Why you are still not in VR in 2020?

[chiliwili69]

About a year ago I created a similar poll.

Now with new VR devices I wanted to know what the IL-2 players think about it.

Choose just one answer that fits better for you.

Edited January 2, 2020 by chiliwili69

[unreasonable]

Pedantry alert:  

 

Not sure that the answer "I already spend most of my IL-2 time in VR" really belongs in a poll titled "Why you are not still in VR in 2020?"

I think you mean "still not", BTW, "not still" implies that you were but have given it up.

 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Still waiting a bit for VR to get better.

[BB5000]

It’s not working with my current control setup (MFDs with buttons, custom panel, throttle quadrant etc)..need to see stuff. The day I can click inside the virtual cockpit , I’ll consider it. I guess that I’ll get VR anyway for racing games at some point.

Edited January 2, 2020 by BB5000

[chiliwili69]

4 hours ago, unreasonable said:

Not sure that the answer "I already spend most of my IL-2 time in VR" really belongs in a poll titled "Why you are not still in VR in 2020?"

 

You are right... but... I wanted to kill two birds in a row... first to know the reasons... second to know the people who is in VR

[Redwo1f]

Wish we could make multiple choices - for me #1, #2, and possibly #7 (idk if it will give me motion sickness or not (?) as can happen with a few games with me). - but absolutely for right now, it is far too expensive a self-indulgence and I can live just fine without it

[CanadaOne]

Multiple herniated disks in my neck from work. I'm susceptible to getting dizzy, and I'm sure VR would do it.

[Gambit21]

Because I don't want it.

Too much money, too low res, too much of a performance hit.

[WheelwrightPL]

Once IL2 has clickable cockpit I will give VR a shot, because with such a cockpit I can simply click on secondary buttons using some sort of VR pointer (or maybe even a mouse ?).

However currently all of those buttons (dozens and dozens of them) need to be bound to HOTAS and one has to be a world-class pianist to BLINDLY remember them all.

Right now I am waiting for DCS to enhance their destruction physics and to fully implement an improved Normandy map. Once this is done, I will probably try VR in DCS, as I cannot see IL2 as a viable VR option in the foreseeable future.

Edited January 3, 2020 by WheelwrightPL

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I found my reason

 

"I tested IL-2 VR with latest devices (Rift-S, Reverb, Index, Odyssey+, Pimax5K+ or 8K) but it didn´t convince me the VR device, so waiting for future better VR generations"

Edited January 3, 2020 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[RedKestrel]

This is one of those polls that may just have too many options to be useful, and yet not enough to reflect everyone's specific reasoning.

Maybe something more like

"What is the primary reason you don't fly in VR?"
 

-Medical concerns (motion sickness, back problems, etc.)
-Cost of Headset and upgrades
-VR Performance issues
-I Just don't like VR

Right now with so many options, and with a couple options duplicating each other, its hard to get a good general read on why people aren't flying in VR. Plus, this answer would be useful in identifying the main general barrier to entry

For me, its a combination of cost to get a good headset and acceptable performance, and the fact that VR gaming is just not well suited for my living situation.

[Barnacles]

For me I fly in VR regularly, but whilst I find some aspects of it more immersive than a monitor, there's aspects of VR which are immersion breaking, such as limited FOV, screen door effect, and the fact that you have to compromise on level of detail to prevent immersion breaking lowering of frame rate. I find using a monitor can be very immersive too. I guess the level of immersiveness is entirely subjective, rather like some people can be immersed in a book, which after all is just text on a page and some people eschew the written word in favour of moving pictures.

[SharpeXB]

VR does not perform well enough, especially in other flight sims like DCS or won’t be implemented at all (yet?) in MSFS2020

I’m not certain that VR will ever perform well in complex sims like this  Even today’s strongest hardware is not capable of running these games without having reprojection constantly utilized. And the resolution of the headsets is too low at this point. Games only evolve to become more and more demanding and it’s likely that VR hardware will not be able to keep up compared to 2D. Maybe someday I’ll try it but those issues will have to be resolved. 

 

[Sgt_Joch]

5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

VR does not perform well enough, especially in other flight sims like DCS

 

VR works perfectly in DCS, better than IL2 in fact.

 

If you actually played VR, you would know this.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Sgt_Joch

[DD_Arthur]

37 minutes ago, Sgt_Joch said:

VR works perfectly in DCS, better than IL2 in fact.

 

Hmmmmm...........

[SharpeXB]

37 minutes ago, Sgt_Joch said:

 

VR works perfectly in DCS, better than IL2 in fact.

 

If you actually played VR, you would know this.

See why do people make polls like this if they only want to hear good things about VR?

By many accounts VR in DCS seems terrible. Most early adopters just turn a blind eye to all the problems. 
Look at this thread “Goodbye to VR” by someone with a 9700K and a 2080Ti who can’t get decent performance. 
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=259335

One thing I do believe is when people say once they try it they can’t go back to a monitor. That makes me not even want to try VR

 

That should be another choice in the poll “What I read about VR makes me never want to try it”

[bzc3lk]

55 minutes ago, Sgt_Joch said:

 

VR works perfectly in DCS, better than IL2 in fact.

 

If you actually played VR, you would know this.

 

With 35 pages of different threads relating to problems people are experiencing using VR in DCS, I find this blanket statement wishfull thinking  at best.

These 35 pages add up to  nearly 700 threads started concerning issues people are having with DCS and VR, it is pretty clear that VR doesn't work "perfectly" in DCS.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by bzc3lk

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Hmmmmm...........

Funny because people in DCS say that IL-2 works better

See how is anyone to know the truth about all this? Performs “well” seems to be so subjective in VR. On a monitor good performance isn’t subjective. It has a clear definition. 

[DD_Arthur]

13 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Funny because people in DCS say that IL-2 works better

See how is anyone to know the truth about all this? Performs “well” seems to be so subjective in VR. On a monitor good performance isn’t subjective. It has a clear definition. 

 

I fly both in VR and I'd say IL2 performs noticeably better than DCS in VR.  You are quite correct;  all this - including monitor performance - is completely subjective.

 

My personal idea of 'good' or 'better' in the context of VR is whether we are being delivered a smooth, stutter free performance.  As far as I'm concerned by my own definition IL2 is superior.  DCS seems to suffer from some inconsistencies;  in VR certain maps perform better than others and some planes perform better than others too! 

 

I maintain that comparisons between 2D screens and VR are meaningless.  They are two very different ways to enjoy the same game.

 

1 hour ago, Sgt_Joch said:

If you actually played VR, you would know this.

 

Er....the title of this poll is 'Why you are still not in VR in 2020?'  Whether we like it or not SharpeXB has been invited to give his opinion.  It seems to me reasonable to assume that the majority of people who are still not in VR in 2020 haven't actually played in VR either.

[unlikely_spider]

For me, many reasons. The hardware/software set up, not seeing my keyboard, the heaviness and sweatiness, lack of peripheral vision, smaller resolution, and motion sickness. I like TrackIR and have an amazing g-sync ultrawide monitor that I love. I'm one of those who has tried VR and has gone back.

[Gambit21]

On 1/2/2020 at 5:00 PM, WheelwrightPL said:

Once IL2 has clickable cockpit...

 

Not happening.

[DD_Arthur]

9 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Not happening.

 

Good!

[[CPT]Crunch]

Switched sims, won't be back till the spotting issues close in are dealt with. 

[Sgt_Joch]

13 hours ago, bzc3lk said:

 

With 35 pages of different threads relating to problems people are experiencing using VR in DCS, I find this blanket statement wishfull thinking  at best.

These 35 pages add up to  nearly 700 threads started concerning issues people are having with DCS and VR, it is pretty clear that VR doesn't work "perfectly" in DCS.

 

 

you are basing your opinion on what other people wrote on an Internet forum? In my experience 90% of posters have unrealistic expectations, have an ax to grind or are noobs that do not understand their hardware.

 

I bought the Mirage 2000 a few months back, with no tweaking whatsoever, I can play the game at max in game graphics (and higher pixel density than in IL2) with no fps slowdown in VR. Plus DCS lets me skip SteamVR natively and just use the Oculus software. Plus I can interact with the cockpit using the VR hand controllers. So yes, based on my experience, VR is better implemented and works better in DCS.

 

13 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Er....the title of this poll is 'Why you are still not in VR in 2020?'  Whether we like it or not SharpeXB has been invited to give his opinion.  It seems to me reasonable to assume that the majority of people who are still not in VR in 2020 haven't actually played in VR either.

 

you are correct of course, SharpeXB is perfectly entitled to give his opinion on subjects he knows nothing about......

Edited January 4, 2020 by Sgt_Joch

[9./JG27golani79]

Voted other:

Tried the Rift S but unfotunately it is unsuitable for my IPD - so now I´ve got the Quest but I need to wait for the Link cable to get available here in Europe.

Other options were a bit too expensive for me atm as I only start to get into VR I thought about an entry level solution which is given with the Oculus products.

Edited January 4, 2020 by 9./JG27golani79

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Sgt_Joch said:

I bought the Mirage 2000 a few months back, with no tweaking whatsoever, I can play the game at max in game graphics (and higher pixel density than in IL2) with no fps slowdown in VR.

Then your experience differs greatly from just about everyone else in DCS. “No fps slowdown in VR”? No slowdown compared to what? In which situations? Free flight? Do you get a constant 90 FPS with “max game graphics”?

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

SharpeXB is perfectly entitled to give his opinion on subjects he knows nothing about......

I’ve probably mentioned this before but I use VR professionally as an architect. 
 

I can also read. It doesn’t seem the future of VR is very certain which is a factor on me holding back on it for gaming 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by SharpeXB

[Sgt_Joch]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Then your experience differs greatly from just about everyone else in DCS. 

 

Well no, again you are making a factually incorrect statement, not surprising since you do not play DCS in VR or in fact any games in VR as I understand.

 

I know several VR players that have no issue at all in DCS. Given the nature of the internet, only players that have problems post their issues on forums. The vast majority of players that have no issues just play the game. Unless you are being intentionally obtuse, you should know this. 

 

I have being computer gaming long enough to know when a game is efficiently programmed or not. The DCS devs much like the IL2 devs have invested a lot of time and effort in optimizing the VR experience in the past few years and the results are showing. At this point, DCS is farther along in this area than IL2, but given the improvement I have seen in IL2 in just the past year,  I have no doubt it will catch up.

[SharpeXB]

19 minutes ago, Sgt_Joch said:

At this point, DCS is farther along in this area than IL2, but given the improvement I have seen in IL2 in just the past year,  I have no doubt it will catch up.

Interesting because many people on DCS say the opposite. 
This thread was a poll asking why people don’t use VR in IL-2, so you’ve got my answer. Fair enough. 

[Creep]

Because of the nature of individuals’ PC components, the VR headset they are using, and the multitude of software settings which can be manipulated, it is no surprise to me that people are in disagreement over performance. I wonder how much of an impact it has to cut SteamVR out of the equation in DCS? That is a variable that cannot be altered by those with WMR headsets.

[Lusekofte]

On 1/3/2020 at 1:32 AM, CanadaOne said:

Multiple herniated disks in my neck from work. I'm susceptible to getting dizzy, and I'm sure VR would do it.

A Rift S is not heavy. And I did really expect airsickness using it. Had only problems while taxiing. In the start that is. Abd when I tipped the wings sideways from and back multiple times. But if youre ok without VR I reccomend not trying it

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I chose other.  I have owned an HMD for about a year and continue to come back to IL-2 to test it when new software and firmware come out.  To date the issue is losing head tracking while flying.  I believe this results from SteamVR crashing.

 

When it works it's enjoyable...  It just doesn't last.

 

In the meantime I use  a monitor.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Mr-Bluesky]

I have had vr since dk2 fist came out, I can never go back, the most important thing is ram 32 gigs is a must for dcs, 16g is fine for sturmovik

next is graphic card ,cant say on any other than nvidia 1070gtx is fine ..if u have 32gig of ram, but 1080 or higher is the way to go,

yes I know these are expensive but the pay off is worth it.

the problem for me was steam vr was conflicting with occulus, so i just use the stand alone versions now problem solved.

For me dcs should stick to jets and sturmovik to props  just my opinon, each have there place and with out both competing against each other for sales and fan loyalty there quality would deminish,the bar is set very high ,well done, they have both come along way from the early days.

as for the the fans who have bought DLC and waiting for updates, sure they are fustraited, one thing you have to remember it is a business and all businesses have to have ongoing cashflow, the more dlc the more maintaince and updates required these dont get  new revenue  so in order to suvive new DLC have to be done.

For me ive spent over  $2k us on DLC not to mention all my joystick ,rudder pedals and VR sets. I will keep on supporting these great titles, as for my enjoyment and pasion for aircraft takes me as close I can get to the real thing,

so to all the devs a BIG THXS.... keep it real, keep the dream alive

Edited January 5, 2020 by Mr-Bluesky
spelling

[CanadaOne]

2 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

A Rift S is not heavy. And I did really expect airsickness using it. Had only problems while taxiing. In the start that is. Abd when I tipped the wings sideways from and back multiple times. But if youre ok without VR I reccomend not trying it

 

It's not the weight, it's the rapid head movements I would imagine are required with VR when you are looking around. That wouldn't be good.

 

I'd like a TrackIR but those buggers at Amazon have upped the price to $290. That's nuts.

[Mr-Bluesky]

I dont have any problems with head movement,  or shuddering frame rates I have occulus s now, and my neck can get sore turning like an owl backwards but hey real pilots have the same problem . with head phones and head set is well balance I play 4hours or more with no probs.

Track IR ro me is a bit unreal to have ure head slightly look right or left to see 180 behind you is not natural. and then have camera lose track.

I got VR cause i wanted full imersion, just missing  a suit that compresses ure body to act like g forces

Have u thought of making a Track IR with a cheap ps3 camera, my mate did it for less than 100 dollars if ure funds are low ?

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Mr-Bluesky
spelling

[unlikely_spider]

41 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

It's not the weight, it's the rapid head movements I would imagine are required with VR when you are looking around. That wouldn't be good.

 

I'd like a TrackIR but those buggers at Amazon have upped the price to $290. That's nuts.

?

I see them on Amazon and on the TrackIR website for $150 US. Are they that different in the great white north?

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

 

It's not the weight, it's the rapid head movements I would imagine are required with VR when you are looking around. That wouldn't be good.

 

I'd like a TrackIR but those buggers at Amazon have upped the price to $290. That's nuts.

I got a track ir you can have for free

[ST_Catchov]

I'm just not that interested. Trackir suits me fine. Maybe one day. Maybe not.

 

 

[CanadaOne]

1 hour ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

I got a track ir you can have for free

 

 

That's awfully generous, but I think we're on different continents. It's mighty kind of you though.

1 hour ago, unlikely_spider said:

?

I see them on Amazon and on the TrackIR website for $150 US. Are they that different in the great white north?

 

$1 or yours is about $1.30 of ours, and prices are often higher here anyway even after the exchange. And then add 15% tax. That puts a TrackIR at about $340.

 

Amazon Canada had them at $190 last summer, now it's $290. They can stuff it!

[bzc3lk]

13 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

 

you are basing your opinion on what other people wrote on an Internet forum? In my experience 90% of posters have unrealistic expectations, have an ax to grind or are noobs that do not understand their hardware.

 

.

 

No opinion needed , the fact still remains 700 threads were created by various paying customers with problems related to a sim that you claimed played VR "perfectly" and then dismiss them as "noobs or "have an axe to grind" when it doesn't suite your narrative. Maybe you should have really stated that "VR works perfectly for me in DCS, better than IL2 in fact"

 

 "In your experience 90% of customers have unrealistic  expectations". Two things here , how did you arrive at the 90% figure? A guess I would say  and the "unrealistic expectations" is only your opinion and that is a fact.

 

I'm certainly glad I don't have the above mind set when people come on to the forums seeking information concerning issues and just put them in the"noobs","unrealistic expectations" or "have an axe to grind" category because I don't have issues.

Edited January 5, 2020 by bzc3lk