I Like the new Panther V

[DFLion]

I had a test drive of the new Panther V tank - wow! I got it up to 60 km/h (downhill) and 51 to 55 km/h along flat roads. ( see pic). One of the best researched publications is the 'Panther vs Sherman' Battle of the Bulge 1944 by Steven J. Zaloga - this is a must read for this Campaign.

[Koenigstiger]

Hello,

 

it is true - the Panther tank was implemented very well

- the suspension reacts accordingly when turning corners
- the commander can dive so that he only looks over the cupola edge

It remains to be wished that the commander finally gets binoculars and that all German commanders can dive down and do not look up to the waist from the cupola

. However, the Panther commanders should make sure that they have sufficient flank protection - for example through P IV - that was the great weakness during the first missions during the Kursk operation - and also later - while the cannon "cleared everything".

 

Best regards

 

Guenther

[JG27_Steini]

Everyone mentions the weak armour of this medium tank. It has the same side armour as the T34 and better then Pz IV. Was it really that bad?

[THERION]

5 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

Everyone mentions the weak armour of this medium tank. It has the same side armour as the T34 and better then Pz IV. Was it really that bad?

 

Well, the upper part of the side hull isn't actually the problem, but if you get hit just between the tracks and the upper hull, then you will definitely

have a huge problem, because the thickness of vertical steel plates aren't that strong. Therefore, don't forget your side skirts.

[kendo]

49 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

Everyone mentions the weak armour of this medium tank. It has the same side armour as the T34 and better then Pz IV. Was it really that bad?

 

Compared to the thick and well-sloped front armour, which was practically impenetrable (in 1943 at least). The Panther could be defeated from the side by contemporary opponents.   

[PatrickAWlson]

5 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

Everyone mentions the weak armour of this medium tank. It has the same side armour as the T34 and better then Pz IV. Was it really that bad?

 

It's relative.  The Tiger had very strong side armor that was difficult to penetrate at medium range with a US 75mm or a Russian 76mm.  The Panther could easily be defeated by a Sherman or T34 76mm from the side.  The trade off is mobility. Front armor of the Panther is better than the Tiger I.  So ... Panther ... always point at your enemy  

[SCG_judgedeath3]

^
That, unlike the front, the panther is vulnerable on the sides to most guns of the era hence it was seen as weak on the sides as many expect it to be like tiger. They did at least with the G series improve it from 40 mm to 45mm on the upper sides.

[352ndOscar]

Single shot from a Sherman into the side nailed me - no problem!  PROTECT you’re flanks......

[kubanloewe]

vs KI the Panther sucks . Shermans kill it from 1000m after several hits frontal....in 90% the first hits damage always the canon, and after another 2-4rounds the canon is complete red...while no other thing is broken except perhaps a track damage.

[namhee2]

Panther Fibel:

 

 

Panther Fibel.zip

[Blitzen]

The co-axial machine gun  use with periscope takes some getting used to...

[Crashbangwallop]

On 1/22/2020 at 10:47 AM, Koenigstiger said:

- the commander can dive so that he only looks over the cupola edge
 

 

How do I make the commander adopt this low position? Is it just the Panther commander that does this?

[Koenigstiger]

Hello Crashbangwallop

 

to get the low position you have to go to

 

> Settings > Key assignment > Head control of the pilot > Move the pilot's head up or down! I do this with the number keys 8 (up) and 2 (down).

 

So I can see, it is in this time only possible for the Panther tank !

greetings

Guenther

Edited January 23, 2020 by Koenigstiger

[Crashbangwallop]

47 minutes ago, Koenigstiger said:

to get the low position you have to go to

 

Thanks Guenther, will give that a go

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Koenigstiger said:

Hello Crashbangwallop

 

to get the low position you have to go to

 

> Settings > Key assignment > Head control of the pilot > Move the pilot's head up or down! I do this with the number keys 8 (up) and 2 (down).

 

So I can see, it is in this time only possible for the Panther tank !

greetings

Guenther

My commander had a low head position by default, when unbuttoned. The problem with changing the head position up or down, when unbuttoned is, it changes the head position, when you are buttoned, as well, so you don't see through the glass blocks anymore. At least it was that way, when I tried it earlier.

BTW, the one thing I am waiting for now, is a pink skin.

[uumepunda]

On 1/23/2020 at 12:27 AM, kubanloewe said:

in 90% the first hits damage always the canon

Same problem was with Tiger - it was bug and fixed, maybe bug-report needed again?

[Cacodemon96]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:55 PM, Koenigstiger said:

Hello Crashbangwallop

 

to get the low position you have to go to

 

> Settings > Key assignment > Head control of the pilot > Move the pilot's head up or down! I do this with the number keys 8 (up) and 2 (down).

 

So I can see, it is in this time only possible for the Panther tank !

greetings

Guenther

 

Are you sure it does anything from 3rd person perspective? By assigning these controls all I do is move my view, which I normally do with TrackIR and position of the model itself doesn't change.

[Torrens]

I still haven't tried Panther in an extensive fight, but so far I'm absolutely in love with the functionality of the commander's cupola and the suspension. The vision slits are wide and makes it very easy to see every angle without opening the hatch. I can move my head in the cupola and can always comfortably observe my surroundings unlike with many other tanks. Tiger 1's commander cupola is horrible in comparison with the small slits. The suspension is awesome and the smoothess makes it feel like I'm driving a modern tank. Can't say much about the gun or armor but I predict that the weak top and side armor effectively makes keeping a Panther alive more challenging than Tiger despite the improved mobility, front armor and weapons system.

[MikhaVT]

On 1/22/2020 at 6:24 AM, -=-THERION said:

 

Well, the upper part of the side hull isn't actually the problem, but if you get hit just between the tracks and the upper hull, then you will definitely

have a huge problem, because the thickness of vertical steel plates aren't that strong. Therefore, don't forget your side skirts.

I think it's important to note that while the armor on the lower hull is thinner, the suspension should make up for much of it. There were a few layers of roadwheels after all. 

 

On 1/22/2020 at 12:06 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

It's relative.  The Tiger had very strong side armor that was difficult to penetrate at medium range with a US 75mm or a Russian 76mm.  The Panther could easily be defeated by a Sherman or T34 76mm from the side.  The trade off is mobility. Front armor of the Panther is better than the Tiger I.  So ... Panther ... always point at your enemy  

From WWII Ballistics: Armor and Gunnery 

• 50mm of armor at a 30 degree slope resisting a 75mm diameter shell makes the armor effectively around 60mm thick. 
• 75mm gun M3 with AP: 750m, 66mm of penetration
• 75mm gun M3 with APCBC: 2500m, 65mm of penetration
• 76mm gun M1 with APCBC: 3000m, 83mm of penetration 
• 76.2mm gun F-34 with APBC: 1000m, 62mm, 70mm (BR-350, and BR-350B)*

*Data on the 76.2mm F-34 gun lists the BR-350 rounds as being "APBC" but it looks like that round is APHE. Another portion of the document references the APHE shells for the same gun as penetrating 63mm at 750m, and that solid shot would penetrate 67mm at 750m. 

 

All the above data is against FHA since the panther had FHA not RHA. While i'm not too familiar with the eastern front's supply of lend-lease ammo, i would suspect that the 75mm gun M3 did not have much APCBC (M61 shells) ammo available. Likewise, for the timeframe this game is set in the 76mm gun M1 is mostly irrelevant as it didnt get fielded much at all. Finally, with the optics on the M4A2 (M3 periscope with 1x magnification) i feel hitting the panther at some of those ranges would be pretty difficult ?.

 

So yep, panther has to watch its sides like many other tanks do. 

[THERION]

10 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

I think it's important to note that while the armor on the lower hull is thinner, the suspension should make up for much of it. There were a few layers of roadwheels after all. 

 

 

Absolutely correct - the same approach was also on the Tiger I. It wasn't only to mitigate the ground pressure, but also as additional protection. But if you look at

the gap between the wheels/track and the upper hull armor of the Panther and compare it with the Tiger I, the Panther had considerably less protected flanks,

especially when side skirts where left out.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

On 1/26/2020 at 6:11 PM, Kataphrakt said:

*Data on the 76.2mm F-34 gun lists the BR-350 rounds as being "APBC" but it looks like that round is APHE.

 

The 76mm BR-350s rounds had blunt noses with a ballistic cap on top of it.

[kubanloewe]

i really dont like the sound of it ingame....especially the outside sound.   there are plenty of examples out there and some Panthers drive every year where devs could get good sound material !

 

[III/JG2Gustav05]

On 1/26/2020 at 11:39 AM, Torrens said:

I still haven't tried Panther in an extensive fight, but so far I'm absolutely in love with the functionality of the commander's cupola and the suspension. The vision slits are wide and makes it very easy to see every angle without opening the hatch. I can move my head in the cupola and can always comfortably observe my surroundings unlike with many other tanks. Tiger 1's commander cupola is horrible in comparison with the small slits. The suspension is awesome and the smoothess makes it feel like I'm driving a modern tank. Can't say much about the gun or armor but I predict that the weak top and side armor effectively makes keeping a Panther alive more challenging than Tiger despite the improved mobility, front armor and weapons system.

The real tiger's cylinder cupola's visibility is much better than the one we have in game because bullet proof glasses' refraction. Commander can have 360 view as long as he want to move his head. The blue lines in the diagram are the light paths.

Edited March 8, 2020 by III/JG2Gustav05

[69th_chuter]

 

This (Panther) is another tank (along with Panzer IV) that has a reverse rolling odometer.  Counting down to doomsday ...

[III/JG2Gustav05]

I am very lucky this time. The KV-1 used up all its ammo from 500m without score any penetration in spite of both tracks are broken and main gun is damaged, no leakage of fuel tanks, no deflection of shell to smash driver and radio man's roof.