Developer Diary 236 - Discussion

[von_Michelstamm]

Any hints on what improvements are going to be in 4.004?
Hope you all had a great holiday break!

Edited January 17, 2020 by von_Michelstamm

[Coldman]

can someone post dots on map where those airfields will be? TAW western front is on its way and we need more airfields!!

[SCG_Wulfe]

49 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I forgot to mention, in general I think the move to deferred rendering and continuous improvement in graphics and graphical fidelity is fantastic. The developers are dedicated to their product, and they keep modifying and renewing their engine.

 

This product line will have a long future.

 

This is evident. If I had not gotten Battle of Normandy yet, I would buy it now.

 

Deferred rendering will cost more GPU resources  and slow things down in VR ?

[Ribbon]

4 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

 

DCS runs 1.25 times better in VR in my PC than IL2 does.

Also looks (slightly) better.

 

p.s. - that is not to say DCS is a better game. Il-2 is an actual complete game and more fun, still have trouble figuring out what DCS actually is...

Same here, dcs runs better on higher settings and PD with more AI in the scenery on my PC.

Which was not the case in the past.

I hope Deferred rendering will boost il2 VR performance as it is more complete and playable gameplay wise!

13 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Deferred rendering will cost more GPU resources  and slow things down in VR ?

I really hope not, my pc already struggle in VR when more than 7 AI planes and dozen ground units in it.

Actually my fps gain remains stable while i get stutters so i it should help by removing load from cpu.

[blitze]

4 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

DCS runs 1.25 times better in VR in my PC than IL2 does.

Also looks (slightly) better.

 

p.s. - that is not to say DCS is a better game. Il-2 is an actual complete game and more fun, still have trouble figuring out what DCS actually is...

Funny, for me at the same settings Il2 runs 1.25 times better LOL.

 

DCS looks better in a few things (and that is the OpenBeta) but the clouds not there yet, they seem plastic like and pop and the terrain is no way as nicely modeled.

 

DCS is a missile sim where by you are the target and the missiles enjoy shooting you down. ?

I am looking forward to Modern Air Combat (for the updated models and graphics) and the campaigns are ok but, Il2 - now that is a sim of love.  Jets whilst rewarding (only use it for jets) are no way near as fun as the aerial dance of WW2 birds.?

 

I am looking forward though to what Deferred Shading brings to the table and the other improvements in Il2 are always a great march forward for this series.  Beyond, bring on Vulcan - Live long and prosper (Non Kelvin time line) ?

[=SqSq=Civilprotection]

So I've done a little research on deferred shading, and basically what I have come up with is what has pretty much been mentioned on the thread already. The engine can render significantly more light sources in a scene, and transparencies will need to be handled after the main render. So I'm trying to think where extra light sources might improve the game experience, and I've come up with the following list:

 

1. nav/landing/formation lights could be improved (or at least handled differently)
2. cockpit back lighting and lamp lighting may be improved, as well as misc. lights (ammo counters, gear indicators, ect.)
3. more individual lights from muzzle flash from guns. (as it is now, it looks like clusters of guns share a light source)
4. flash from tracer or explosive ammo
5. light from bomb explosions and fires
6. illumination bombs
7. City lights (lamp posts, windows, landmark structures... assuming they're not practicing a blackout)

That's all I have. maybe others will think of something more.

[FuriousMeow]

"We're researching the possibility of moving the rendering engine to Deferred Shading tech. "

[Uufflakke]

About the ' visually improved banks of the countless rivers and canals on the Rheinland map', is it an improvement in textures or is it also related to slight elevations, so land is above the waterline? In the screenshot it is hard to see.

 

Something like this I am referring to:

 

[OBT-Lionel]

what I regret,  is that there are no announcements concerning the improvement of the visibility of the contacts

[rowdyb00t]

10 minutes ago, Uufflakke said:

 

About the ' visually improved banks of the countless rivers and canals on the Rheinland map', is it an improvement in textures or is it also related to slight elevations, so land is above the waterline? In the screenshot it is hard to see.

 

     Look at the tree shadows in the pic. Seems to me that it’s the same elevation as the land. 

[SCG_motoadve]

56 minutes ago, =SqSq=Civilprotection said:

So I've done a little research on deferred shading, and basically what I have come up with is what has pretty much been mentioned on the thread already. The engine can render significantly more light sources in a scene, and transparencies will need to be handled after the main render. So I'm trying to think where extra light sources might improve the game experience, and I've come up with the following list:

 

1. nav/landing/formation lights could be improved (or at least handled differently)
2. cockpit back lighting and lamp lighting may be improved, as well as misc. lights (ammo counters, gear indicators, ect.)
3. more individual lights from muzzle flash from guns. (as it is now, it looks like clusters of guns share a light source)
4. flash from tracer or explosive ammo
5. light from bomb explosions and fires
6. illumination bombs
7. City lights (lamp posts, windows, landmark structures... assuming they're not practicing a blackout)

That's all I have. maybe others will think of something more.

Maybe they are looking into it to help visibility of the contacts ? which is pretty bad.

[C6_lefuneste]

3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Will it make 3dmigoto mod impossible? We rely on the zoom. Without your mod, we could not ID aircrafts... (ingame zoom goes cross-eyed with canted displays). 

No because I made a 3dmigoto mod for DCS.

[C6_Claymore]

1 hour ago, OBT-Lionel said:

what I regret,  is that there are no announcements concerning the improvement of the visibility of the contacts

 

+ 1000 !

[Rei-sen]

2 hours ago, =SqSq=Civilprotection said:

flash from tracer or explosive ammo

I really hope that among other significant issues, the tracers will be changed as well. Right now they are too large, look very cartoonish. When you're firing 20mm cannons it looks like as if you're launching unguided rockets instead. And those lazer beams suit some space arcade rather that combat flight sim. They should be toned down. Even in 1946 tracers look way more realistic.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Arthur-A

[Jason_Williams]

10 hours ago, Tokkotai said:

Nice update! 

Btw  is there any Information about the release of the  "Custom Single-Player Missions" for Bodenplatte?

Going to be a little while.

 

Jason

4 hours ago, OBT-Lionel said:

what I regret,  is that there are no announcements concerning the improvement of the visibility of the contacts

When or if we have news on this we’ll post it. Right now there is none.

 

Jason

[Dakpilot]

8 hours ago, OBT-Lionel said:

what I regret,  is that there are no announcements concerning the improvement of the visibility of the contacts

 

There were  statements made that they are looking into it and feedback being gathered just before the holidays. 

 

It is now just after the holidays... What do you actually realistically expect? ?

 

Not sure I would want you as my boss

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

 

[PapaFlo]

Good News. Thx 

[Tokkotai]

6 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Going to be a little while.

 

Jason

When or if we have news on this we’ll post it. Right now there is none.

 

Jason

Thank you very much for the Information!

[ST_ami7b5]

Still not a single word about FC vol 2...
? 

[Redglyph]

11 hours ago, blitze said:

Funny, for me at the same settings Il2 runs 1.25 times better LOL.

 

DCS looks better in a few things (and that is the OpenBeta) but the clouds not there yet, they seem plastic like and pop and the terrain is no way as nicely modeled.

 

 

 

Yeah, it seems people with different hardware get very different results in DCS performances, but oddly, also different improvement over time (getting worse and worse for me, but others see better overall performance). It really requires the latest high-end hardware.

 

I'm looking forward to a Normandy map that is running smoothly, with realistic damage modelling of WWII planes and nice clouds, because we don't have that yet. Even better if the framerate is good and there are no regular load freezes. Though the cities are popping up in IL-2 when the user is looking in their direction, and don't blend as well in the countryside when seen from farther away, but that's WIP.

 

I like DCS for the depth of the system modelling and the variety of available aircraft, but each time I'm trying a campaign or even a simple flight, there are so many broken features that I find it too distracting to continue, especially when those issues last for years and have lower priority than new stuff. In comparison, IL-2 doesn't go in such depths (on purpose), lacks any form of up-to-date documentation, but it's much more reliable, immersive and enjoyable. It's just a different approach, let's hope they take the upsides of one another over time.

[L1A1]

Awesome, the panther is looking good, i'm looking forward to that showing up ...

[ST_Catchov]

15 hours ago, ST_ami7b5 said:

Still not a single word about FC vol 2...
?

 

Well with BoN full steam ahead it's not surprising. I'm still hopeful there will be a vol. 2 though. I mean, as it currently stands it is so incomplete on so many levels surely there will be a vol. 2. Otherwise what a waste of unfulfilled potential. 

[sevenless]

2 minutes ago, catchov said:

 

Well with BoN full steam ahead it's not surprising. I'm still hopeful there will be a vol. 2 though. I mean, as it currently stands it is so incomplete on so many levels surely there will be a vol. 2. Otherwise what a waste of unfulfilled potential. 

 

True that. 

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2020/01/18/what-i-hope-to-see-in-flying-circus-vol-2/

[VacMaster1991]

What is the release date for 4.004

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, VacMaster1991 said:

What is the release date for 4.004

 

Like all the previous ones - when ready. Would you like them to release it any earlier than that?

[Enceladus828]

I'd say end of January/early February for 4.004

[Yogiflight]

5 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

7 hours ago, VacMaster1991 said:

What is the release date for 4.004

 

Like all the previous ones - when ready. Would you like them to release it any earlier than that?

Or if they were ready with it earlier, wait for the announced date to release it

[Lusekofte]

This BON thing give me good vibes 

[sevenless]

10 hours ago, VacMaster1991 said:

What is the release date for 4.004

 

My bet is on Tuesday, 28th of January.

[JuliMonkey]

On 1/17/2020 at 8:38 PM, =LG=Coldman said:

can someone post dots on map where those airfields will be? TAW western front is on its way and we need more airfields!!

I hope all the coordinates i found were right.

AD stands for Arnheim Deelen

SB ... Soesterberg

SF ... Strassfeld

SF2 ... Strassfeld 2

HV ... Hilversum

[LizLemon]

On 1/17/2020 at 2:10 PM, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Deferred rendering will cost more GPU resources  and slow things down in VR ?

 

It should make rendering lots of light sources "free". Although how much this is of benefit in a flight sim is a bit dubious imho. CloD uses deffered and you can see the benefit with things like gear indicator lights casting in the cockpit. But it's not like there are tons of light sources in a flight sim, certainly not as many as the kinds of FPS/TPS games where deffered made a big difference. This will also likely come at the cost of real MSAA, meaning supersampling or a good post-aa will be needed.

 

What would make a huge difference is going over to a PBR pipeline, but they'd have to redo/improve pretty much every asset to make that work.

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

All good to hear, but it’s been a while since we’ve heard about Air Marshal

[sevenless]

BTW: I hope they don´t forget about adding coniferous trees to the Rhineland map. BoM has coniferous trees on its map so it shouldn´t be that hard to implement those to BoBP?

 

Some prominent areas as Ardennes, Huertgenwald or Reichswald were mostly fir and spruce forests.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 1/17/2020 at 9:57 PM, FuriousMeow said:

"We're researching the possibility of moving the rendering engine to Deferred Shading tech. "

Read a lot of voices now on deferred rendering, especially in the jump from AC to AC Competezione, and the DCS transition, and I am more hesitant now. If VR performance had to suffer, this might not be received very well. Anyway, hoping for the best. They've pulled some amazing feats so far. ?

 

If they can pull it off without the performance suffering, the world is theirs. ?

Edited January 20, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Trog1odyte]

On 1/19/2020 at 1:44 AM, catchov said:

 

Well with BoN full steam ahead it's not surprising. I'm still hopeful there will be a vol. 2 though. I mean, as it currently stands it is so incomplete on so many levels surely there will be a vol. 2. Otherwise what a waste of unfulfilled potential. 

 

If I understand Jason correctly, FC2 is on hold.  Maybe we can get a clarification please, Jason?

[dburne]

15 minutes ago, Trog1odyte said:

 

If I understand Jason correctly, FC2 is on hold.  Maybe we can get a clarification please, Jason?

 

[Trog1odyte]

28 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

 

Yes, how do you understand it?

[dburne]

4 minutes ago, Trog1odyte said:

 

Yes, how do you understand it?

 

That FC is getting some single player content attention. 

The future I am sure is not quite known for both FC and Tank Crew - FC being recently released and Tank Crew still in development.

 

 

[ZachariasX]

14 minutes ago, Trog1odyte said:

Yes, how do you understand it?

It‘s rather clear. Jason shares your goals and once he has the resources needed, he‘ll produce the things you are asking for. You want things sooner than that, buy what they are offering. Anything of that will in fact do. This and this alone will make things go faster to where you want them to be. I‘m not aware of any producer sticking to his promises as Jason does. He deserves our support as well. 

[Trooper117]

Again, Jason has mentioned for FC and TC, people can help by buying them... it suggests that perhaps they have not reached a perceived target?... if there was one of course.

Any kind of input on the SP front for FC is a welcome step forward however, and TC has yet to complete.

I'm sure that these titles could be put on hold for future development anyway, and later on when Jason and Co are in a better position to progress with them they can be expanded once more.