to give a fun-fact: some people do have "funky" eyes where their individual eyesight is worse than when both eyes are open. As someone who has such "funky" eyes, looking through binoculars with one eye closed provides worse image quality than looking through with both eyes open. 

 

Because of this when i go shooting i find scopes up to 4x to be almost useless compared to just looking through the sights with both eyes open. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Kataphrakt

[Buggeredsteel823]

On 2/5/2020 at 8:50 PM, JG27_Steini said:

 

Ah, what? How does the game tells me the distance in Expert Mode?

what?

 

[1312shredo84]

hey folks!

i have a problem with range finder on german tanks.when i use the range finder it makes too big stepps if that make any sense (e.g. jumps from 0 to 300 to 600 to 900

to 1200 etc.I bought il2 bos over steam , had tank crew bought over their website.In my tank crew install the range finder made steps of 100m)

Is there a specific option that adjust the range finding steps?

Help woud be much appreciated because it makes aiming impossible over large distances

[MajorMagee]

It sounds like a key repeat speed problem on your system's keyboard. I just checked on mine and I can click press the key combination 14-16 times before the sight reports reaching the next 50 m increment. If I hold the key combo down it rotates smoothly up ( Right Alt + , ) and down ( Right Alt + ; ) the scale.

[moustache]

there is now a telemetry system? or tell you about the graduated system in the riflescope?

[MajorMagee]

To see reports about what the sight is set to turn on Settings, Basic Options, In Game Messages, Technical. With each 50m increment change, a message will briefly pop up along the right side of the screen. This is really helpful if you are zoomed in on the sight so far that the scale numbers are hidden. It also reports the range changes for each individual scale on the reticle related to the different ammo types.

 

Service to the line,

One the line,

On time!

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2024 by MajorMagee

[moustache]

Aaah, yes, okay, you were talking about the system that has been there from the beginning... I had the hope that it had integrated a new distance calculation system, or even scissor telemeters

[1312shredo84]

figured it out guys...

the sensitivity setting in options regulates it.