Flying the IL2 in career mode - rear gunners?

[maxs]

Hey all! Newbie here

 

I've been playing with Career mode (loving the features so far!) - one item I am getting hung up on is how the AI selects load outs.

 

I'm flying a Jr. officer, so I'm not messing with loadouts for the team - I'm noticing that the AI commander *never* selects the turret gunner variant of the IL2 for the squadron to fly. So far I haven't been super impressed with the AI, which leads to our planes flying in formation straight towards the target and taking turns getting pummeled by AI fighter cover - friendly fighter cover don't seem to be much of a help in fending off enemy AI, so it feels like we're left defenseless. 

 

I feel like turret gunners would at least help provide some defense in these situations - is there any historical reason why these wouldn't be used? Does it depend on which squadron I pick in career? Is the only solution here to just take over the squadron and assign my own load outs?

 

(sidenote: are there any AI improvement mods out there?)

Edited January 7, 2020 by maxs

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Well, If you're flying the 1941 model, I don't think you can get a gunner.  If you're flying a '42, you might have to balance between ordinance loadout and gunner.  A fully loaded '42 with a gunner is very heavy and will probably require more time on target due to having to extend out farther on each pass to turn back more gently.  So, it's either lighten the loadout and take the gunner or take all the bombs you can and leave the gunner.  

 

If you're flying the '43 then the gunner is default but, you may notice that the ordinance configurations are also "trimmed back" slightly to account for the extra weight of the gunner and other beefed-up armor and construction that came with it.  On the upside, the '43's engine can be run nominally with a slightly higher manifold pressure, meaning a bit more power to work with.  

[maxs]

Thank you for the info! I should have specified that I'm flying the first summer career in BOS so I think this would the the 42 version. So it sounds like playing careers that come later would have the AI commanders choose the rear gunner variant??

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, maxs said:

I'm flying the first summer career in BOS so I think this would the the 42 version.

Not necessarily. There are still flying 41 versions, at least I constantly have them as opponents, when flying german fighters. From what I've seen so far, you can recognize them pretty easy in the career mode, the 41 is simply green, the 42 has camouflage painting.

2 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Well, If you're flying the 1941 model, I don't think you can get a gunner.  If you're flying a '42, you might have to balance between ordinance loadout and gunner.  A fully loaded '42 with a gunner is very heavy and will probably require more time on target due to having to extend out farther on each pass to turn back more gently.  So, it's either lighten the loadout and take the gunner or take all the bombs you can and leave the gunner.

This is quite intersting. When I see Il 2s turning, with bombs and rockets on board, it is hard to believe, they were flying at the edge of their weight.

[CrazyDuck]

Version -42 is the one with gunner as option. I never take it.

 

Firstly, it's armed only with a single ShKAS (a light 7,62 mm machinegun), which can't really do all that much versus german fighters. While you can occasionally damage the 109's fuel tank or cause it to leak oil, you really can't do anything but scratch paint of Fw 190 (if only pilot isn't a total n00b and hangs around your tail and poses as a target for your gunner to train on).

Secondly, there is virtually no armor around the gunner (he is sitting behind the armored capsule which protects the pilot, engine and fuel tank) so he's completely exposed to enemy fire from rear hemisphere which makes his life difficult.

And thirdly, gunner is very draggy, it causes your plane to slow down for some 40 kph. Considering this, I believe the costs far outweight the benefits.

 

Story is completely different with model 43, where all these drawbacks are addressed: 1. Gunner has a hard hitting UBS heavy MG, which will make any German pilot think twice about a direct 6 o'clock approach; 2. he is protected by armor at sides and rear, and 3. extended canopy minimizes additional drag and uprated engine more than makes up for it.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Not necessarily. There are still flying 41 versions, at least I constantly have them as opponents, when flying german fighters.

 

No M41s are at Stalingrad. 

 

To the other point, there are predefined loadouts for each mission type a plane flies in career mode. None of the loadouts for the Il-2 M42 feature the rear gunner, because it wasn't a standard configuration and because there is no way to randomize when the rear gun mod shows up (unlike aircraft skins). 

[maxs]

All super interesting!

 

24 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

No M41s are at Stalingrad. 

 

To the other point, there are predefined loadouts for each mission type a plane flies in career mode. None of the loadouts for the Il-2 M42 feature the rear gunner, because it wasn't a standard configuration and because there is no way to randomize when the rear gun mod shows up (unlike aircraft skins). 

 

 

Does this mean that there are predefined loadouts with tail gunner for the 43 version that the AI squadron commander would choose? Sorry if this is a dumb question, stumbling my way through the game here

Edited January 8, 2020 by maxs

[=FEW=fernando11]

I'm quite sure the il2 1943 has the rear gunner as default. And can't be taken out.

[Yogiflight]

As far as I noticed, the loadout for ground attack mission is for one model, always the same. If you want different loadouts, depending on your target, you have to fly as leader, or even be the squadron commander, so you can change the loadouts for your flight yourself.

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, maxs said:

Does this mean that there are predefined loadouts with tail gunner for the 43 version that the AI squadron commander would choose? Sorry if this is a dumb question, stumbling my way through the game here

 

The tail gunner is always there on the M43, yes. That variant of the Il-2 was delivered that way from the factories.

[maxs]

Got it - thank you everyone!!