After much multiplayer-ing... (Well Done!)

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

After much time in multiplayer, I finally decided to give a single player campaign a go.  Thinking to myself, "I've put in many hours, let's see what the game has.", I set the difficulty to hard and ironman, runway start and medium frontline activity.  I decided on a BoM campaign with the series' namesake the trusty IL-2.

 

At first I had trouble keeping formation until I realized that the group wasn't flying with full-out max continuous settings, but more realistic cruise settings. Flying at the slightly slower speed and power settings was challenging to say the least. I also had a reason to have to do things like work the radiators to maintain proper temperatures, instead of just leaving them wide open.

Being that I had no idea of what I was jumping into, I figured it would be best to follow suit and keep my armored canopy closed. I didn't want to get hit by any unexpected flak. It made staying in formation and being aware of the other planes all the more difficult. I was #4, so not making any move that would disrupt #5 or #6 was important. 

 

About halfway there, I saw a formation of 3 fighters out ahead. I couldn't identify them. The leader fired 2 flares and the leader of my flight fired 2 as well - sign and countersign. O.K. That's our escort, good.  A little closer to the target I saw another flight of 3. These turned out to be Yaks, also good.  Then the radio got real busy. 

The next thing I know the whole flight is getting jumped by 109s and 190s and we start a defensive weaving pattern that scared the crap out of me. The clouds were heavy at 650m and between flying through them and not knowing if I'm going to collide with the planes I can't see, I was helpless to do anything but to stick with my leader in the #3 position. 

There were tracers flying past my plane as the others right next to me were being boom-and-zoomed and I had no way of telling if I was going to be shot at next.  Then I saw my leader's (#3) plane veer off and toward the ground. He was obviously dead.  The plane had that certain indescribable way of moving that could only indicate the pilot was dead. 

After some more frantic weaving through the clouds, I managed to spot another from my flight and follow him until the remaining of us were regrouped.  A few minutes later we were at the target and the Germans were lobbing everything and a kitchen sink full of week-old dishes at us.  We made our attack. 

 

Forget accuracy. I spotted a group of enemy vehicles and lobbed everything I had into their general area and strafed whatever looked like it was in the way of my guns. Then I stayed low and attempted to evade the ground fire following me.  Still, I heard many bullets hitting my plane.  One of my squad mate cried out "I'm wounded!" and promptly crashed. After extending far enough away, my flight leader turned around to make another attack. I followed and braced myself. Another team mate drifted off and went in without a sound on the radio.  The rest of us dove at the target, guns blazing and causing great mayhem to the ground units. Finally, the message that the mission was accomplished was received.  Those of us who were left peeled off and got onto our egress heading with not only the target's AAA shooting at us, but also frontline units as well. 

 

All told, only 3 of us, out of six made it back. The fighter combat was so intense that only 1 MiG, riddled with bullets, survived - and none of the German planes. Somehow our flight leader didn't get a scratch while myself and #6 limped home wondering if our planes were just going to suddenly quit at any moment. The flight home, with the lone MiG still escorting was uneventful, but gave me time enough to make me think of how lucky I truly am to have never had to experience something like that in real life. 

 

I never really thought I'd be much oriented toward playing the single player content, but I am glad this changed my mind. 

 

TL;DR - After much multiplayer-ing. I took the time to start a single player campaign. I didn't realize just how intense it could be. Very glad I found out.  Well done, Devs!

[MasserME262]

2 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

The flight home, with the lone MiG still escorting was uneventful, but gave me time enough to make me think of how lucky I truly am to have never had to experience something like that in real life. 

this is gold.

 

Btw, you can try Sea Dragons. I decided to give it a try few days ago and I can't believe I'm enjoying flying the IL2 that much, totally unexpected.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

5 hours ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

this is gold.

 

Btw, you can try Sea Dragons. I decided to give it a try few days ago and I can't believe I'm enjoying flying the IL2 that much, totally unexpected.

 

Thank you for saying so.  

 

That is a good suggestion.  I'm going to give it a go and start a Sea Dragons campaign sometime this week.  If QMB ship-borne AAA is any indicator of what I might be in for, I'm going to need a few hours of praying and meditation before each sortie.  lol 

[MikhaVT]

9 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

At first I had trouble keeping formation until I realized that the group wasn't flying with full-out max continuous settings, but more realistic cruise settings. Flying at the slightly slower speed and power settings was challenging to say the least. I also had a reason to have to do things like work the radiators to maintain proper temperatures, instead of just leaving them wide open.

 

I cant imagine flying with radiators wide open all the time, that costs you so much speed. On the Yak-1 closing radiators from 50% to 0% will get you around 10 kph, and i imagine opening the radiator to 100% would cost you another 10 kph. working the radiators can get you something like a minute of 0% radiators to give you that speed boost you need to survive. 

 

Not to mention that most aircraft i've flown on VVS have only needed like 20-40% radiators to maintain temps.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

38 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

 

I cant imagine flying with radiators wide open all the time, that costs you so much speed. On the Yak-1 closing radiators from 50% to 0% will get you around 10 kph, and i imagine opening the radiator to 100% would cost you another 10 kph. working the radiators can get you something like a minute of 0% radiators to give you that speed boost you need to survive. 

 

Not to mention that most aircraft i've flown on VVS have only needed like 20-40% radiators to maintain temps.

 

Actually, the big box radiator on the bottom of the IL-2 is least drag inducing at 100% as it is not a flap that sticks out into the wind, but an armor "Venetian window blind" type slat inside the box. The other radiator is also a flow-through type design that appears to have no flaps that stick out either.  If you run the IL-2 at maximum continuous settings, a.k.a 1% below combat and/or boosted mode, you'll need to run the radiators wide open.  

 

BTW:  On the Yak 1.69 the flush (not sticking into the wind) setting for the water rad is 60%. The 1.b is 40%, and the 7 is 50%.  Opening beyond that does cool faster, (and the 7 needs all the help it can get) but closing more than that should actually be detrimental as well.  Basically, closing the radiator all the way should cause the air to enter the front scoop, but have nowhere to go. I don't see how completely stopping the radiator scoop's flow-through increases speed.  If there was a frontal panel that stopped the air from packing up into the scoop as well, then I could understand it.  

 

Also, if you don't fly multiplayer, then you don't know that everybody pushes the engines to the maximum non-damaging setting all the time during cruise flight with almost zero reason to cut back.  Most maps are to close together to worry about fuel efficiency and most flights are too short to worry about engine performance degradation toward the end of a long flight.  

Fly those settings in a heavy dogfight with your radiator settings and see what happens when everything gets ~250kph for more than a few minutes.  The Yak-1's will surely overheat and the Yak-7 will at the very least have a near-death experience. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Mobile_BBQ

[MikhaVT]

29 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Basically, closing the radiator all the way should cause the air to enter the front scoop, but have nowhere to go.

 

Yes, fluid dynamics says this is mostly the same as a plate over the front of said radiator. it's just different geometry of it. If air cant get out then air cant get in. 

 

30 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

I don't see how completely stopping the radiator scoop's flow-through increases speed.

 

Check the specs in IL-2 compare. The Yak-1 gains considerable speed from the rads, but the yak-7 only gains about 2-3 kph. I havent checked the actual IL-2. 

 

32 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Actually, the big box radiator on the bottom of the IL-2 is least drag inducing at 100% as it is not a flap that sticks out into the wind, but an armor "Venetian window blind" type slat inside the box.

 

What will have more aerodynamic drag? a Box, or a radiator of equal frontal area? This doesnt have a definite answer because the answer is "it depends". You have pressure and skin drag to consider. A box will have more pressure drag than a radiator; however, it will have less skin drag. Modern high-end sports cars use this same style of radiator shutter to reduce drag at higher speeds where there is more cooling available. 

 

Ever wonder why boats/ships often have a flat back? that's because after a certain length the skin drag will increase such that it outweighs the reductions that could be made to the pressure drag by using a more graceful profile. 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

29 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

 

Yes, fluid dynamics says this is mostly the same as a plate over the front of said radiator. it's just different geometry of it. If air cant get out then air cant get in. 

 

 

Check the specs in IL-2 compare. The Yak-1 gains considerable speed from the rads, but the yak-7 only gains about 2-3 kph. I havent checked the actual IL-2. 

 

 

What will have more aerodynamic drag? a Box, or a radiator of equal frontal area? This doesnt have a definite answer because the answer is "it depends". You have pressure and skin drag to consider. A box will have more pressure drag than a radiator; however, it will have less skin drag. Modern high-end sports cars use this same style of radiator shutter to reduce drag at higher speeds where there is more cooling available. 

 

Ever wonder why boats/ships often have a flat back? that's because after a certain length the skin drag will increase such that it outweighs the reductions that could be made to the pressure drag by using a more graceful profile. 

 

So, in layman's terms, it's a similar effect to driving a pickup truck with the tailgate up vs. tailgate down?  It's been proven that it's actually more aerodynamic to have it up as the circulating air in the truck bed prevents the air over the top from going into the bed and dragging against the inside surface of the tailgate.  

 

I've never wondered about boats, but interesting point.  

 

Come to think of it, the Il-2 radiator drag might be a moot point.  Realistically, the engine settings were flown to accommodate the radiator settings, not the other way around - like other planes.  The flaps inside the box were there for armor.  Flying low at a moderate pace compared to other planes of the era was a surefire way to have every hostile ground soldier that thought they could get a lucky potshot on you letting off rounds in your general direction. It was no secret that the Il-2's radiator was a weak point, so keeping the slats as far closed as possible was necessary.  

We don't have small arms fire from individual soldiers, which could have popped up from unexpected places on-route to the target in-game. We only have fire from AAA emplacements, so flying with maximum non-damaging settings - which requires full open rads - to-and-from the target is a common thing in-game.   

 

I think my main point in the original post was that the level of thought and a detail like this, which could have been easily overlooked, put into the mission parameters and AI flight behavior was a really nice thing to see.  

Edited January 7, 2020 by Mobile_BBQ

[MikhaVT]

12 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

So, in layman's terms, it's a similar effect to driving a pickup truck with the tailgate up vs. tailgate down?  It's been proven that it's actually more aerodynamic to have it up as the circulating air in the truck bed prevents the air over the top from going into the bed and dragging against the inside surface of the tailgate.  

 

Kindof, the tailgate up mitigates pressure drag better than tailgate down, skin drag doesnt factor in. But as far as "weird shit in fluids" goes, it's right on the money!

 

As for the IL-2, i dont know how the radiator compares open vs closed for drag, it's even possible a partially open position might be the worst depending on the geometry and speed. 

 

If you want to get into even more radiator fun, there's the La-5 series which flys best with the inlet shutters open, and outlet cowlings closed (they still let some air out). Flying with the outlet cowling open slows it down so much it overheats! 

 

23 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

I think my main point in the original post was that the level of thought and a detail like this, which could have been easily overlooked, put into the mission parameters and AI flight behavior was a really nice thing to see.

 

My habit of overcooling before combat was raised in the game's career mode. This also raised a habit when i jumped into MP to not use full throttle and mixtures. It's really amazing how the devs have managed to model everything so well. 

[Lusekofte]

On 1/7/2020 at 2:51 PM, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

this is gold.

 

Btw, you can try Sea Dragons. I decided to give it a try few days ago and I can't believe I'm enjoying flying the IL2 that much, totally unexpected.

Sea dragons is excellent

On 1/7/2020 at 7:58 PM, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Thank you for saying so.  

 

That is a good suggestion.  I'm going to give it a go and start a Sea Dragons campaign sometime this week.  If QMB ship-borne AAA is any indicator of what I might be in for, I'm going to need a few hours of praying and meditation before each sortie.  lol 

You will struggle with Sea Dragoon if you get greedy and target fixated. But if you fly it as described in your report you will find it survivable. It got this balanced opposition , dangerous but not movie mission impossible dangerous. It ouse atmospheric realism

[40plus]

Agreed that Sea Dragon is excellent. I enjoyed every mission especially those from which I barely returned. Having to limp a stricken IL-2 over the coastal mountains with half its tail and one aileron gone had me sweating. 

 

Though, the final mission taxed by rig to its limits. 24fps, argh

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, pfrances said:

Though, the final mission taxed by rig to its limits. 24fps, argh

I had occasional struggle with low fps in that mission and some in Havoc over kuban. Anither campaign I dearly recommend. 
but when I flew sea dragons campaign second time I had no problems with FPS on last missions. And those in havoc campaign was also better. I d k if a patch has fixed it or something

[40plus]

18 minutes ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

I had occasional struggle with low fps in that mission and some in Havoc over kuban. Anither campaign I dearly recommend. 
but when I flew sea dragons campaign second time I had no problems with FPS on last missions. And those in havoc campaign was also better. I d k if a patch has fixed it or something

 

Well that's good to hear! 

I've been meaning to play though dragons again since I've upgraded my CPU.

[morron76]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:02 AM, Mobile_BBQ said:

After much time in multiplayer, I finally decided to give a single player campaign a go.

I'm glad to hear that....

 

After idly fooling around in career & QMB for like a year, made my first couple of forays into multiplayer a couple weeks ago.

Was having a blast, navigating by RRR, head on a swivel.....found the target, made too many passes.... heart's racing, heading for home at balls to the wall & rads closed (for god's sake, at least get over friendly lines & have a chance to belly in!!!)

And then out of the blue -- ping-pow-bing-BOOM! from my high 6:00;!! From what I learned after I hit the ground, was some guy named after a man-portable outdoor cooking device of some sort. Hehehe..was good times 

 

Anyways, right after my initiation to multiplayer, I got the scripted campaigns on sale & they're pretty darn nice. Havoc I especially enjoyed, along with Sea Dragons.

 

On 1/7/2020 at 10:58 AM, Mobile_BBQ said:

I'm going to give it a go and start a Sea Dragons campaign sometime this week.  If QMB ship-borne AAA is any indicator of what I might be in for, I'm going to need a few hours of praying and meditation before each sortie.  lol 

 

Nope, it's nowhere near as murderous. For example -- fun mission up in the kerch strait, plenty of targets but not CIWS-level AAA like QMB. Just enough to make you set up properly for a good low risk gun run or two, & then jink like crazy all the way all the way out & book it for home. So far, all of them are really nicely done.