Default formations?

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Hello!  
 

just wondering what the default formations are for both sides..

I feel like finger four was mostly used by the Luftwaffe... 

early brits was Vic, wasn’t too great for covering each other....etc...

 

also, what would the max aircraft in a flight be?  I see pics(somewhere online)of close to ten aircraft flying line abreast or echelon right/left...   

 

what is the max ac we can get formed in SP?

 

Do we have box formation for bombers?

 

ok back to work!!  Thanks!

 

 

[Gretsch_Man]

In IL-2, Luftwaffe typically flies with either 2, 4 or 6 plane formation, while the Russians are flying mostly in 3 or 6 plane formations. Not sure about British/US formations, but I think they are handled same as the Russians.

 

However in single-player, once contact is made with the other side, the human player pretty much is left on his/her own. Really wish the game to have better AI behavoir in that respect.

[Jaegermeister]

Funny you should bring that up. I have been meaning to post an observation. The normal US fighter formation was the finger four. The leader had his wingman on his left wing. The second element leader was on his right wing with the second element wingman behind to the right of him.

 

                A

       A              A

                              A

 

In game, leader is in front, number 2 is on his left wing, number 3 is on his right wing, but number four is behind number 2 on the left. This is Wrong.

 

when you break formation, the second element is on opposite sides and cannot break together. This should be corrected.

 

i am almost certain it is the same for German formations, but I would need to find references to verify.

 

Luftwaffe fighters originated the finger four and the British eventually followed suit after BoB. The Americans used the Four plane flight from the beginning of WWII. US designated flights by color. Red flight, white flight and blue flight were usually first, then yellow, green, brown. 

 

For US it was always 4 ship flights unless someone aborted and then they dropped to 2 ship elements. Aborts were assigned an escort. There were 2 spares for anything over 2 flights so there were sometimes 3 ship flights in Vic formation if spares had to take different flights.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[vonGraf]

I would really like to have (or be) a wingman/Kaczmarek and flying the 'Rotte' system in the Luftwaffe career.

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, vonGraf said:

I would really like to have (or be) a wingman/Kaczmarek and flying the 'Rotte' system in the Luftwaffe career.

In game, when you fly as number 4, 2 and 3 will start the engagements together (they anyhow fly like Siamese twins), leaving the leader alone. I tried to fly with the leader, to protect him (as it is usually the leader, the enemy fighters concentrate on, so he often gets killed very soon, as your flight mates are just flying around, without helping anyone), but friendly AI is flying so much nonsense in engagements, that I gave up, it was just too frustrating.

[Ram399]

Can't speak for the RAF or USAAF as I don't own Bodenplatte yet, I am however familiar with the AI VVS and Luftwaffe.

As Gretsch_Man said, the Luftwaffe usually flies fighter formations of 2, 4, and 6, while the VVS favors flights of 3 and 6- with the exception of VVS escort flights which fly with either 3 or 5 aircraft for whatever reason.

The default formation for all fighter flights regardless of size is right edge.  This is once again with the exception of escorting flights of fighters however, as both sides fly escort flights in a vertical weaving column of sorts above the aircraft they are escorting with the leader at the bottom and then each successive aircraft around 150 meters above him.
 

For Luftwaffe ground attack aircraft such as FW-190s, Bf-109 Es, and Bf-110s they fly in right edge formation as fighters do, generally in flights of 6.

For VVS ground attack aircraft, aka all the IL-2s, they generally fly in flights of either 3 or 6 and do so in V formation with the leader at the front.

For Luftwaffe bombers, He-111s and Ju-88s both fly in V formation, while Stukas fly in the standard right edge.  All three types generally fly in flights of 3, 6, or 9 with one leader.
 

For VVS bombers, both Pe-2s and A-20s fly in V elements of 3 aircraft, each with their own flight leader, with a number of these V elements being combined to form larger flights. 
There can be as few as a single V element of 3 bombers in small raids, and up to 4 V elements of 3 bombers for large raids- making for the largest in-game formations seen in the career, as there can be up to 12 Soviet bombers divided into 4 V formations escorted by an additional 5 fighter aircraft in extreme cases.
It is important to note however, that each V element retains its own leader and can effectively act as an independent flight should it need to.

Historically, Luftwaffe fighter Schwarms were divided into two pairs known as Rottes and flew in finger-four formation (as did the USAAF).
This isn't replicated by default in-game. 
However, if in career mode your pilot has been appointed squadron commander, or is leading a flight with 3 wingmen, you can replicate a sort of finger-four by ordering the flight into V formation. 

This can be done either pre-mission by the commander who can adjust the formations for each waypoint on the Headquarters tab of the career menu, or by the flight leader in-game by opening the leader commands with the ~ key and then going to formation section and selecting V formation. 
This way, assuming there are 4 aircraft counting the player, the flight will adopt a formation with 2 aircraft left of the leader and 1 aircraft to the right, effectively resulting in a backwards finger-four.

Pics Related are 4 Bf-109 G4s turning in right-edge, and 3 V-Elements of Soviet A-20s being attacked by more Bf-109s

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Ram399 said:

while Stukas fly in the standard right edge.

Only AI flights. When you fly Stuka career, you are flying in a flight of 9 in V- formation.

1 hour ago, Ram399 said:

For VVS bombers, both Pe-2s and A-20s fly in V elements of 3 aircraft, each with their own flight leader, with a number of these V elements being combined to form larger flights. 
There can be as few as a single V element of 3 bombers in small raids, and up to 4 V elements of 3 bombers for large raids- making for the largest in-game formations seen in the career, as there can be up to 12 Soviet bombers divided into 4 V formations escorted by an additional 5 fighter aircraft in extreme cases.
It is important to note however, that each V element retains its own leader and can effectively act as an independent flight should it need to.

This was a great step forward, when it was implemented with the career mode at the release of BOK. Negative thing here, when one bomber of an element gets seriously damaged, all three bombers of this flight jettison their bombs and RTB. To prevent the bombers from bombing their target, it is enough to damage one bomber per element.

[Ram399]

23 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Negative thing here, when one bomber of an element gets seriously damaged, all three bombers of this flight jettison their bombs and RTB. To prevent the bombers from bombing their target, it is enough to damage one bomber per element.

I've noticed that as well.  It makes taking down A-20s far too easy in German fighter careers as they become giant deflection targets as soon as they turn off course.
A massive group like that should stay together rather than fragment at the first sign of damage.

[Sgt_Joch]

There were a lot of variations, by mid late war, most LW fighters were using a "loose deuce" formation of 2 ships with leader/wingman alternating attacking/covering depending on the tactical situation. These could then be stacked into 4 or 8 ship formation with for example, one 2 ship element providing cover for another 2 ship element, etc. BTW, this has become the normal formation postwar for most air forces. This was against fighters, when attacking bombers, they would use more mass formations.

 

The standard US formation was the finger four formation as explained above, but the USAAF was never a stickler for imposing doctrine, pilots had a lot of leeway to experiment, as long as it worked. Many US flights used formations similar to the German "loose deuce" formation.