Hurricane vs desert version

[LUZITANO]

When someone goes to buy the Hurricane, his shadow is the standard version, not the tropical

The carburetor air intake is small, but the desert version is huge and causes drag

The Battle of Normandy will bring an ideal map to fly with the standard version of Hurricane in the English Channel...

So ... why are we getting the desert version? 

I'm starting to think that the only reason we're getting the desert version is that the next Tank Crew is probably going to be the battle of El Alamein, where the HurricaneMk.IId/Tropical version was used

 

[AndyJWest]

Where have the developers said that we are only getting the desert version?

[HBPencil]

42 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

I'm starting to think that the only reason we're getting the desert version is that the next Tank Crew is probably going to be the battle of El Alamein, where the HurricaneMk.IId/Tropical version was used

I disagree, a search for photos of Soviet Hurricanes show them with both the Vokes filter (as shown in the w.i.p photos) and also the normal temperate intake so I can see why the devs have included it. I hope we get both options and until the devs say otherwise we can't draw any conclusions. Also worth remembering that the Hurricane is being included for the Eastern front, not the BoN map.

[LUZITANO]

1 hour ago, HBPencil said:

I disagree, a search for photos of Soviet Hurricanes show them with both the Vokes filter (as shown in the w.i.p photos) and also the normal temperate intake so I can see why the devs have included it. I hope we get both options and until the devs say otherwise we can't draw any conclusions. Also worth remembering that the Hurricane is being included for the Eastern front, not the BoN map.

The Hurricane is incluide for Eastern and Western front, but is more a Western variant since is 4x diferent britges variantes and 1 Soviet. Of course Russians did not used the D version, so... this version is for desert at least. Hurris fly over France and UK, why not on BON map?
 

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

Where have the developers said that we are only getting the desert version?

Check Dev Diary 237

 

[AndyJWest]

Yes, I've seen that. But it doesn't say that they are only doing the desert version. The screenshots are work in progress, and may not show every option.

[LUZITANO]

5 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Yes, I've seen that. But it doesn't say that they are only doing the desert version. The screenshots are work in progress, and may not show every option.

If it's a "super" version of Hurricane ... I'm happy
Now about the "D" version... was used only in North Africa, as far as I can remember

[HBPencil]

49 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

The Hurricane is incluide for Eastern and Western front, but is more a Western variant since is 4x diferent britges variantes and 1 Soviet. Of course Russians did not used the D version, so... this version is for desert at least. Hurris fly over France and UK, why not on BON map?

Ok, I read the DD again and you are right that the Hurricane is for both East and West fronts in game.

According to this page the Soviets did get the IId: http://www.airpages.ru/eng/uk/hurr2_2.shtml

Edited January 25, 2020 by HBPencil

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

there was a lot of dust in summer on airfields in the soviet union ...... a dust filter might be usefull to save the engines.

 

but without a doubt, both versions would be nice having the BoN map in mind!

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

The Hurricane is incluide for Eastern and Western front, but is more a Western variant since is 4x diferent britges variantes and 1 Soviet.

 

The Soviets used every single model that is being created.

Edited January 25, 2020 by LukeFF

[AndyJWest]

Just to resolve the issue of whether we are getting the version with the standard intake as well as the tropical one, it should be noted that the thread announcing the Hurricane pre-order shows screenshots of a WIP model with the standard one. I think its safe to assume they wouldn't have modelled it if they didn't intend it to be used.

As for why the Soviets got a mix, some with and some without, I suspect it may have been a case of them being sent whatever was available. The Hurricanes were amongst the first aircraft they got from the western allies, and at the time it was probably seen as more urgent to deliver them quickly than to worry about details. Later on, lend-lease got a lot more organised. Wikipedia has some numbers, cited to the British archives:

 

mark IIA: 218 sent to Russia or handed over, 22 lost before arrival

mark IIB: 1,884 sent or handed over, 278 lost before arrival

mark IIC: 1,182 sent or handed over, 46 lost before arrival, 117 rejected

mark IID: 60 sent or handed over, 14 rejected

mark IV:  30 handed over

 

total 3,374 Hurricanes sent or handed over, 346 lost before delivery, 2,897 accepted by the Russians, 131 rejected

 

The 'handed over' aircraft will include those that were originally flown by No. 151 Wing RAF, which operated from the Kola peninsula from September to November 1941,  during  Operation Benedict,  first flying the aircraft themselves, and later helping to train Soviet groundcrew and pilots on the Hurricane.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hurricane#Air_defence_in_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Benedict

 

From Wikipedia, a nice photo of Hurricane Mark IIBs of No. 134 Squadron RAF, at Murmansk-Vaenga airfield. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by AndyJWest

[Trooper117]

The initial batch of Hurri's sent over on lend lease had the Vokes filter fitted so it is entirely right for the eastern front

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

and the performance lost was not that big IIRC

The individual state of an aircraft was more important.

Edited January 25, 2020 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[BlackSix]

Desert version will be an optional modification for all Hurricanes except Mk.IId where it will be the only and standard modification.

[BMA_FlyingShark]

3 minutes ago, BlackSix said:

except Mk.IId where it will be the only and standard modification.

I think that is because the MK.IId only existed as a desert version.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

The initial batch of Hurri's sent over on lend lease had the Vokes filter fitted so it is entirely right for the eastern front

 

The Operation Benedict ones in the photo above certainly seem to have them.  Here's a VVS Hurricane (with Soviet armament) that didn't. Nice to have the option, as there aren't a lot of photos of Hurri's on the eastern front, and skinners will no doubt want to get it right:

 

A quote from the Wikipedia article on Operation Benedict, perhaps indicating the haste by which it had been organised:

Quote

On 28 August, the men at Archangelsk formed an Erection Party (sic) of 36 men under the engineer-officer Flt/Lt Gittins and Warrant Officer Hards. The men went by boat to Keg Ostrov and found fifteen crates on a mud flat near the hangars. One crate was emptied to accommodate the wireless section and then the men found that some types of specialist tools had been omitted from the maintenance kits but that tropical insulation covers for the engines had been included. A Russian engineer officer improvised airscrew and spark-plug spanners in the airfield workshop and later built proper engine covers, with a trunk underneath for a "hot air lorry" to boost the temperature of the engine.^[13]

 

I'm not sure what 'tropical insulation covers' were. Maybe some sort of blanket to keep the sun off? Not much use in Murmansk, anyway.

 

Entirely off-topic, but I spotted this little gem in a footnote to the same article:

Quote

While the Hurricanes were escorting the bombers [Pe 2s attacking a bridge], [No 151 Wing c/o] Ramsbottom-Isherwood had to decide what to do with Corporal Flockhart, who it was discovered, had sneaked off and flown as an air-gunner in a Russian bomber. Not catered for in King's Regulations, Ramsbottom-Isherwood told him "Personally, I admire your spirit. Personally, I think it's a bloody good show. But all the same, if you had got shot down you'd have put me in the soup, see? Now get out!"

 

The only relevant RAF records I can find that might relate to this brave but perhaps foolish Corporal are for a David Flockhart (by then a Flight Sergeant) who sadly died in July 1942 (on a Liberator which crash landed returning from a raid on Tobruk), and is buried in Khyat Beach War Cemetery, in what was then Palestine. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by AndyJWest

[Avimimus]

33 minutes ago, BlackSix said:

Desert version will be an optional modification for all Hurricanes except Mk.IId where it will be the only and standard modification.

 

Since you are giving more details - any hope of having the VVS mods be able to remove some of the guns (i.e. reducing armament to 2xShVAK or 4xUB or 6x0.303) to produce a lighter dogfighter (as was apparently done)?

 

I think this is the last time I'll mention it - but it would expand gameplay and not take up too much resources if it isn't already planned.

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The Soviets used every single model that is being created.

 

Yeah, it was a long time since I'd looked into it - and I was surprised that 64 IID were accepted into service! That gives it an even heavier armament than the crew who left in 4x0.303 when installing the ShVAK, UBs, bombs and rockets! A real Shturmovik (albeit without the armouring).

Edited January 25, 2020 by Avimimus

[LUZITANO]

Close the topic. Case solved!

And Congratulations to 1C as it is not just a Hurricane, there are several!

I'm still a little curious about version D, because as far as I remember the most notable performance of this variant was in El Alamein using the tropical version

And that leads me to other questions as well ... Will the other planes that have tropical versions receive them as modifications, like the 109 or Spitfire V?

 

[AndyJWest]

16 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

... Will the other planes that have tropical versions receive them as modifications, like the 109 or Spitfire V?

 

 

I doubt it, since we don't have a map where the tropical Spits and 109s served.

[Avimimus]

48 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

And that leads me to other questions as well ... Will the other planes that have tropical versions receive them as modifications, like the 109 or Spitfire V?

 

I think it is more that the IID which were tropicalised already were shipped to the Soviet Union? Although the Soviet Union might have had tropical filters for other versions too (lots of rough field use... and there are some deserts in the far east).

 

If you want the Mediterranean tropicalised aircraft - I think picking up Team Fusion's 5.0 "Tobruk" is the way to go.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Avimimus

[Enceladus828]

2 hours ago, BlackSix said:

Desert version will be an optional modification for all Hurricanes except Mk.IId where it will be the only and standard modification.

AFAIK, the areas covered in this game would not see use of the Tropical/Desert version of the Hurricane, so out of curiosity why add it (as of right now) as it created additional drag? 

 

Other than that keep up the good work. The Hurricane and the planeset for BON is excellent and should appeal to many.?

Edited January 25, 2020 by Novice-Flyer

[DD_Arthur]

3 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

AFAIK, the areas covered in this game would not see the Tropical/Desert version of the Hurricane, so out of curiosity why add them (as of right now) as it created additional drag? 

 

Because the Soviets used all these versions.  For the mk.IID it was standard factory fitment.

 

I should think the Volkes filter proved a pretty useful fitment for units based out on the steppe in the summer months. 

[Chief_Mouser]

Here's a good article on Soviet usage of the Hurricane.

https://vvsairwar.com/2018/06/20/the-soviet-unions-hawker-hurricanes/

Oh for a Murmansk map - I loved mixx's repaint in IL-2 46, spent many a happy hour building and flying missions on that.

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by No.322_Red_Cat

[LUZITANO]

57 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

I doubt it, since we don't have a map where the tropical Spits and 109s served.

but the 109 tropical was also used in Russia
 

27 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I think picking up Team Fusion's 5.0 "Tobruk" is the way to go.

this is taking too long

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I don't know specifically where but in some areas of the USSR the dust was a concern. If you check the IL-2 1941 vs IL-2 1942 it gets a supercharger intake dust filter to operate in these conditions (it is a bit slower). And when the La-7 entered service with it's wing root intake it had reliability problems because of dust ingestion compared to the previous La-5 models with their intake at the top of the cowling.