BON list planes-why V1?

[ITAF_Rani]

As Jason confirmed in the last post, V1 will be in the list of the planes scheduled for BON.

 

Sorry I don' understand...

Sure will be cool to intercept a V1 going to England...but why not instead insert in the list another plane or a variant of one we already have...?

V1 should not be considered as an object or samething else?

Edited January 23, 2020 by ITAF_Rani

[Hawk-2a]

Because it will need a flight model too, i guess

[6FG_Big_Al]

Well, since it is actually somewhat more complex than a normal object and has its own (albeit simple) flight model, this "special position" doesn't really surprise me. In itself it is nice to know that the V1 also finds its way into the sim as another facet. But vice versa, the effort for the V1 on the other side should be much less than for a complete aircraft. And not to forget that we already get 2 extra AI aircraft with Normandy.

 

[Luftschiff]

As mentioned above - It's not taking up the space of a fully modelled plane, it's a free extra. 

[AndyJWest]

Why V1? Because they can. Because they have the resources to do so. And because it was of significance in the post D-Day air war.  It is always possible to second-guess the developers and ask 'why this rather than that', but ultimately the choice is down to them. Aside from interceptions, the V1 launch infrastructure was also a target, and should make for some good missions. Variety is good.  

[kendo]

For BoN there will be 10 flyables, 2 AI aircraft and the V1. It's not like we're being short-changed compared to other titles.

 

Why V1 instead of another flyable? Much easier to make for starters - no cockpit, easy structure, easy FM I would expect. And to leave it out from this scenario could be viewed as quite a big omission, not quite as big as Stalingrad without the Ju52, but i'm sure eventually people would be asking for it.

Edited January 23, 2020 by kendo

[Missionbug]

For the time period this addition is necessary as it was a large part of the whole conflict, keeping the V-1 away from our cities was as much a huge operation for the R.A.F and others as keeping the Luftwaffe at bay, a more insidious strike element could not have been devised apart from the later V-2, easy to build, deadly in its explosive content with the psychological and physical damage it could inflict onto the population with no need for pilots, a second fire and forget Air Force.

 

Birth of the modern era no less, a portent of the world to come, the cruise missile of its day, it had to be included.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

If I'm not wrong, V-1 could be also lunched by He-111, right?

 

Will be so exciting to see this opinion disabled on Wings of Liberty  ?

Edited January 23, 2020 by ITAF_Airone1989

[Jade_Monkey]

Why not?

 

The 3D model of a V1 is much much simpler, let alone it doesn't require multiple skins or an interior. The FM should also be relatively simple.

 

You are comparing two very different types of work that are not equivalent in terms of resources.

[352ndOscar]

Probably a good time to do some reading and research on V1 and V2 operations during WW2 and “Operation Crossbow”....

[Lord_Strange]

Hey look, if there's anyone not excited to try and knock a V-1 over with their wing-tip then there's something wrong with them.

[Stoopy]

1 hour ago, Lord_Strange said:

Hey look, if there's anyone not excited to try and knock a V-1 over with their wing-tip then there's something wrong with them.

 

As much as I enjoy extremely close formation flying and especially formation aerobatics, I'd be nervous. With some of the DM we have now, that V1 might act like a lump of flying granite that will destroy any wings that even graze it. 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by =[TIA]=Stoopy

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

I think that the V-1 will open lots of possibilities for mission builders and very fun gameplay.

[Cpt_Cool]

31 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

As much as I enjoy extremely close formation flying, I'd be nervous. With some of the DM we have now, that V1 might act like a lump flying granite that will destroy any wings that even graze it. 

 

 

Not just being a fanboy, but I actually think this sum has the best dm for flipping bugs. The elastic/plastic deformation is really good in low speed collisions (being a different category than weapon inflicted damage which will be debatable for eternity).

[Chief_Mouser]

I watched a documentary a few months back about the squadrons intercepting the V-1s coming over England, and one of the pilots said that he only knew of two occasions where they were tipped over by the attacking plane. Obviously, one person's recollection doesn't equate to the whole truth, but I suspect that the 'flip 'em over and send them back' thing has a large element of propaganda attached to it. My mum, a teenager during the war, still believes it; she didn't hear that story about the wingtip interceptions lately, but at the time as she watched them coming over and jumped into ditches or down into cellars etc to avoid them when their engines cut out.

Btw, that's why we are getting the V-1 in the game... to terrify nonagenarians. She says that they were about the only thing that scared her during the whole of WW2.

[Stoopy]

23 minutes ago, Cpt_Cool said:

 

Not just being a fanboy, but I actually think this sum has the best dm for flipping bugs. The elastic/plastic deformation is really good in low speed collisions (being a different category than weapon inflicted damage which will be debatable for eternity).

 

Good point.  Plus hopefully we'll get a extra-huge fireball effect when we shoot them up and set off the explosives....

 

[40plus]

7 minutes ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

. . . .  . Plus hopefully we'll get a extra-huge fireball effect when we shoot them up and set off the explosives....

 

 

Here's hoping for a suitably dramatic boom.

I'd also love for the existing bomb loads to be susceptible to cannon fire. It would be fun to ignite one of the under-slung 1800kg bombs dangling from a stuka!

[HerrBree]

10 minutes ago, pfrances said:

 

Here's hoping for a suitably dramatic boom.

I'd also love for the existing bomb loads to be susceptible to cannon fire. It would be fun to ignite one of the under-slung 1800kg bombs dangling from a stuka!

Ive actually read that the explosives in ww2 bombloads were quite stable, and need a fuse to set them off and that the pressure caused by cannon and bullet impacts, even if they penetrated the already very thick bomb casings wouldnt be enough to set them off.

[Avimimus]

1 minute ago, HerrBree said:

Ive actually read that the explosives in ww2 bombloads were quite stable, and need a fuse to set them off and that the pressure caused by cannon and bullet impacts, even if they penetrated the already very thick bomb casings wouldnt be enough to set them off.

 

What would be nice is occasional failures of time-delayed fuses... you know... so there is more of a reason to not overly rely on time-delayed bombs (which some players do). It'd be nice to have the occasional premature detonation and the occasional dud.

 

Also... it'd make sense for time delayed bombs to have a lower blast radius (sometimes significantly lower) due to burying in the ground prior to detonating. Il-2 4.11 modelled this (but I'm not sure if it is modelled in BoX): 

 

It'd also give us a reason to have the 'long nose' SD70 fuses - especially on maps which are 'muddy'.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

13 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Also... it'd make sense for time delayed bombs to have a lower blast radius (sometimes significantly lower) due to burying in the ground prior to detonating. Il-2 4.11 modelled this (but I'm not sure if it is modelled in BoX): 

 

 

I feel like this is already modelled. When I drop a thicc boi through the roof of an empty hanger, the blast seems far smaller than if I drop one into a field next to some vehicles. Also, the blasts seem to be larger in my eyes if set to contact fuse instead of time delay. I would assume this to be because the time delay let's the bomb be buried before detonation?

[Enceladus828]

I can’t wait to fly the Mosquito and intercept the V-1s. Should be a blast. Literally.

[Avimimus]

7 hours ago, kendo said:

Why V1 instead of another flyable? Much easier to make for starters - no cockpit, easy structure, easy FM I would expect. And to leave it out from this scenario could be viewed as quite a big omission, not quite as big as Stalingrad without the Ju52, but i'm sure eventually people would be asking for it.

 

Oh! In response to the original post... I've figured out the long term plan  The V1 is a way to get modelling of Argus pulse-jets done so that we can eventually get a flyable DFS 230 experimental prototype: https://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/dfs-230-argus-pulse-jets.html

 

It all makes sense! Definitely nothing to do with the squadrons which were primarily aimed at defending against V1s or Operation Crossbow ?

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, III/JG52_Al-Azraq said:

I think that the V-1 will open lots of possibilities for mission builders and very fun gameplay.

 

Maybe someone will also take care of this:

 

Antwerp, "City of Sudden Death"

 

Impacts in greater Antwerp	V-1	V-2
October 1944	27	58
November 1944	64	126
December 1944	110	130
January 1945	117	155
February 1945	224	59
March 1945	86	42
-	-	-
Totals	628	570

 

http://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/antwerp.html

 

http://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/antwerpmap.html

Edited January 23, 2020 by sevenless

[Avimimus]

13 minutes ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

I feel like this is already modelled. When I drop a thicc boi through the roof of an empty hanger, the blast seems far smaller than if I drop one into a field next to some vehicles. Also, the blasts seem to be larger in my eyes if set to contact fuse instead of time delay. I would assume this to be because the time delay let's the bomb be buried before detonation?

 

That could well be the case... I might be too focused on whether I hit my target or not - rather than noticing the effects of the hit. I wonder if it has an impact on ships? I should maybe try dropping a few SC70s with different fuse settings.

 

It'd be good advertising for BoX if they made a list of all of the things that are modelled (kindof like the module pages done by DCS)...

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, No.322_Red_Cat said:

plane. Obviously, one person's recollection doesn't equate to the whole truth, but I suspect that the 'flip 'em over and send them back' thing has a large element of propaganda attached to it.

Might well be, in one docu however my understanding was that flipping it was common, and shooting it was a risky business. 
The blast was able to damage or take the plane with it. 

[Yogiflight]

19 minutes ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

Might well be, in one docu however my understanding was that flipping it was common, and shooting it was a risky business. 
The blast was able to damage or take the plane with it. 

Yep, that's what british pilots tell, who were intercepting V-1s.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I'm kind of viewing BoBp and BoN as 1/2 each of a gigantic overall BoX module, considering how many of the overall assets will be fully usable historically on either map.

[Jason_Williams]

It flies and it needs an FM and DM so I added it to the list. It will be a fun addition.

 

Jason

[RedKestrel]

5 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

It flies and it needs an FM and DM so I added it to the list. It will be a fun addition.

 

Jason

I'm looking forward to it! It adds a lot of potential especially in MP and SP.

An MP mission where Tempests and Mk XIV Spits have to defend targets in the rear from incoming VI bombs and 262s, while other attackers try and destroy the launch sites with the Axis defending. It would be a great change up to a standard MP mission.

[40plus]

18 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 It will be a fun addition.

 

 

Damned straight it will!

 

Eagerly looking forward to hunting V1s

[Heliopause]

Why? Well they started using them during that period.

 

And tipping them over: didn't some pilots do that after running out of ammo?

[MikhaVT]

2 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

It flies and it needs an FM and DM so I added it to the list. It will be a fun addition.

 

Jason

 

The actual reason is the devs want to provide us with a painful targets in response to all our negative threads! ?

[Lusekofte]

2 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

It flies and it needs an FM and DM so I added it to the list. It will be a fun addition.

 

Jason

It is a neat detail and give us another challenge. 
Historically important flying object given highest priority by H himself, making it almost obligated, And much appreciated. The fact that so many after all got intercepted or shot down by flak saved a lot of people. 

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

If I'm not wrong, V-1 could be also lunched by He-111, right?

 

Yes, they were called H-22s. Eventually, Mosquitoes started hunting these down, as the large ball of flame emitted by the V1 as it was launched gave away the plane's position. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

I am 100% very excited to do some "anti-diver" patrols along the coast in Spitfire XIV's and Tempests.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

10 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

That could well be the case... I might be too focused on whether I hit my target or not - rather than noticing the effects of the hit. I wonder if it has an impact on ships? I should maybe try dropping a few SC70s with different fuse settings.

 

It'd be good advertising for BoX if they made a list of all of the things that are modelled (kindof like the module pages done by DCS)...

 

Ive noticed different results from hitting ships in different places with the same bomb. I always skip bomb as you are almost guaranteed to hit and cause major damage. I set a 2 second fuse and drop at very high speed flying perfectly level from about 100m. Bomb skips once and smacks into the side of the ship, penetrates, and detonates inside. Usually I can sink a destroyer with one hit if I skip a 250kg or bigger right into the back where the propulsion is, or right into the spot directly under the stacks. When I got those two areas the explosions are tremendous and very bright. Anywhere else and the explosion is much less profound and it will need another bomb to sink. 

[Juri_JS]

I want the Reichenberg-Gerät.

 

When flying it my poor landing skills won't matter.

[BornToBattle]

On 1/23/2020 at 3:04 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, they were called H-22s. Eventually, Mosquitoes started hunting these down, as the large ball of flame emitted by the V1 as it was launched gave away the plane's position. 

 

 

And interestingly enough...

 

“There were plans, not put into practice, to use the Arado Ar 234 jet bomber to launch V-1s either by towing them aloft or by launching them from a "piggy back" position (in the manner of the Mistel, but in reverse) atop the aircraft. In the latter configuration, a pilot-controlled, hydraulically operated dorsal trapeze mechanism would elevate the missile on the trapeze's launch cradle about 8 feet (2.4 m) clear of the 234's upper fuselage. This was necessary to avoid damaging the mother craft's fuselage and tail surfaces when the pulsejet ignited, as well as to ensure a "clean" airflow for the Argus motor's intake”

 

More from article...

 

“Most operational V-1s were launched from static sites on land, but from July 1944 to January 1945, the Luftwaffe launched approximately 1,176 from modified He 111 H-22s of the 3rd Bomber Wing, the so-called "Blitz Wing" flying over the North Sea. Apart from the obvious motive of permitting the bombardment campaign to continue after static ground sites on the French coast were lost, air launching gave the Luftwaffe the opportunity to outflank the increasingly effective ground and air defences put up by the British against the missile. To minimise the associated risks (primarily radar detection), the aircrews developed a tactic called "lo-hi-lo": the He 111s would, upon leaving their airbases and crossing the coast, descend to an exceptionally low altitude. When the launch point was neared, the bombers would swiftly ascend, fire their V-1s, and then rapidly descend again to the previous "wave-top" level for the return flight. Research after the war estimated a 40% failure rate of air-launched V-1s, and the He 111s used in this role were vulnerable to night-fighter attack, as the launch lit up the area around the aircraft for several seconds. The combat potential of air-launched V-1s dwindled during 1944 at about the same rate as that of the ground-launched missiles, as the British gradually took the measure of the weapon and developed increasingly effective defense tactics.“

Edited January 26, 2020 by BornToBattle

[Yogiflight]

Maybe a flyable H22 gets a mod for the V-1

[BornToBattle]

15 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Maybe a flyable H22 gets a mod for the V-1

Funny, but after reading this I was wondering also.

 

Also found this regarding the Tempest and the V-1...

 

“When V-1 attacks began in mid-June 1944, the only aircraft with the low-altitude speed to be effective against it was the Hawker Tempest. Fewer than 30 Tempests were available. They were assigned to No. 150 Wing RAF. Early attempts to intercept and destroy V-1s often failed, but improved techniques soon emerged. These included using the airflow over an interceptor's wing to raise one wing of the V-1, by sliding the wingtip to within 6 in (15 cm) of the lower surface of the V-1's wing. If properly executed, this manoeuvre would tip the V-1's wing up, over-riding the gyro and sending the V-1 into an out-of-control dive. At least sixteen V-1s were destroyed this way (the first by a P-51 piloted by Major R. E. Turner of 356th Fighter Squadron on 18 June).”

 

”...to within 6 inches...”  - which in the sim would make for some crazy-ass micro control inputs to say the least, or risk (as stated before) damage to your own aircraft in the process. I think Jason’s statement of “It would be a fun addition” may even be an understatement given the opportunities for the defensive roles one may ponder to partake in.

 

I can only imagine what this would be like in VR. ?

 

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by BornToBattle