Blackouts due to shock need to be re-worked.

[Lusekofte]

4 hours ago, danielprates said:

 I get it now. What you are suggesting, which I agree, is that the injury model should factor in more variables and inputs, and also, more types of resulting effects, and tweaking duration of said effects.

Is this not whats lacking in all systems this software got, lack of parameters. I feel I have to say this every time I am negative, I love flying in this sim, but its simplified way of dealing with complicated systems is the main problem when it comes to engine parameters/ handeling. 

I am willing to live by these Law of physics as long as I knowit is game engine limitations. If it is not, I find it hard all these things continue to be over looked

[SCG_Wulfe]

10 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

This is difficult, I am not able to say wether it is realistic or off. 
My feelings is when you combine PK and this effect I feel it happens a lot. 
I do not think that feeling is enough in order to change it. Feelings have not yet made any changes in this game

This is not based on feelings. This is based on real life trauma medicine studies and my own personal experience. 
 

Here, start with this article about stopping power. (Ballistic injury that is enough to stop an attacker from continuing their attacks)

 

https://www.policemag.com/374542/a-trauma-surgeon-talks-about-wound-ballistics-and-stopping-power

 

then this video about stopping power from high velocity rifle rounds.

 

https://youtu.be/Dr7dpEDNNC4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[danielprates]

I think this subject is similar to the eternal "dewinging" discussion. In real life things happen in a certain periodicity, but the way the game computes then randomizes the same phenomenon leads to different odds of it happening, as compared to RL numbers.

 

Its not a game breaker for me; I do wish though that being hit 10 times didn't just result another 5 seconds of blackout.

[SCG_Wulfe]

12 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

I think what is being modeled here is not loss of consciousness from splinter wounds, but concussion from blast from close HE hits, which is an entirely real effect quite independent of whether you get hit by a projectile.  Not saying it is modeled right, but there are two separate effects to consider. 

 

The mechanism you suggest for hits is all pretty much how RoF managed wound effects IIRC, plus heartbeat sounds. (Or was that RB3D?)  Which is fine for those cases where you are hit by a bullet or shell splinter. 

 

 

That’s exactly it though. In real life you do not get knocked out from a concussion blast from an HE cannon round, even one that blows up right beside you. There is simply not that kind of explosive power in it. Human bodies are actually remarkably resilient to blast damage, more so than most any structure.  Further your brain is actually very well insulated from blast pressure. 
 

from: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions_on_human_health

 

Blast effects — the initial stageEdit

Immediate post-attack periodEdit

 

 

The main causes of death and disablement in this state are thermal burns and the failure of structures resulting from the blast effect. Injury from the pressure wave is minimal in contrast because the human body can survive up to 2 bar (30 psi) while most buildings can only withstand a 0.8 bar (12 psi) blast. Therefore, the fate of humans is closely related to the survival of the buildings around them.^[7]

 

3 minutes ago, danielprates said:

I think this subject is similar to the eternal "dewinging" discussion. In real life things happen in a certain periodicity, but the way the game computes then randomizes the same phenomenon leads to different odds of it happening, as compared to RL numbers.

 

Its not a game breaker for me; I do wish though that being hit 10 times didn't just result another 5 seconds of blackout.

If it is truly just based on a random outcome, that is too bad. But if it must be, it must be.

However, they need to entirely remove the chance for blackout due to close proximity explosive blasts that cause injury which they have specifically mentioned that they have left in according to the patch notes.

[Lusekofte]

To me this is no issue at all. 
We fly a P 47 made of glass. And simplified engine parameters really set the line on how things will be. The overall complexity level is set. 
And here is the forum filled with topics demanding medical and science report on physics. 
It must be a joke, fly within the boundaries the game has. The developers might read this and tweak it, or not. 
When I realized that this is how it is, I bought 

VR and start enjoying what we have to the fullest. Your ambitions for this game is admirable, but in the other end people say this game is too expencive. 
If I got it the way I wanted every plane would cost the same as one Battle series
 

[SCG_Wulfe]

2 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

To me this is no issue at all. 
We fly a P 47 made of glass. And simplified engine parameters really set the line on how things will be. The overall complexity level is set. 
And here is the forum filled with topics demanding medical and science report on physics. 
It must be a joke, fly within the boundaries the game has. The developers might read this and tweak it, or not. 
When I realized that this is how it is, I bought 

VR and start enjoying what we have to the fullest. Your ambitions for this game is admirable, but in the other end people say this game is too expencive. 
If I got it the way I wanted every plane would cost the same as one Battle series
 

 

Yep you’re right, game is perfect. No sense making any suggestions or improvements for them to work on....

 

Frankly the pilot damage system we had prior to this splash damage blackout thing was better. No resources would be required to go back to that.

[Lusekofte]

1 minute ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Yep you’re right, game is perfect. No sense making any suggestions or improvements for them to work on....

Yes that was exactly what I wrote. 
you even took the time quoting my post without reading it. 
Or you tried to put a meaning that was not there. 
If improvements was to be made in this game, 

is it really the set parameters on physics set equal to all , you would prioritize? 
You must think everything in this game follow law of physics and planes are realistic in every way in order to think that

[SCG_Wulfe]

20 minutes ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

Yes that was exactly what I wrote. 
you even took the time quoting my post without reading it. 
Or you tried to put a meaning that was not there. 
If improvements was to be made in this game, 

is it really the set parameters on physics set equal to all , you would prioritize? 
You must think everything in this game follow law of physics and planes are realistic in every way in order to think that

What I would prioritize is undoing the mistake they just made in the last patch with the pilot damage, which was modelled  better before they altered it.

 

the suggestions I made in the original post were simple ways to improve upon the system using the current game engine without any complex coding.

 

If that is too hard, then they should just remove the blackout effect. It’s not realistic and it messes up gameplay.

Edited January 4, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[unreasonable]

10 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

If it is truly just based on a random outcome, that is too bad. But if it must be, it must be.

 

However, they need to entirely remove the chance for blackout due to close proximity explosive blasts that cause injury which they have specifically mentioned that they have left in according to the patch notes.

 

I am not actually disagreeing with you: the problem is that the developers have been deluged with complaints from people who get HE hits near the cockpit and then nothing happens, which is apparently regarded as unacceptable, RNG be damned.  So they put in a "concussion bubble" to appease this lobby, later modified to only affect pilots that were also hit by splinters, according to the update notes. Now we have a "no concussion bubble" lobby who have been PKed wanting it removed.     

 

Unfortunately we have no easy way to do controlled testing to check results in the game quantitatively, and hardly anyone who attempts tests understands that it is not OK to just do a few runs until you get the results you want, and then stop. So we are left with the various lobbies all cherry picking their examples from MP or selected tests and engaged in the usual hyperbole, hoping the squeaky wheel gets the grease.     

[SCG_Wulfe]

10 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

I am not actually disagreeing with you: the problem is that the developers have been deluged with complaints from people who get HE hits near the cockpit and then nothing happens, which is apparently regarded as unacceptable, RNG be damned.  So they put in a "concussion bubble" to appease this lobby, later modified to only affect pilots that were also hit by splinters, according to the update notes. Now we have a "no concussion bubble" lobby who have been PKed wanting it removed.     

 

Unfortunately we have no easy way to do controlled testing to check results in the game quantitatively, and hardly anyone who attempts tests understands that it is not OK to just do a few runs until you get the results you want, and then stop. So we are left with the various lobbies all cherry picking their examples from MP or selected tests and engaged in the usual hyperbole, hoping the squeaky wheel gets the grease.     

Fair enough, though as mentioned, this blackout when you have a shell concussion blast beside you is entirely unrealistic, at all times. If they wanted to leave their entire infrastructure intact with minimal changes to create a more realistic experience, all they would have to do is swap the blackout effect for a blurred eyes, ears ringing, harder control effect. Leave the same odds and triggers for it that are currently present.

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

On 1/3/2020 at 3:03 PM, SCG_motoadve said:

I also fly real airplanes  3 to 4 times per week, military trainer CJ 6 , pull Gs and think what is modeled is ts great.

Best addition to the game, no more UFO unrealistic and  incredible moves.

Air combat is more interesting and realistic.

 

When we do aerobatics we anticipate and prepare for the maneuver, in combat you are not planning a routine of maneuvers, at attacking or defending you are improvising on the go, and that does make a big difference.

Also the speeds most of the time are almost double of a Yak 52 or CJ 6 doing aerobatics.

 

Hope developers dont change this, most people seem to like it.

The issue with things like G-lock in Sims is you can't feel it come on like you can in the real world that's why I've never liked such things being modeled. Because with out feeling or a G meter how can I tell how hard I'm pulling...

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

you can see it coming if you fly normally like a plane would fly you slowly start to black out 

if you pulling stick so fast that black happens in like 250ms going from 1G to 8+G then Pilot would have more issues than just blacking out.