DCS

[BOO]

I see there is a bit of a teacup sized storm about the quality of the visual aspects of the Kiowa. I have to say that whilst I can see it in the videos posted as proof I also have never, ever zoomed into anything that closely. Nor do I do cinematics or external views. So I cant see that bothering me too much. If it has that certain something like the Hip, I'll forgive it almost anything. My only gripe is that I cant play with it yet. 

 

Each to their own though as with everything in a sim.

 

[Lusekofte]

13 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

In the past, any flight sim I had I would buy everything a developer put out, but those days have gone... with DCS I buy WWII stuff, but in the more modern stuff I only buy the modules that I consider iconic...  

well I buy all choppers. I believed that by managing AH 64 pilot seat the Kiowa would be a breeze 

Not!

not difficult but a bit over the top fiddly punching in modes. Albeit less destructive some of the guided missile are just as good as KA 50 on softer targets. Unguided missile and gun is always fun. 
I do however see the lack of interest on it as not surprising. You got to be like me , adopting all the ugly gremlins. I think I will enjoy this. But my head is dozing off trying to learn the system

[Gambit21]

26 minutes ago, BOO said:

I see there is a bit of a teacup sized storm about the quality of the visual aspects of the Kiowa. I have to say that whilst I can see it in the videos posted as proof I also have never, ever zoomed into anything that closely. Nor do I do cinematics or external views. So I cant see that bothering me too much. If it has that certain something like the Hip, I'll forgive it almost anything. My only gripe is that I cant play with it yet. 

 

Each to their own though as with everything in a sim.

 

I called this out after the first video - it was overtly obvious to me, probably because I’m a 3D and texture guy. To us (and I’ve spoken with others like myself) it jumps out at you and no need to zoom in.  What I think happened was that this portion of the development work was done long ago when it was closer to or equal to the standard of the time - 2017 standard or so.

 

The F-14 came along and made everything else look older to various extents, and now the F-4 (for certain modules, not all) even more so. Regarding the Kiowa, I heard it was to keep VRAM/texture burden low but I’m not buying that. I think it just overshot it’s quality/standard window…It’s not up to even a 2019 standard bottom line, let alone 2024.

 

To me even the difference between the Viper and Hornet is obvious - with the Viper showing obvious improvement.
 

Look at the Chinook pit in the video - outstanding. 😎

 

 

Edited June 6, 2024 by Gambit21

[Lusekofte]

It is not that bad as the angry crowd say. When I look at the cockpit I see the same as this. And me flying in VR  I care less of the poly counters rage

my view is exactly this. With a good system. I find it absolute spot on. What the angry crowd is on about is beyond my comprehension. It is like they will avenge Razbam VS ED or something. Looking and searching for things that is wrong. 
Absolutely nothing about this module was a surprise, it need no improvement in the looks if it up to me. And it is far to soon to say if I like some changes in fm or system

[BOO]

1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

I called this out after the first video - it was overtly obvious to me, probably because I’m a 3D and texture guy. To us (and I’ve spoken with others like myself) it jumps out at you and no need to zoom in.  What I think happened was that this work was done long ago when it was closer to or equal to the standard of the time - 2017 standard or so.

 

The F-14 came along and made everything else look bad, and now the F-4 even more so. I heard it was to keep VRAM/texture burden low but I’m not buying that. It’s not up to even a 2019 standard bottom line, let alone 2024.

 

I get it would bother some and understandably so if that's their bag and they are also paying $70.  It just doesnt really bother me. And Im just lucky then becuase it doesnt jump out as much to me as you might think.  In the same way Im happy in the Hip or Harrier despite their age.. A module can be more or less than the sum of its parts. For me, its the overall thing.  If that then induces in me a sense of immersion where Im more in the moment that I dont notice something glaring to others, its a win.  I think I spend more time looking out of the window anyhow so ultimately, a module can be as good as it gets but the map will still break my immersion more than likley. 

[Lusekofte]

14 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Look at the Chinook pit in the video - outstanding

I will buy that too. But as the crowd say. It is probably too easy to fly to be real. 
Buying a stable platform , give you stable not agile behaviour. 

[Gambit21]

Just now, BOO said:

 

I get it would bother some and understandably so if that's their bag and they are also paying $70.  It just doesnt really bother me. And Im just lucky then becuase it doesnt jump out as much to me as you might think.  In the same way Im happy in the Hip or Harrier despite their age.. A module can be more or less than the sum of its parts. For me, its the overall thing.  If that then induces in me a sense of immersion where Im more in the moment that I dont notice something glaring to others, its a win.  I think I spend more time looking out of the window anyhow so ultimately, a module can be as good as it gets but the map will still break my immersion more than likley. 

I hear ya, if I was interested in the Kiowa I’m sure I could get past it - similar to the Huey which really shows it’s age and needs some love - that wouldn’t  prevent me from using it.

[Lusekofte]

1 minute ago, BOO said:

the same way Im happy in the Hip

I probably still have the hip as a favorite even when chinook come. Because it require mindfulness and attention to manoeuvre 

Just now, Gambit21 said:

I hear ya, if I was interested in the Kiowa I’m sure I could get past it - similar to the Huey which really shows it’s age and needs some love - that wouldn’t  prevent me from using it.

Huey is a gem. A real gem and a brake from hip. 

[Gambit21]

2 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

… a stable platform , give you stable not agile behaviour. 

If it flies like the real thing - expect both. Anyway with my normal HOTAS I need something a bit easier.

[Lusekofte]

10 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

If it flies like the real thing - expect both. Anyway with my normal HOTAS I need something a bit easier.

Yep. I can send you my backup stick. You fly every chopper like a breeze.  But you will need a bit of space. It is true. Chopper need a good stick to fully enjoy and pedals that is adequate. The rest is novelty. 

[Gambit21]

Twist stick is what I use, always have…no issues. It’s the other Axis’ that I could use finer control. FF however is what really would be the game changer.

[BOO]

2 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Twist stick is what I use, always have…no issues. It’s the other Axis’ that I could use finer control. FF however is what really would be the game changer.

 

Im sure plenty do but I cant imagine trying to control 3 axis on one stick in a Helo. I think it would be beyond me. Moving from a sidewinder to a Virpil with a 100mm extention transformed flying choppers for me. As Luse says, good stick, decent pedals and the rest is just for sh!!s and giggles. 

Edited June 6, 2024 by BOO

[Lusekofte]

Rudder pedals is a pain in the neck getting used to. But a game changer when you get used to it. 
I used it myself in order to save space at one time 

[Gambit21]

23 minutes ago, BOO said:

 

Im sure plenty do but I cant imagine trying to control 3 axis on one stick in a Helo. I think it would be beyond me. Moving from a sidewinder to a Viril with a 100mm extention transformed flying choppers for me. As Luse says, good stick, decent pedals and the rest is just for sh!!s and giggles. 

 

You don't think much about the twist I find, sort of like steering a car.

 

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, BOO said:

Im sure plenty do but I cant imagine trying to control 3 axis on one stick in a Helo. I think it would be beyond me. Moving from a sidewinder to a Viril with a 100mm extention transformed flying choppers for me. As Luse says, good stick, decent pedals and the rest is just for sh!!s and giggles. 

 

Rudder peddles are great for flying helicopters. I finally got my T-Rudders and it has transformed the experience entirely.

 

Apparently, when I was an infant, I was placed near a Ficus - and I'd start hitting with my feet to make it wiggle. I apparently got so excited my parents had to only let me do it for a minute at a time. I can feel those tendencies coming back... like a deep ocean current!

 

...also, so much less wrist fatigue!

[BOO]

58 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

Rudder pedals is a pain in the neck getting used to. But a game changer when you get used to it. 
I used it myself in order to save space at one time 

 

When i using them with choppers I tend to keep my heels on the floor for a little finer control and comfort.  I think, had I done this early on (I was playng Clod then not DCS

) with less spring I would have got used to them within a few hours. Even so, for warbird it doesnt take long and jets even less. First few times I used them it flet like I was cheating in dogfights.  

 

53 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

You don't think much about the twist I find, sort of like steering a car.

 

 

True though I never got on with a twist stick myself. I think from almost the get go of coming back into sims in 2014  I had rudder separate (intially on the finger rocker of a cheap thrustmaster hotas thing then Crosswinds). 

[Boogdud]

I'm absolutely loving the Kiowa, granted I've been a fan of it since longbow/2.. Flying it is pure joy to me, the flight model when flown in constraints is amazing in feel. Somehow they got the ground drag coefficient right on this one, landing and taking off feels like you are actually in control. Most, if not all, of the dcs helicopters have this "static cling" type reaction when you try to take off, the skids (which in dcs are just wheels, it can't model skids) kind of stick to the ground so when you apply torque you get this big YOINK which throws you so you have no choice but to overpower on takeoff and correct for it really quickly, nowhere near what you'd do irl. Same with landing, most of the time the wheel/skids grab the ground like velcro and force overtorque or just flat out roll you, but not with the Kiowa it's the best representation I've seen in DCS or any civ sim for that matter, as far as helicopters go.

 

But just flying it feels so intimate, because it's not a big heavy gunship or transport you can really fly all out. I'm typically flying 10-25 feet at 85-90kts in-between trees and terrain and it's so much fun to throw around. Using apkws and hellfires as a single player is so much better than the gazelle, and more engaging than the apache (which doesn't have apkws). When I'm flying the apache (which I have a ton of time in), it just feels like playing a game, press button blow up things without much work, especially with the FCR. But with the kiowa since you're little, and slow and not armed very well it feels like a bit of a challenge but feels more satisfying. It's definitely 80s tech. Somehow it just feels more like a 'helicopter' to me than the other modules.

[sevenless]

I really hope they can get this sorted for the customers.

 

 

[BOO]

45 minutes ago, sevenless said:

I really hope they can get this sorted for the customers.

 

I respect that guy but that video didnt need to made. Anyone with any interest knows (or rather doesnt know) where that mess is up to. Content creators aint gonna change a thing no matter what their ego tells em. Still, a good click bait title is always good for the figures so we aint all doing badly out of it. 

[sevenless]

21 minutes ago, BOO said:

I respect that guy but that video didnt need to made. Anyone with any interest knows (or rather doesnt know) where that mess is up to. Content creators aint gonna change a thing no matter what their ego tells em. Still, a good click bait title is always good for the figures so we aint all doing badly out of it. 

 

True that. Nevertheless the situation ist still unsolved and information never hurts to help making up your own mind.

[Avimimus]

We don't know details of the situation, no one has seen the contracts.

 

I would like to, as a moderator, ask everyone to kindly refrain from discussing the situation here. Discussions are allowed on the official Eagle Dynamics  / DCS forums and elsewhere - we don't have to reproduce the speculation and anxiety here.

 

So, lets all calmly wait for news and go back to discussing whether having to make the best of two hellfires is more fun than having sixteen.

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, Boogdud said:

I'm absolutely loving the Kiowa, granted I've been a fan of it since longbow/2.. Flying it is pure joy to me, the flight model when flown in constraints is amazing in feel. Somehow they got the ground drag coefficient right on this one, landing and taking off feels like you are actually in control. Most, if not all, of the dcs helicopters have this "static cling" type reaction when you try to take off, the skids (which in dcs are just wheels, it can't model skids) kind of stick to the ground so when you apply torque you get this big YOINK which throws you so you have no choice but to overpower on takeoff and correct for it really quickly, nowhere near what you'd do irl. Same with landing, most of the time the wheel/skids grab the ground like velcro and force overtorque or just flat out roll you, but not with the Kiowa it's the best representation I've seen in DCS or any civ sim for that matter, as far as helicopters go.

 

But just flying it feels so intimate, because it's not a big heavy gunship or transport you can really fly all out. I'm typically flying 10-25 feet at 85-90kts in-between trees and terrain and it's so much fun to throw around. Using apkws and hellfires as a single player is so much better than the gazelle, and more engaging than the apache (which doesn't have apkws). When I'm flying the apache (which I have a ton of time in), it just feels like playing a game, press button blow up things without much work, especially with the FCR. But with the kiowa since you're little, and slow and not armed very well it feels like a bit of a challenge but feels more satisfying. It's definitely 80s tech. Somehow it just feels more like a 'helicopter' to me than the other modules.

 

All good to hear....the more choppers the better...especially well executed ones which it seems they've all been so far.

Bring on the Chinook!!!!!

[Avimimus]

33 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

All good to hear....the more choppers the better...especially well executed ones which it seems they've all been so far.

Bring on the Chinook!!!!!

 

The Kiowa is making me want an Mi-2URP even more... the more angry tadpoles the better I say! 😄

[BOO]

1 minute ago, Avimimus said:

 

The Kiowa is making me want an Mi-2URP even more... the more angry tadpoles the better I say! 😄

Budgie the helicopter! 

[Gambit21]

Boat Ops

[Lusekofte]

[Lusekofte]

I really really love the Kiowa. It is growing on me for every minute I fly it. 
Make it light , and arm it with gun and rockets. Switch of the automatic help ( scat) and put it on some of the Huey missions. It does the same job with less bullets. And fly like a dream. 
Also I follow Casmo videos. He explain real Kiowa’s tactics and why. It is so easy just let the copilot put it in hoover and blast things up. But he learn you not to do that because of fuel consumption and threats. For the first time in two years I consider upgrading my pc , I find it worth while. And I probably buy halfghanistan just because of this chopper. I bet there will be campaign for it there

Edited June 9, 2024 by Lusekofte

[Gambit21]

12 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

I really really love the Kiowa. It is growing on me for every minute I fly it. 
Make it light , and arm it with gun and rockets. Switch of the automatic help ( scat) and put it on some of the Huey missions. It does the same job with less bullets. And fly like a dream. 
Also I follow Casmo videos. He explain real Kiowa’s tactics and why. It is so easy just let the copilot put it in hoover and blast things up. But he learn you not to do that because of fuel consumption and threats. For the first time in two years I consider upgrading my pc , I find it worth while. And I probably buy halfghanistan just because of this chopper. I bet there will be campaign for it there

Afghanistan + Helos is going to be the DCS sweet spot IMHO.

 

My mind is open for snowy Kola too…we shall see. Then there’s Iraq, but I don’t find that terrain as appealing. For me it will be all about northern Afghanistan…which by the way is out of bounds for some helos due to elevation.

[Lusekofte]

36 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

My mind is open for snowy Kola too…we shall see.

I made simple missions for it. Gonna dl som farp templates for it and fly.

Kola is nice like msfs nice but they have not bothered at all populating it. I would wasit a year if I where you

I live in the area that is my reason for buying

Gosh I renewed my enthusiasm with the Kiowa 

Edited June 9, 2024 by Lusekofte

[Avimimus]

12 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

 

Kola is nice like msfs nice but they have not bothered at all populating it. I would wasit a year if I where you

I live in the area that is my reason for buying

 

 

What do you think of the trees? It has been the tree models (and the high price), which has kept me away from Kola so far. The trees don't give me a very northern feeling.

[sevenless]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

What do you think of the trees? It has been the tree models (and the high price), which has kept me away from Kola so far. The trees don't give me a very northern feeling.

 

Lack of coniferous forests is a show-stopper for me.

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, sevenless said:

Lack of coniferous forests is a show-stopper for me.

 

Should have a few deciduous trees, but mainly be coniferous, and then transition to very short trees (if it is anything like similar latitudes in Canada). There should also be pockets of trees on the rocky ground in boglands (albeit those trees should disappear near the arctic coast).

 

It definitely needs its own tree models (and two heights at a minimum to capture the transition).

[sevenless]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Should have a few deciduous trees, but mainly be coniferous, and then transition to very short trees (if it is anything like similar latitudes in Canada). There should also be pockets of trees on the rocky ground in boglands (albeit those trees should disappear near the arctic coast).

 

It definitely needs its own tree models (and two heights at a minimum to capture the transition).

 

Yep. Maybe they manage that in a year or something. Until then, my wallet is closed.

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Lack of coniferous forests is a show-stopper for me.

It is not a stopper for me. I hunt in the mountains around Tromsoe and Narvik. As long as I can see the topographical aspects of these mountains I can go there winter and summer. You can predict avalanches based on wind direction and you can see the time hiking there. While I do these recce missions I can set up a mission. In msfs I usually took a small slow plane and did the same. Both of these got rubbish trees. 
and because of kola map I could uninstall msfs. Besides I got hand on some farp templates making the missions good. 

Edited June 10, 2024 by Lusekofte

[Trooper117]

Flaming Cliffs 2024 is dropping in the next DCS update... also new is the air boss on the super carrier, plus news on the new DCS Launcher. 

 

Edited June 14, 2024 by Trooper117

[DD_fruitbat]

Really loving the Kiowa, unfortunately due to work at the moment not had a lot of time to fly anything, but after only really a couple of sessions got a pretty good understanding of the systems, its pretty easy really. The AI pilot integration is the best yet in any helicopter, and very intunative imo.

 

Love being sneaky and using APKWS and Hellfires!

 

 

[Trooper117]

Good video.Very convincing... nice one. 

[Gambit21]

15 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Really loving the Kiowa, unfortunately due to work at the moment not had a lot of time to fly anything, but after only really a couple of sessions got a pretty good understanding of the systems, its pretty easy really. The AI pilot integration is the best yet in any helicopter, and very intunative imo.

 

Love being sneaky and using APKWS and Hellfires!

 

 

Great helo and nice job on the video.

 

Testing some WHOPPA WHOPPA. 😎

[Gingerwelsh]

F4E over the Andes.

 

 

 

 

..

[Dagwoodyt]

PUA:Win32/Packunwan

 

Recently got warning from WD when starting DCS. Seems like ED says "Be happy, don't worry!" and cannot or will not resolve the issue. Bummer!