DCS

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I genuinely feel for ED though. WW2 was the consequence of giving friends a chance to bounce back, yet these spent all the money from the Kickstarter and delivered next to nothing. ED had to take over a project that was never finished and had major promises made, and finish it to honour the pre-orders. It's understandable that they are treating it like a secondary thing not to derail their own projects.

[JG5_Zesphr]

I genuinely feel for ED though. WW2 was the consequence of giving friends a chance to bounce back, yet these spent all the money from the Kickstarter and delivered next to nothing. ED had to take over a project that was never finished and had major promises made, and finish it to honour the pre-orders. It's understandable that they are treating it like a secondary thing not to derail their own projects.

TBF that is a good point, they did get quite shafted with it 

[Rolling_Thunder]

I genuinely feel for ED though. WW2 was the consequence of giving friends a chance to bounce back, yet these spent all the money from the Kickstarter and delivered next to nothing. ED had to take over a project that was never finished and had major promises made, and finish it to honour the pre-orders. It's understandable that they are treating it like a secondary thing not to derail their own projects.

 

[Edited]

 

Not here. Discuss the sim and leave the comments on the devs elsewhere.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Bearcat

[DB605]

[Edited]

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Bearcat

[Rolling_Thunder]

[ZachariasX]

This is a rather funny recursion.

[Monostripezebra]

One thing, I hope for in future DCS updates are more dynamic pool parties.. currently in Las Vegas, it´s dam stiff crowd!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZaylpzhI08

[Feathered_IV]

[Edited]

 

I imagine Jason will discover that he has earned himself a perma-ban, if he ever tries to log into the DCS forums. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Bearcat

[Archie]

Just really feel like I wasted all the money I put into DCS over the last few years.

[DD_Arthur]

Tough crowd Dr. Z.  Not even a ripple of applause    

[Trooper117]

Just really feel like I wasted all the money I put into DCS over the last few years.

 

I don't feel that way at all... I have all their WWII aircraft, I have the Normandy map etc plus the campaign.

I've had fun with it and getting to grips with flying the aircraft, don't regret it one bit 

[Stig]

One thing, I hope for in future DCS updates are more dynamic pool parties.. currently in Las Vegas, it´s dam stiff crowd!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZaylpzhI08

 

Maybe they'll loosen up if some water get's pumped into the pool. 

[Silver_Dragon]

HeatBlur F-14 Tomcat Develop Update

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=196159

[Monostripezebra]

Maybe they'll loosen up if some water get's pumped into the pool. 

 

Three cheers and hoooray for dynamic pool water, bikini-physics and inflateable swimanimals!

[Gambit21]

Due to a radically different financial landscape in relation to WWII and it's importance to the success of the respective companies, DCS crew does not need to be a success in the WWII department the way 777/1C does.

This reality is starkly reflected in the output of each company, and the disparity between the two is going to keep widening.

 

DCS has just become arguably irrelevant in the realm of WWII. I'm sure they'll keep slowly (emphasis on that word mind you) churning out content but they're about to be repeatedly lapped in this department.

I wish them success with their other products, helicopters, modern jets etc.

 

The fact is that they had plenty of time, but with regard to WWII they just never had their eye on the ball, and they finally took a 90 mph fastball to the face.

I'm reminded of a Chris Tucker line from the movie Friday...how did that go again?

[Archie]

DCS should have done Korea, and forgotten all about WW2. The MiG 15 is just about my favourite module, but the whole DCS set up is just one big muddle.
 

What I think will happen in the future is DCS will just let WW2 fade away and concentrate on jets and heli's, which it does well, and BoX will have the WW1, WW2, and if DCS are not careful, the early jet market sewn up.

[DSR_A-24]

Initially I thought DCS WW2 was gone for good. Now that I think about it DCS still has the advantage of having unrivaled flight models. They will also have an actual WW2 map + a new damage model, possibly more complex than IL2's. They only advantages IL2 hold are over is visual gore(immersion) + more planes to fly. According to the Q&A, Bodenplatte is expected to launch in late 2019. This basically gives 2 years to add the P-47 and visual gore. 

[JG5_Zesphr]

I think a Vietnam one would be the best choice with the MiG-15 and 21, MiG-19 inbound and the huey, Sabre and upcoming phantom  

[Trooper117]

Initially I thought DCS WW2 was gone for good. Now that I think about it DCS still has the advantage of having unrivaled flight models. They will also have an actual WW2 map + a new damage model, possibly more complex than IL2's. They only advantages IL2 hold are over is visual gore(immersion) + more planes to fly. According to the Q&A, Bodenplatte is expected to launch in late 2019. This basically gives 2 years to add the P-47 and visual gore. 

 

I'm pretty sure you are wrong there... What the BoS platform needs is constant cash input, and if it takes 2 yrs to put out that title I'm not sure how the dev's will be paying their bills and feeding their kids.

Also remember, the Tank side does not appeal to everyone, neither does Flying Circus (WWI) appeal to every WWII enthusiast... 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

DCS still has the advantage of having unrivaled flight models.

 

-snip- 

 

I completely disagree. I own nearly all of the content (minus anything that has come out in the last 12 months) and have flown them all enough to arrive at a completely different conclusion.

 

DCS' flight models are exaggerated caricatures and the whole physics engine seems to lack the fluid dynamics modeling that makes the IL-2 FM so great.

 

The only... and I mean the only thing DCS does better is systems modeling assuming that is somebody's cup of tea.

[Brano]

I thought Mi-24 Hind might make me to install DCS again in near/far future. But their decision to not include Crimea (insert here whatever political correctness bullshait reason) in upcoming revamped Black See map made me to reconsider.

[Brano]

I completely disagree. I own nearly all of the content (minus anything that has come out in the last 12 months) and have flown them all enough to arrive at a completely different conclusion.

 

DCS' flight models are exaggerated caricatures and the whole physics engine seems to lack the fluid dynamics modeling that makes the IL-2 FM so great.

 

The only... and I mean the only thing DCS does better is systems modeling assuming that is somebody's cup of tea.

 

On top of it,Andrey Solomykin alias Petrovich worked in Eagle Dynamics before and participated in the very first Advanced Flight Model implemented for Su-25. What happened after he left ED, I have no clue. But both games FMs have the same roots. And having more complex system modelling doesnt have much in common with flight model dynamics and the "feel of flight". Its just what it is. More switches to flip around. And flipping them around with the mouse is like simulating real life pilot flipping them with the stick 

[Lusekofte]

I completely disagree. I own nearly all of the content (minus anything that has come out in the last 12 months) and have flown them all enough to arrive at a completely different conclusion.

 

Compared to BOS I would say I almost disagree, They are only different. When it comes to Helicopters the physics has no competition. It simply is unmatched compared to just about everything. a huey pilot (modern type) in US Army say it is as well if not better than their simulators except from the systems required for what they use it for.

I compare with BOS since you usually use it as reference.

 

However When it comes to WW2 modules where my taste of flight simulator put me slightly toward DCS , but the rest is a mess. absolutely no logistic around the game side of it. Since groundhandeling is improved drastically in BOS I might agree this part feels and probably is better in BOS. Flight itself lack a bit environment but is not bad in DCS. I simply is not able to say DCS is worser than any other brand . I tried out the trial in X plane 11. I must say it surprised me positively in this regard, but my PC is to old running it for a longer period. I think it can be a contender if my little taste is correct

Edited November 21, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Compared to BOS I would say I almost disagree, They are only different. When it comes to Helicopters the physics has no competition. It simply is unmatched compared to just about everything. a huey pilot (modern type) in US Army say it is as well if not better than their simulators except from the systems required for what they use it for.

I compare with BOS since you usually use it as reference.

 

However When it comes to WW2 modules where my taste of flight simulator put me slightly toward DCS , but the rest is a mess. absolutely no logistic around the game side of it. Since groundhandeling is improved drastically in BOS I might agree this part feels and probably is better in BOS. Flight itself lack a bit environment but is not bad in DCS. I simply is not able to say DCS is worser than any other brand . I tried out the trial in X plane 11. I must say it surprised me positively in this regard, but my PC is to old running it for a longer period. I think it can be a contender if my little taste is correct

 

We've gone over this a dozen times and we're not going to agree. 

 

I don't know if we're playing different simulators or what but your experience is not representative of mine and my experience is obviously not representative of yours.

[Lusekofte]

I do not disagree with what you say per see, I am simply not capable to explain in english what I mean. I simply cannot relate to the devastated critique you are giving in all regards conserning DCS, neither the conclusion . Since we are talking about so many aspects of a sim. 

Read all this, and at the same time I do not disagree with what you say.

Simply a too big language barrier to me. In my opinion we do not disagree, more some difference in conclusion in a way. But I give up. 

 

One question tho, have you tried the choppers in DCS? Because that is what I do, I am in no way a expert in WW2 planes of DCS. I prefer BOS series for different reasons than FM and game engine

[Gambit21]

Initially I thought DCS WW2 was gone for good. Now that I think about it DCS still has the advantage of having unrivaled flight models. They will also have an actual WW2 map + a new damage model, possibly more complex than IL2's. They only advantages IL2 hold are over is visual gore(immersion) + more planes to fly. According to the Q&A, Bodenplatte is expected to launch in late 2019. This basically gives 2 years to add the P-47 and visual gore. 

 

What is with some of you people and "gore"?

[Uufflakke]

What is with some of you people and "gore"?

 

They love ketchup?

 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I do not disagree with what you say per see, I am simply not capable to explain in english what I mean. I simply cannot relate to the devastated critique you are giving in all regards conserning DCS, neither the conclusion . Since we are talking about so many aspects of a sim. 

Read all this, and at the same time I do not disagree with what you say.

Simply a too big language barrier to me. In my opinion we do not disagree, more some difference in conclusion in a way. But I give up. 

 

One question tho, have you tried the choppers in DCS? Because that is what I do, I am in no way a expert in WW2 planes of DCS. I prefer BOS series for different reasons than FM and game engine

No, I haven’t flown any of the choppers and my experience has only been fixed wing aircraft from the WWII modules up through the A-10.

 

I do think the language barrier between us is part of it but I will say that your English is pretty good.

[Lusekofte]

Thing is I constantly read my own answers to you, like you do after you answered my post, if you get what I mean. I can see the reason for your slight annoyed resignation. 

Believe me it is just as frustrating for me. Anyway I am truly sorry for the hassle 

[LukeFF]

They will also have an actual WW2 map + a new damage model, possibly more complex than IL2's.

 

That map is also highly anachronistic. Dora-9s and K-4s over Normandy, anyone?    

Edited November 21, 2017 by LukeFF

[Gambit21]

...Hueys over Normandy...I see that one talked about a lot.

[Lusekofte]

I am quite conform with the anachronistic tendencies of DCS , it was far worse doing it over Caucasus . The map is big enough to imagine it is over the low-countries . My problem with DCS ww2 is the combat sim part. You cannot do anything other than dogfight or shoot down dumb AI B 17. The plane itself is quite a joy

[Gambit21]

DCS should have done Korea, and forgotten all about WW2. The MiG 15 is just about my favourite module, but the whole DCS set up is just one big muddle.

 

What's funny (and frankly a little pathetic) is that with DCS currently having the F-86 and MiG-15 already completed as we speak...if Jason wanted to beat DCS to a completed Korea release, he has time to get Bodenplatte done and at least 2 PTO releases out the door

and he could still do it with time to spare. I'm talking map, appropriate AI aircraft, ground units, and a handful of appropriate and player aircraft to boot.

Sitting here thinking about it...there's actually an outside chance of that exact scenario coming to pass.

[Jade_Monkey]

Does anyone know that's the deal with the blue fluorescent mark on the sides of the F15 and F18?

Is it a restriction so it doesn't look too real? kind of like the red tips on the toy guns?

 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Looks like it's there.

 

[johncage]

ED could have built a real P47 from scratch in the time its taking them thus far to simulate one. There will be very little sales for their module once its released, in beta, because the BoBP one will have been out for at least a year. DCS have been blown out of the water. They, ED, will find it very hard to justify continuing a WW2 theme in the wake of yesterdays announcement. Those looking for an expanding DCS WW2 universe are going to be even more frustrated. Its over! The ED moderators know this. They're pushing the "theres room for both" line. We all remember one moderators melt down on these very forums. He's changed his tune in desperation. DCS WW2 has just got owned.

 

dcs is suffering from overreach. at first they did the p51 and it's like cool, an airshow plane, then they did a bunch of other older generation planes, and because that was too much work, they outsourced it to 3rd party developers. and now they have to make an entire map to use those planes in. it's just an endless resource and time sink they created for themselves.

 

alternatively they could have put all effort and time into upgrading the existing assets and the engine itself to compete in a modern market and maybe dcs 2.5 might have been released last year. instead what they did was create a wide variety of random out of context assets and try and force fit them into the existeing system. when that didn't work, then they decided to upgrade the engine.

[MiloMorai]

Does anyone know that's the deal with the blue fluorescent mark on the sides of the F15 and F18?

Is it a restriction so it doesn't look too real? kind of like the red tips on the toy guns?

 

 

Formation 'lights' tho not actually lights iirc.

 

Viggen, on the intake and behind the canard.

[DSR_A-24]

I completely disagree. I own nearly all of the content (minus anything that has come out in the last 12 months) and have flown them all enough to arrive at a completely different conclusion.

 

DCS' flight models are exaggerated caricatures and the whole physics engine seems to lack the fluid dynamics modeling that makes the IL-2 FM so great.

 

The only... and I mean the only thing DCS does better is systems modeling assuming that is somebody's cup of tea.

 

The lack of flight model criticism in the DCS forums speaks for its self. Never mind the endless threads claiming incorrect plane performance in these forums. All the countless flight model changes to the Fw-190 and Bf-109s.

[Gambit21]

Try again

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

The lack of flight model criticism in the DCS forums speaks for its self. Never mind the endless threads claiming incorrect plane performance in these forums. All the countless flight model changes to the Fw-190 and Bf-109s.

That's not true mate. Or at least not in regard to WW2 modules. Whether it is 109, 190, P-51 or Spitfire section, a flight model related topics can be easily found. 190 was disputed numerous times about its perceived poor turn rate, energy state and so on. 109 K-4 was under criticism for speed, stiffening at high speeds and rudder requirements. P-51 is under constant pressure from the fans of previous two for its turn rate, supposed ability to turn almost entirely on a rudder. There were also numerous discussions about its speed and need to increase the boost ratings to 72 - 75" MAP. Spitfire section also contains flight model discussions - about ailerons operation, absence of rudder forces, high operating temperatures of oil/coolant which make it very prone to accidental destruction of an engine during flight below 220 mph indicated. 

109 and 190 saw numerous flight model updates in DCS just as well, which simply is a natural upgrade process for every virtual environment. First version of 109 could do really weird things, there was on youtube a video of a guy making circles around small airfield with nose lifted and full right rudder - aircraft was basically flying sideways. But it's been fixed. Just as flight models here are fixed and improved.